Brown (Moonbeam) signs carbon free bill by 2045

Posted by exceller 6 years, 2 months ago to Politics
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He said before signing it that he won't do it b/c the infrastructure is not ready for it. But apparently he changed his mind. The only question is: where will the power come from which is needed to "Plug cars" into?

At this point he probably does not care. He is leaving soon and he wanted this to be his legacy, next to the high speed train. The left are legacy minded like Hussein. Never mind that legacy is pushing many people into poverty.
SOURCE URL: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-10/california-s-brown-signs-bill-for-carbon-free-power-by-2045


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  • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 2 months ago
    This can't happen without becoming dependent on China. Just like Google ,the Clintons ,Biden's and Kerry along with Feinstien ,and moonbeam they are selling out to China.
    California would need to install more than 200 times as much energy-storage capacity than it has now to make up for the loss of gas plants, according to the Clean Air Task Force, a Boston-based energy-policy nonprofit.
    China leads the world in the development of battery gigafactories, which are expected to reduce battery storage costs through increasing economies of scale (Figure 15). As of 2018, 25 large battery factories are active worldwide, and 36 are in development. By 2023, China is expected to have 52 percent of worldwide lithium-ion battery capacity, with Europe at 17 percent, the rest of Asia at 17 percent, and North America at 14 percent.
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    • Posted by Lucky 6 years, 2 months ago
      Yes, China will be the biggest maker of batteries.
      But, like wind generators, they have the sense not to use those contraptions themselves but sell them to the rest of us helping to weaken our economies.
      China has 300 up-to-date technology coal power stations under construction. They have twenty-one nuclear reactors under construction, thirty-eight more are planned.
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      • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 2 months ago
        That's one of many reasons why Trump nixed the Paris Accord. The nation and Kalifornia would be better off if Moonbeam would take a tumor pill like no name did.
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    • Posted by term2 6 years, 2 months ago
      I wonder who is going to pay for all these batteries. Car batteries are about $80 for VERY limited storage needed just to start the engine. Lets be generous and say that for the $80 you get 80 amp hours at 12 volts. Thats about 1 kw hr. Pretty much nothing compared with what a house uses. I would estimate my usage at 2000 watts average for 24 hours, or 48 kwhr. That would be a lot of batteries even if the solar took the load for half a day EVERY day.
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      • Posted by TheOldMan 6 years, 2 months ago
        I wonder where he plans to store all of these battery packs? There are other alternatives but these also take up lots of space. Pump water uphill to a reservoir when you have excess wind/solar electricity then let it down at night (need lots of large reservoirs and water and massive pumps and no protesting enviros), melt sodium and use the retained heat to generate power at night (liquid sodium and water make large noise...oops), giant flywheels. Nuclear has always seemed the best solution for baseline power, perhaps more smaller distributed plants to avoid massive cost overruns.
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        • Posted by term2 6 years, 2 months ago
          Just wait till the batteries leak, explode, catch fire, or spew dangerous lithium chemicals. There are practical reasons for what we do. And when we try to just mandate whats done, there are unintended consequences that are usually ignored by the powers that be
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          • Posted by TheOldMan 6 years, 2 months ago
            Reminds me of the commencement speaker who said "Before you go out to change the world, you need to understand why things are done the way they are."
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            • Posted by term2 6 years, 2 months ago
              That is profound. In general , people dont do things for no reason at all. Best always to look around for why they do those things first, and THEN improve on it if you can.

              We could start with first asking why people gravitate so strongly to collectivism, before we try to convince them to give it up in favor of individualism. Flat out appeals to reason havent seemed to work very well.
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              • Posted by TheOldMan 6 years, 2 months ago
                I think it's because people are greedy and lazy and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. Who doesn't want more for less work? Collectivism looks great unless you realize that no one will work to create the "free" goods that you want. Greedy and lazy have prompted the creation of a vast number of inventions to make human life easier. We no longer spend hours beating our clothes against rocks to get them clean, rather we drop them in the washing machine and read a book while the machine does the work. We get to be "lazy" and someone else got to be "greedy" by charging us for the machine, detergent, electricity, a perfect win-win!
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                • Posted by term2 6 years, 2 months ago
                  I am thinking that you are partially right about the lazy part. But I would add that collectivism seems to offer laziness in dealing with ones own feelings. PC is an offshoot of this, in that everyone should be sure not to "offend" anyone, rather than let them deal with their own feelings of disapproval.
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  • Posted by mshupe 6 years, 2 months ago
    The vanity of his stupid legacy at any cost. The simplest and most effective way to achieve the utopian carbon emission objective is to simply stop exhaling. Governor Brown, you first.
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 6 years, 2 months ago
    Global warming (and the earlier global cooling) and the various infeasible projects are touchstones. They serve to separate the heretics and the faithful.

    "Climate science" can only be approached by climate scientists. If the skeptical dare touch the shrine they had better bow deeply.

    Moonbeam has signaled that he is a believer.

    Why am I even saying these things? Some novelist covered it all in 1957.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 6 years, 2 months ago
    What's pathetic about this is that all the California reusable energy efforts have stalled, while oil and gas rich Oklahoma just passed 40% of state energy sources from wind and solar, with more underway. If it wasn't so difficult to get right of way for high power lines, the Okies would be providing power from renewable sources to the Tennessee Valley Authority. All that without demonizing and trying to destroy coal, oil, or gas.
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    • Posted by TheOldMan 6 years, 2 months ago
      I think TX is the leader in wind generated electricity but then TX is a large state. More interesting would be wind generated electricity/sq mile.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 6 years, 2 months ago
        Yep, Texas is number one, and Iowa is second, but Oklahoma is number three, ahead of California. There are several multimegawatt wind projects out in the OK panhandle that might push us to number two before long. Solar is picking up as well. Somebody finally figured out that when it's hot, the wind dies, but when it's dark, the wind picks up, making solar and wind kind of symbiotic. If somebody can develop inexpensive energy storage, reusable energy will be competitive and reliable. I still think the best form of storage is Edison batteries, since they're cheap to make, and last forever.

        I don't understand why California, with 700 miles of shoreline, hasn't invested in tidal power. The technology is proven, but then the environmentalists probably have some kind of marine fauna that needs protecting.
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        • Posted by Lucky 6 years, 2 months ago
          California, shoreline, tidal power.
          Tidal power is established technology but requires a large sea-level range to be economic / to get significant power even with the usual subsides. Does the Cal coast have that range?
          More likely, there would be lobbying from the industry. Wind generation can work with off-the-shelf units and is big business.
          Protecting flora and fauna- such arguments are used by the enviro lobby only to stop fossil and nuclear power generation.
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          • Posted by DrZarkov99 6 years, 2 months ago
            Actually, the envirowacko element has been very active here in OK, screeching about how the wind turbines are killing eagles, and how they're scaring off the prairie chickens from their natural breeding grounds. They always target the "flyover" states. California gets a pass because of its deep blue political color.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 6 years, 2 months ago
    Calif. leaders are ignorant or worse. There is no way thye have the electritycy available to plug in millions of cars. As it stands, pre open borders, they were importing electicity from AZ. hydro plants. With the droughts, that is in peril. Further, all those electric battereis, overall, have a larger carbon footprint, from production to disposal, than conventional cars.This in attion to Gov. Moonbeam's threat to sent up a satellite? True insanity, go ahead, leave the US and save us all.
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  • Posted by LazarusLong 6 years, 2 months ago
    Doesn't he realize that he is mostly carbon. Will he be willing to pay a carbon tax on being alive because he is mostly carbon?
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  • -3
    Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 2 months ago
    This is one of the most important threats of our time, so I'm glad people are addressing it. It's a threat because because it's away people are trashing others' property with their mess, and it's hard to trace the costs the person who made the mess. It's unfortunately not as simple as me dumping some chemical that fouls up my neighbor's property. So I admire anyone taking any action.

    But the real solution will come from entrepreneurs when there's a structure to make people pay for their mess. I make the mess without paying when I heat my home, and I pay for the mess when after historic flooding Madison property insurance rates rose 30%. And even now, I cannot draw a direct causal line between global warming and the flooding. It's a signal with loads of Gaussian noise on it. It's very hard to pull out. I cannot attribute any outlier day or weather event, but we know global warming is a very real signal hidden under the Gaussian noise, and we know it's mostly (not sure exactly how much) caused by human activities. I think we're fools to wait to address it. It's as if there were a bunch of small asteroids on a probably collision course with Earth, yet we still engage in denial and wishful thinking. We rightly say global warming and the Holocene mass extinction event can't kill us all. That's right. But it can cost our heirs a bunch of value, as surly as estate taxes. So I'm grateful for people who will do anything, even if it's not the most efficient approach, to deal with greenhouse gasses and the global warming they will cause.
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 years, 2 months ago
      You can't draw a direct causal line between global warming and the flooding because global warming is a prediction for the FUTURE. It hasn't happened yet. If the numbers are correct (and they are suspect) it is just over 1 degree warmer than it was 100 years ago. The concern is about several degrees in the next century.

      People pointing to current events and saying "See, it's global warming" are demonstrating that it's just a political ploy.

      Of course all these temperature numbers have been heavily massaged to from the raw readings so I don't entirely trust them.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 2 months ago
        "You can't draw a direct causal line between global warming and the flooding because global warming is a prediction for the FUTURE."
        No, because of the nature of stochastic systems. The same thing is true for explaining an individual set of ADC values in a communications receiver.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago
      "global warming is a very real signal hidden under the Gaussian noise, and we know it's mostly (not sure exactly how much) caused by human activities"

      Really? And just how do you know that? Global warming is one thing (it happened several times during the history of the Earth), but man-made global warming? It has been disproved scientifically. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
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      • Posted by TheOldMan 6 years, 2 months ago
        Perhaps big yellow thing in sky is involved? How many people realize that a mere 17000 years ago much of NA was covered in glaciers? The last I read is that perhaps a "wobble" (no idea what might have caused that) in the Earth's rotation may have triggered the melt.
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 years, 2 months ago
      And, of course, the fact that the same people who are saying that global warming is a crisis to the planet are also demanding that nuclear power plants be shut down is a clear indication of the actual goals.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 2 months ago
        "are also demanding that nuclear power plants be shut down"
        I know. Nuclear scary if you don't have the facts. Burning things causes slow, costly changes to the environment; which isn't scary on a visceral way. It's irrational behavior. If people were left alone to use whatever power they wanted so long as the cleaned up the costs to others' property, nuclear would be a clear winner. Just burning stuff with no attempt to put the carbon back in the earth or to mitigate global warming in some other way would be expensive.
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    • Posted by DrZarkov99 6 years, 2 months ago
      The U.S. is in fact alone among the large developed nations in reducing its carbon profile. While we've consistently closed down coal fired powerplants and replaced them with cleaner gas fired systems, Germany built more to make up for the nuclear plants they closed after Fukushima. China promises to stop increasing its carbon production by 2030, while India says it will "investigate" when they can do the same. Across the board we seem to be the only nation taking carbon reduction seriously, and not just making noise. Ironically, the U.S. is the biggest buyer of European and Chinese wind turbines, with wind farms expanding faster in the U.S. than in any other country.

      The same can be said for plastic debris polluting the oceans. The U.S. contributes less than 10%, even though we're the biggest plastic consumer. Part of it is better waste management, and part is serious recycling efforts.
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    • Posted by term2 6 years, 2 months ago
      you are assuming that global warming is in fact totally due to the use of fossil fuels. Since global warming has happened many times in the past, it is very likely its caused mainly by forces outside our control, and no matter what we do, its not going away.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 2 months ago
        That's close. I'm accepting it's due to human activities, which include deforestation. This is way outside my area, but my understanding is most of that is from releasing greenhouse gases. There's also the cycle of glaciation maxima and minima, but my understanding is human activities, mostly from CO2, predominate.
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        • Posted by term2 6 years, 2 months ago
          I would estimate that no matter what the people living today do, there will still be global warming to some degree. Also, if its CO2, it probably will be due more to china in the future than the USA.

          I dont like the fact its politicized and made into a collectivist tool which will impact ME right now, rather than some etherial warming of the planet that might happen in 50 years.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 2 months ago
            "I would estimate that no matter what the people living today do, there will still be global warming to some degree"
            Yes. My understanding is a significant portion of it is not related to humans. Also, we may head back toward a period of glaciation. I don't know much about that, but I know you're right that global warming is not 100% caused by human activities.
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