(697) Tucker defends Steven Crowder in spat with YouTube
An excelent point, and remeber, Google own YouTube, and are protected under the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (brought to you by Bill Clinton). Still believe there is no deep state?
SOURCE URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86qD8CINGM
Typical hypocritical statist and neo-liberal actions by the digital elite.
We may disagree with YouTube but their rights to do so must be protected.
Anyone failing to do so, is the one on the side of statist, censorship and control. Among numerous other rights violations.
If you want to understand what Ayn Rand said about anti-trust read "America's Persecuted Minority: Big Business" in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.
You should read Ayn Rand's non-fiction to understand the philosophy that made Atlas Shrugged possible.
Taking my tax dollars to help develope the business. Their censorship should be illegal.
"Funding by DARPA" is irrelevant. DARPA is not responsible for google. If any technology that received government funding at some point in its development were grounds for denying all subsequent private ownership then government would be in complete control and there would be no freedom of speech left for anyone.
Definition of censor (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
: to examine in order to suppress (see SUPPRESS sense 2) or delete anything considered objectionable
censor the news
also : to suppress or delete as objectionable
censor out indecent passages
Examples of censor in a Sentence
Noun
Government censors deleted all references to the protest.
Verb
The station censored her speech before broadcasting it.
Censorship is a political/legal concept. Mixing private action with government action in an invalid concept in the form of a package deal, leading to such absurdities as the rationalizations for government control of private companies contrary to the First Amendment.
EWV by station do they mean Government?
When I looked up station , Government was not mentioned.
Maybe the EWV-Peter Smith dictionary should be published.
These tech companies are afforded protection from being sued for the content of their site because they claim to be a platform not a content provider like a news paper or news organization.
Yet they take that protection and still act as an editor. You cannot have it both ways.
The argument used would force a christian baker to provide a cake with a message denigrating his view of marriage, otherwise he is 'censoring'.
It is correct to say, the tech companies have substantial legal protection as they are a provider, on top of that they suppress views they don't like under the guise of stopping hate speech, the public good, or whatever they may call it. Altruism again is used as a cover to promote self-interest.
But if private property cannot be used for promoting views and interests of owners, then, well, .. .
To attack the hypocrisy, theft and lies of big tech the approaches are-
avoid using, make their misdeeds more public, seek legal avenues such as remove special legal protection they have but small competitors do not, go for their breaches of contracts (legal systems recognize understood contracts), illegal snooping, misuse of private data. If you go the way of imposing a regulator you will get something that has built-in organic growth and you will not be able to control or stop it.
(I have used pragmatic type arguments, the Objectivist position should be obvious).
Your issue is that you want to sue them for things that can't rightly be sued for and you want laws changed to help accommodate this.
All because they disagree with you politically.
In other words, you want to censor those you disagree with while claiming to be fighting censorship.
Only conservatives can be this completely confused about everything.
Providing a platform for the purpose chosen by the owner does not in logic necessarily make the owner responsible for libelous material created by a user, especially with no chance for the forum owner to remove it only after investigation. Abusing libel law to intimidate a forum is unethical, statist control. Under conservative populist controls forums such as this one could not exist.
Uh, I am pretty sure that is the point we are making. Thanks for agreeing. Good job.
The funding should never have been granted; that it was is not an excuse to control those benefited into the future. This is analogous the Soviet Union refusing to let people out because they received the 'benefit' of Soviet public education.
http://fortune.com/2014/08/14/google-...
http://themillenniumreport.com/2017/0...
Funny, the connection is well know, even in 2012:
https://www.naturalnews.com/036889_Fa...
https://images.app.goo.gl/2c34FebSu11...
Wonder if you were protecting their "rights" so intensely had it been implemented to benefit the other side?
No, that's called, "free speech."
It's also property rights, freedom of association and individual rights in general.
Only the government can censor you.
NONSENSE!!
Free speech. Private property.
It may be easier to define the negatives:
Free speech is not a defense or a license when-
shouting fire in a crowded theater, giving instructions on blowing up a school, releasing private information on a private person, releasing secured information on the military of your government, copyright breaches, ..
Private property stops when in trade with the public, but if a baker clearly states they are of some religion then they may restrict trade to conform with the intentions of that religion, eg- trade on their sabbath day, if they say they are a bread-maker then no customer may demand a cake, can they be forced to sell a loaf to an idolator or covertor? Now if they say they are private bakers, with no public open hours, then all restrictions are ok.
A Prespertumpian church or declared business, can insist on a preacher who is, but can they refuse to employ a cleaner who is not? If they advertise in the public arena then no such discrimination, if all positions are filled only by invitation, then ok.
Going back to that baker, yes they were open to the public, but their religion was stated. It was clear in the trial that the agitators did not select that baker on price, skill, value, convenience or on anything except to make trouble, they only went to that baker because a religion was declared.
Now Gurgel acts more like a well-funded agitator than a small business baker.
Freedom of speech is a political concept that pertains only to government interference. There is no Constitutional right to use someone else's forum to broadcast anything you want to regardless of the standards and purpose of the owner. That is the general principle https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...
Point 2. 'no right to use '. Yes yes! My memory is that the agitator wanted a slogan on the cake, the baker accepted that customer but objected that he was required to write out the slogan thereby becoming a mouthpiece for ideas contrary to his own standards and purpose.
Personally, if I were in the bakery business I'd have made the cake. I'm in business to make money legally and I really don't care who you are... show me the green and we're good to go.
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechc...
It claims a change, but that change was not against them, it actually enhanced their ability to censor.
The key thing is to not think of them as just a corporate entity, but to think of them as having done a bait and switch: "we will let you create a life based on making money and speaking your mind, and presenting material, freely, and now we have you hooked, we will blackmail you by cutting off your money and livelihood if you say the wrong thing, or we don't like it". They started the service with rules in place, and now people who have NOT violated their rules, are found to be guilty of unspoken crimes, and turned off. That is not free speech, that is censorship.
Now, as afar as "Go somewhere else". How big is Google? How much control do they exert on search and information? So, you start a competing platform, and how much exposure will you get? Have you ever looked an any search engine besides Google? Do a search and look at the lower left corner as it goes through the 8000 little connections and cookies and trackers and what all and 80% will have "Google" in them. Google has expanded into everything, and controls probably 80% or more of the information you can find. They are the controllers of what you will get. So, go start up your new platform, no one will ever find it.
No shoes, no shirt, no service .. for or against, does/should the business have the right to discriminate like that? In arguing ignore law, consider the philosophy.
Google has a near complete monopoly, I do not use it directly but it is next to impossible to avoid as (most of) the search engines I use in turn use google. Same situation for the other mega-techs. If you do not use them, you are not quite an outcast but are a social misfit.
The question is, should governments have the power to intervene to enable me to bypass those mega-techs, or have the power to modify the parts of their behavior that I (in practice, government regulators) do not like? Is it a right of a citizen to have a choice when only one corporation provides a service out of its inventiveness? Once monopoly is established it is real hard for competitors to break-in. But it happened to IBM and Microsoft.
There may be a way to get them under the heading of contract violations, they make the user agree that they can do anything. I am unconvinced that harassment, ultra-biased search results, victimization of users because of opinions, etc. is covered by the 'anything'.
This is the chickens coming home to roost for conservatives relying on "tradition". Yesterday's liberal is today's conservative, following in line.
These tech companies can discriminate as well. If they do, they create a niche that their replacement can fill.
Yes it can. At no point do you lose your rights, unless you've violated the rights of others, which being a successful business, does not do.
"Restaurants open to the public can't discriminate by race or religion, etc."
But they should be able to. This is an example of affirmative action going too far.
Those of us who are actually right wing, should be fighting for individual rights, not using existing rights violations to justify EVEN MORE rights violations.
It's you who is using false logic by trying to equate private enterprise with government.
Private forums on the internet do have guidelines, including this one, and offenders have been removed (but not enough). If someone doesn't like it he can leave. Few bother to stay for a discussion when the purpose of a forum is subverted by burying proper posts in a sea of garbage tolerated by the owner who put a lot of effort into creating a forum for a stated purpose.
Your argument "But they should be able to..." is well taken and understood, but lets not resurrect the old Jim Crow system of business. It didn't work out very well.
Yes I understand that. I'm saying any law that prevents private enterprise from discriminating for any reason, is a leftist, rights violating law that I oppose.
"Your argument "But they should be able to..." is well taken and understood, but lets not resurrect the old Jim Crow system of business"
I'm not saying we do that.
I'm saying that the GOVERNMENT cannot discriminate because it's role is to protect rights.
Private enterprise is not government and can do as it pleases.
I'm saying don't equate government action with private action as those are two completely different things.
You haven't observed any lack of understanding that could easily be researched and corrected from me.
This is amusing projection on your part.
"You mistate the position, no one is saying that the government control google, beyond making them follow their terms of service and their contract, and not censor people because of their message."
You don't get to dictate what their terms of service are or how they choose to enforce them. That would be "government control google."
Also, as has been explained, google cannot "censor" anyone. You still haven't understood how to use that term correctly.
Only the government can censor.
In short, you have a complete lack of understanding that you could easily research and correct.
Thanks and Peace to Q🗽
“A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.”
But in these days programmed AIs are in control of the censoring, And they have been judging and executing their sentencing without trial.
“Please be seated Dave.”
We can understand the distinction between private and government action, but Zuckerberg and facebook do not, which obscures and confuses defense of facebook's rights when not done carefully.
On this particular issue, conservatives are actually advocating for regulating tech companies because they disagree with them politically.
In other words, to censor them.
All the while advocating that they are fighting censorship.
What makes this worse is not that they are trying to trick anyone, but that they are doing this simply because they don't understand the concepts involved at all.
Yes.
It's also called, "free speech."
It's also called "freedom of association."
It's also called "property rights."
And just individual rights in general.
I'm actually speechless by what you've written here and wouldn't even know where to begin.
You simply have to start at the very beginning and learn how we arrive at rights protecting government and why, learn what the difference is between state and private action and why, then go from there.
There's really nothing more I can say to you on this topic.
Right, but then you're describing yourself.
I can't up vote because the religious leftists that seem to be dominant on this Objectivist forum have down voted me so much.
This means they are calling for censorship.
Among numerous other leftist rights violations.
This position has never changed, so not sure what you think is flip flopping
Some of their posts sound less like an Ayn Rand forum than John Kenneth Galbraith in the 1960s and 70s. Such is the 'tradition' that has become ingrained.
That the First Amendment pertains only to restrictions by government is fundamental and not new. Conservatives used to understand that. Now they are package-dealing government action with private action to rationalize controlling private companies in the name of what used to be common understanding of freedom of speech and the fact that censorship is wrong.
Conservatives and liberals share a common principle: they each want to control what they regard as important.
Google, YouTube, FB, are not there to uphold First Amendment rights.
It is the same censorship as banning speakers from campus who have a different view that the left espouses.
If they just told everyone that the climate is changing and the earth would end in 12 years and only Global Socialism could save us all, maybe they would have gotten enough fools to believe them and the world will be speaking German.
If you say yes, I got a bridge to sell you, cheap.
Sounds like a leftist dream.
Immunity from legal liability for libelous actions by individuals who use the platform is not a "privilege". If companies were held legally liable for actions of customers no one could be in business.
Tech companies kicking people off their property will NEVER be censorship.
Down voting things that shouldn't even need to be explained.