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We are doomed!

Posted by Storo 7 years, 5 months ago to Government
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WE ARE DOOMED!
So a Republican controlled House, Senate and White House cannot find enough votes to repeal Obamacare. Even to pass Obamacare-lite, which I suppose repeals something, but leaves the mandates, taxes, and other aspects in place.
This shows that the many "repeal" votes taken during the Obama Administration were, as we all suspected, show votes by the GOP with no substance.
Sen. Lisa Murkowski said she would not vote for the latest repeal bill because of cuts included in the bill to Medicaid. Therein lies our doom.
If there is ever going to be any fiscal sanity brought to bear in Washington, and if the spending deficits and the National Debt is to ever be tackled, it MUST be by way of reforming entitlements. This would require changing of eligibility requirements, and an overall reduction in the size, scope and cost of these programs. But there is clearly no stomach for this among the Ruling Class in Washington because it would endanger the re-election hopes of anyone who votes to make these cuts. Why? Because 40% of the American people rely on government handouts to make ends meet. 45% are on food stamps. Illegal aliens - 20 Million of them - are allowed access to government benefits, making a bad situation even worse.
Given the lack of any appetite for cutting government spending on social programs, the only alternative path, short of armed revolution, is continuing down the road we are on, with increasing deficits, added trillions to the national debt, and eventual financial collapse. I.E. Doom.

http://mrkt.news/2-charts-show-next-recession-will-blow-us-budget/


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  • 17
    Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 years, 5 months ago
    The "trouble" was not the repeal it was the replace. Government has not authority to take a role in the free market, let alone health care/insurance. What was being floated kept the transgression alive.

    A full repeal without replacement is the only outcome I wish to see.
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    • Posted by NealS 7 years, 5 months ago
      I've always thought the government should be run by those that have so much proven they can run something successfully (Romney/Trump), those that do not need any more money (Romney/Trump). All government could/should work for free, every one of them, being proven experts, that are only in it to make this a better country, down to the last job. If we didn't pay government people (in lieu of employees) the graft and greed might even disappear, and I'm quite sure a whole bunch of government expense and bureaucracy would vanish with it. I mean, how much does it cost to have the IRS, Dept of Energy, Dept of Education, etc.,, etc., etc., all those people just checking up on us and making us conform to their laws and rules? We could easily devote more dollars to police, military, and building that wall, things that might actually protect us. Those that want to provide food stamps etc., can do so individually out of their kind hearts, we don't need government to take a slice and do it for us. Actually one on one handing food to someone in need will do so much more to get them on their feet than just sending them a check (or food stamps), and letting some computer control it. Medical, I wonder how my dad handled it in the early 50's when I lit myself on fire, all those months of hospitalization, and those specialists that had to be flown in. I don't think we had Obamacare or even Trumpcare. I think we were completely on our own, and somehow we still survived. Would it had been better to treat me mandated through some government program, I don't think so.

      Full Repeal, that's it. Perhaps the Dems and media are actually doing us a favor, and we'll actually have no other alternative except a full repeal. Trump can do it without repercussions in his second term. Politics today are totally geared to re-election, not what is best for the country, the people of the country. Term Limits is another need, and real soon. And with term limits, most proven successful people could afford to give a few years, no charge, for the good of the country.
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  • 11
    Posted by $ WilliamShipley 7 years, 5 months ago
    The underlying problem is that people go to Washington to DO things. That's the benchmark which success is measured on -- which new laws did you pass, what new agency or commission did you create?

    There are probably a handful who actually want to scale back the government but it is far short of a majority.
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    • Posted by NealS 7 years, 5 months ago
      It like climbing a mountain, because it's there. I'm looking at a customized 1928 "T" Pickup. My coffee group asks me why. I reply, "Because I can". Should the government have a say, I think not. Perhaps we need to put more of "By the people", back into the government, more items and issues on the ballot, before it's entirely out of hand. One on one, I find it hard to imagine there isn't a lot more of the silent majority out there. We've just got to get them out of their closets. Isn't this what both sides really want, get out of the closet? Or do we just blindly follow the leaders, those that are just protecting their jobs?
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 5 months ago
      "There are probably a handful who actually want to scale back the government but it is far short of a majority."
      I do not think we've had a bad run of luck on the type of people elected to office. I think we have a system that rewards politicians who DO things and makes it difficult for anyone wanting to UNDO things to get elected.

      I see the Constitution as attempting to prevent this state of affairs, but it's not working. The gov't HAS power over a large segment of the economy and people's lives, and to get elected politicians must promise to use it to DO things for people.

      I do not have a solution; I think we'll decay in a slow undramatic fashion, which is a sad thought. It's tempting to think "If we do not start electing people who can contain gov't, the country will collapse in an apocalyptic fashion, leaving behind Utnapishtim, Noah, and other righteous people to build a better world." I think think this is a very simplistic flood-myth fantasy.

      I like the idea of a Convention of States. Right now the Constitution's not working because there's no authority making it work. There must be a way to fix it.
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      • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 5 months ago
        The only problem with an Article V is it opens the door to not just what we want, but what the populist leftist urban majority wants... if there were a way to do this without turning on the fire hose for those who would hydraulically mine away the mountain of freedom, I would be all for it... but one must be cautious, as there is such a radically leftist bent out there right now that it could result in an outcome we neither expect nor desire...
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        • Posted by 7 years, 5 months ago
          Any Amendment to the Constitution approved by the Convention of States (COS) will still need to be ratified by 3/4 of all the states just like any other amendment.
          So let's say the COS approved an amendment that repealed the 2nd Amendment. 38 states would need to ratify it. So it would only take 13 states to block it.
          Thus, a "runaway convention" might try to do a lot of things, but there would be a very high bar they would have to jump over to have anything become law.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 5 months ago
          "it opens the door to not just what we want, but what the populist leftist urban majority want"
          Those are three traits: Populist, Leftist, and Urban.

          The only trait that matters to an Article V Convention is a fourth trait: support for limited gov't. For it to work, it would take support from Populists/Elitists, Leftist/Centrists/Right Wingers, and Urban/Rural who believe in Constitutionally limited gov't.

          We need that group to be a majority. We should not need a majority because the Constitution was specifically set up to provide boundaries for the majority. But it is not working, so here we are 200 years later unfortunately needing the majority to accept limiting gov't.

          "turning on the fire hose for those who would hydraulically mine away the mountain of freedom"
          I've heard there are ways to prevent that from happening. I'm ready to accept some risk to get reform now, before it becomes an immediate crisis.
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  • Posted by chad 7 years, 5 months ago
    I stated at the outset of the last election that there was no determination to repeal the ACA no matter who was elected. The healthcare act does not provide healthcare coverage and discussing whether or not it does is irrelevant in to the fact that it was never designed to. It was designed to collect large amounts of money and pay only enough out to convince the populace that they have something that doesn't exist. The purpose of the act is to take currency out of circulation to prevent hyper inflation, the congress, president and courts understand and know if they repeal the ACA they will have a much larger problem which is why they find excuses not to act on the promise they made.
    As far as the national debt when the country works with fiat currency and a banking monopoly there is no way to address the debt problem. Since all fiat currency is created by debt to pay off the debt would remove all currency from circulation and leave the debt of interest and no way to pay it. The country needs a monetary system (not policy that policymakers invent) that represents value and free trade (reality and an objective reaction to it). What America has is a monopolistic confidence game where the last person holding the dollar loses. We are demanding free enterprise using their arguments about monetary policy, no matter where we take a stand on the argument of collectivism we still lose.
    The ACA will not be repealed anymore than Obama would end the war on terrorism and bring the troops home as he promised. He knew he couldn't do it, just made the promise to get elected and enriched by the policymakers after his term of office. He knows the ACA won't provide healthcare and doesn't care he is merely trying to sell the lie. Get ready for serious economic difficulties ahead and get used to living with them as long as 1) we continue to think we must have leaders and obey them and 2) you think the majority of people prefer liberty, they prefer slavery so expect its continuation.
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  • Posted by evlwhtguy 7 years, 5 months ago
    I really don't know why any Republican is worried about voting this down....Mitt Romney was right....47% of people are takers and will never vote for a Republican.......unless in a drunken or drug induced stupor, they push the wrong button. The republican lawmakers shouldn't be worried about the "Recipients" but the "payers"!!! I am tired about hearing of the problems of the underclass and the downtrodden,....what abnout me! If you prick me do I not bleed??? I am beig robbed every day by deadbeats and parasites. If these people cant make it on their own they should be selected out. If we do not allow this to happen all we will eventually have is the weak and lame and the next thing you know we will be conquered...probably by a Muslim Caliphate.
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    • Posted by 7 years, 5 months ago
      Problem is that "takers" are out numbering "payers".
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      • Posted by evlwhtguy 7 years, 5 months ago
        There is the rub....that is what the people that would suggest I am a bastard for wanting to let the incompetent fend for themselves, don't seem to understand.....When you help too many people you create more dependency and one day, when the poo hits the fan....there will be more misery than they think they are avoiding, by stealing my money.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 5 months ago
      As far as I am concerned, the fact someone voted for Hillary is a damn good indication of where they are at philosophically, and good enough reason to have nothing to do with them. And people are willing to answer that they DID vote for Hillary, so it makes it easy to discriminate against them without seeming like some sort of evil person !
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    • Posted by mccannon01 7 years, 5 months ago
      Your assessment is spot on, except the conquered may not necessarily be ruled over by a Muslim Caliphate as it may be something closer to a Stalin or Mao - or several of them competing over a Balkanized North America. I've said before when the system collapses, the attrition rate will be enormous.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 5 months ago
    I finally had the time free to attend a town hall cook out with town republicans and nominate people for the next election.
    I spoke to our first selectman about taking our town back from the state. He said it would be a great idea, if it is possible, because if they didn't take our tax money generated locally we would never need a loan or grant ever again and therefore never accountable to our progressive state government either.

    We will be speaking again on possibly getting our local healthcare clinic to begin a program of taking care of our "individual" health emergencies for a set monthly fee, (like a local co-op)...thereby avoiding the health insurance trap and to hell with the congress and federal health care lawlessness.

    He is willing to listen to other ideas I have to better prepare our town for the dim future we face. ie, local currency, food etc.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 5 months ago
      Before the AMA took control and used government to impose their will, the business of healing allowed people free choice of the treatment they thought was best for themselves. Allopathic medicine was not the sole "approved" solution, and the process of becoming a healer was not controlled by the forces of allopathic medicine, aka the AMA. The free market is the solution. Government and trade association meddling is the problem.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 5 months ago
    Our next crisis will be a financial crisis of the dollar. The question is WHEN it will happen. Its going to be ugly no matter what the government does to cover it over. I wouldnt want to have children in this world, they will not have a good life. Survival will involved dodging and weaving around governmental programs
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    • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 5 months ago
      "Our next crisis will be a financial crisis of the dollar."

      Yes!!!! More need to be aware of this........learn to understand it.............not easy, but very crucial.
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      • Posted by term2 7 years, 5 months ago
        looking at venezuela would be a good start. it happens slowly until all of a sudden it crashes fast. In the meantime, its pretty much like Ayn Rand called it- years of economic hardship
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        • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 5 months ago
          The more that's printed the less it's worth. The movement to "go digital" is the next step in worthless. Many "cash only" service folks up here in cattle and horse country.............better prepare for barter!
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 5 months ago
    Here are several proposals I think would go a long way toward helping restore good government practice:

    1. A Balanced Budget Amendment. Pretty simple: Congress can't spend more than we take in (including interest expenses). I would make the maximum budget available based on the actual tax receipts from two years ago.
    2. A Constitutional Amendment stating that no other legislation may come to the floor of either the House or Senate until the Constitutionally-mandated Budget has been passed - save a Declaration of War.
    3. Repeal of the 17th Amendment. Return the election and oversight of Senators to their respective States.
    4. Repeal of the 12th Amendment. Eliminate the party system of voting for President and Vice President on the same ticket. Return it to what it was: the highest vote-getter being President and second-most becoming Vice President with ties broken in the House of Representatives.
    5. Increase the number of seats in the House of Representatives to one representative for every 200,000 citizens. (Employ the technology for remote meeting attendance!)
    6. Restrict campaign financing support to only those constituents residing for voting purposes within a Representative's precinct. No PAC's, no Party fundraising - just grassroots donations and interests at play.
    7. Eliminate ALL unions of government employees including teachers, air traffic controllers, etc.
    8. A Constitutional Amendment putting the responsibility for funding of all Congressional offices and staffers on their represented States (this includes healthcare and retirement plans - if any).
    9. A Constitutional Amendment setting the allowed Cabinet positions and limiting them to State, Treasury, Interior, and Justice. Additional Cabinet positions would have to be set and approved by Constitutional Amendment from that point forward.
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    • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 5 months ago
      A mandated balanced budget would just give them any excuse to raise taxes or keep them high; they would balance the budget on the backs of the taxpayers.

      As to PACs--people have a right to donate their own money to the causes they want to.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 5 months ago
        "A mandated balanced budget would just give them any excuse to raise taxes or keep them high;"

        Higher tax rates don't translate to higher tax revenues however. That's one of the huge fallacies government lawmakers frequently make. Higher tax revenues have always been recognized after tax rates are lowered. See the presidencies of Calvin Coolidge and Ronald Reagan. This proposal would encourage lower tax rates and higher resulting tax revenues. It would also spur both real income and business.

        Remember, taxation is proportional to a degree to the number of transactions taking place in the market. Just as in business, you can get your revenue based on higher tax rates on fewer transactions (think luxury goods) or you can get the revenue based on tiny tax rates on many transactions (think grocery stores). If business slows down and tax revenues decrease, Congress will have little choice but to cut costs, decreasing the number of government services. And if they want to add a government service, they're going to have to lower tax rates to fund it without choking off what they already get because of diminishing returns (see the Laffer Curve). I'm certainly open to any flaws one might see in this arrangement, but it seems to me to have a lot of upside potential.

        "As to PACs--people have a right to donate their own money to the causes they want to."

        Yes. Sorry. What I'm talking about here are direct donations to candidates. People can run PAC's, but remember their messaging has to be on issues - not endorsement of specific candidates. What I want to do is limit the funding coming from outside groups who aren't even represented in the population of a given Representative holding sway (via donations) over how a candidate votes. Another note: this proposal would drastically undercut the entire basis for Party fundraising - since they wouldn't be able to give it back to the candidates or demand specific votes, etc. - which is what currently takes place. Both the Democratic and Republican Parties expect their leadership positions (Whip, Majority Leader, Speaker, Chair) to kick back to the Party itself a certain amount of funding just for holding that position. It makes the Party Leaders like Reince Preibus and Howard Dean de facto political leaders even though they aren't elected.
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        • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 5 months ago
          Whether higher tax rates translate into higher revenue or not, you can't rely on politicians to have enough sense to realize that. It would just give them a handle to rob the citizens more and more. (Aside from the fact that the government shouldn't have more $ to play with as a result of social spending). As to PACs, people have a right to give their own money to whichever political causes or candidates they choose.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 5 months ago
            If you implement a budget based on a prior year's receipts, the politicians don't have any choice but to deal with it - whether they want to realize it or not. They'll only have that much to work with.

            Actually, I would argue the corresponding inverse principle of no taxation without representation: no donation without representation. If you aren't living and voting in a precinct, you can't donate money to that candidate. I see this happening where I am with out-of-state donors giving money to specific candidates even though they have nothing to do with my area. Representation is supposed to be local. I'm sick of people like Bloomberg, Soros, and others trying to sway votes clear across the country from where they live just to further their agenda.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 5 months ago
    The real issue with Obamacare is that by expanding Medicaid to include people with 4 x poverty levels, the government turned people who are in the maker class into takers. The offer of "free" medical care when faced with the horrible alternative of $12K/yr premiums and $10K deductibles was too tempting to pass up. I have no doubt that many who pulled the Republican lever when voting are in this group now.

    The intent all along was always to create an unpalatable situation to instill a desire for single payer. As P.J. O'Rourke has said many times, if you think medical care is expensive, wait until it's free. California voters wailed for single payer until the price came back at $400B/yr, requiring a tripling of the state's budget. Even if the VA, Medicare, and Medicaid were absorbed into a new "Medicare for all," as Bernie Sanders likes to call it, it would still require an additional $3 trillion added to an already bloated federal budget to provide single payer for all American residents.

    I was assigned to Australia in the mid-70s when they tried single payer, and it promised exploding deficits. Fortunately for the Aussies, deficits are banned by their constitution. After the Labor government tried to sneak loans from Swiss bankers, the Governor General disbanded the government (the ultimate "You're fired"), and instituted new elections which resulted in a saner leadership. We don't have a Governor General like Commonwealth countries, who can impeach everyone at one time, so we're stuck with the doofuses we gullibly elect.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 5 months ago
    The Trump victory in the election was just a speedbump in the progressive agenda, providing a few years of rest before the machine gets kicked back on. And, make no mistake - the GOP is a guilty party in this. They'll find a way to make sure Trump doesn't have a second term and they'll be off and running again: open borders, amnesty, higher taxes, more regulations, much more war, single-payer healthcare. It's coming. And, there's nothing we can do to stop it. Just go Galt eventually. We have a front-row seat to watch a world-power nation sink below the waves. If I didn't have kids I wouldn't be nearly as concerned as I am. It's sad to think about...
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 5 months ago
      Exactly right. Trump was always to be a speedbump as you say, at least thats why I voted for him. The swamp is deep and wide, and both parties are against draining it. I wanted lower tax rates, fewere regulations, no more refugee immigrants, and repeal of obamacare. Maybe I will get one of those things, maybe two.
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  • Posted by $ Suzanne43 7 years, 5 months ago
    Yes, we certainly are. Don't let anyone tell you that we are not a Socialist country because we are. As some wag said, "The only difference between Socialism and Communism is a matter of time."
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  • Posted by GaryL 7 years, 5 months ago
    Most here are perfectly fine with help for the young, help for the elderly and help for those who are truly sick and incapacitated. All the rest who are stuck on a government teat are nothing short of parasites and should be left to fend for themselves. I and many here pay for healthcare for me and mine but it is ten times more costly because we are paying for the freeloaders. Government can't fix stupid but it sure does promote it with our tax dollars.
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  • Posted by wmiranda 7 years, 5 months ago
    Murkowski and a bunch of others present themselves as a good argument for term limits in all national level office. We have to get rid of the political aristocracy and start electing "We The People" types interested only in doing a couple of terms to make a difference instead of working perpetually on reelections.
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  • Posted by andrewph 7 years, 5 months ago
    When I was 12, my dad had me read Atlas Shrugged. I was already a very conservative young boy, but that book convinced me that we needed a new revolution. Living in the suburbs of Dallas gave me a unique perspective from her book. Takers are in all strata of society. Unless we get rid of all government programs that aren't directly protecting our boarders or our citizens I.e. Police and fire, we will always have someone talk about putting a chicken in every pot or paying for someone's college! We need an article V and an amendment getting rid of any and all social programs. When Ayn said the story of Robin Hood wasn't about a hero but a true thief, it changed for me all the nursery rhymes and stories I ever heard. I started looking at them as what they were, indoctrination of our young towards a socialist society.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 5 months ago
    We are doomed every other week it seems.The way things are, I might even enjoy a little fire & brimstone. Bar-B-Que ribs, twice baked potato, a great hot sauce, home-made slaw, cold beer, and key lime pie made by a local pie maker to a family recipe. After that, we are not doomed. At least until tomorrow.
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  • Posted by hvance 7 years, 5 months ago
    As for me I'm glad they did not repeal obamacare. Let it die its own death as it surely will. Only then can a realistic look at insurance be possible. I am fairly certain that this was the plan of the rock stars in DC. This way they don't have to make a choice, the free market bails them out and they don't have that Scarlotte Letter on their precious campaigns. We need to go back to user pays and that would clean up a lot of the overcharging that goes on.
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    • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 5 months ago
      My problem with that is the left's scorched-earth methodology. If Obamacare kills 2/3 our population before the dumb masses figure it out the left will be smiling.
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  • Posted by gpecaut 7 years, 5 months ago
    The Looters must appeal to the Moochers to get re-elected.
    The answer lies in an Article V Convention of the States. Rand admired our Constitution, even though she could see where it was going. The Constitution gives us the fix for these problems. Support an Article V Convention of the States. And vote more Conservative representatives in place of these RINOs come primary time.
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  • Posted by pamzt 7 years, 5 months ago
    It is very easy to be a "good" republican when you have nothing to lose by voting for repeal. It's much tougher to stand on ones principles when the rubber meets the road (Murkowski). Funny how the defectors were both the principled and well as the waffles.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 5 months ago
    I've been saying "we are doomed" since Goldwater lost to LBJ.
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 5 months ago
      Neither of which were any kind of realistically desirable leadership - one was for escalating the war and pushing a liberal statist agenda, the other was for global thermonuclear war to eliminate the then-bogeyman.

      The real problem was we were (and still are) so entrenched in the "mandatory 2 party only system" that any alternative is untenable... You MUST have either A or B, and anything else is a "wasted vote of failure", no matter how bad the A or B choice was or is.

      Simply - you are REQUIRED, socially and morally and almost legally to vote for the "Two-Named Monoparty". How many tell you if you vote for someone outside this "you are wasting your vote", or worse, :a vote for (3rd party) is a vote for (insert enemy of the person speaking here)...

      So which would you rather have? Lenin or Trotsky? Because they're BOTH the same thing...
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  • Posted by wiggys 7 years, 5 months ago
    WOW so many have so much to say.
    Do not forget that Ayn Rand saw and wrote about the demise of the country years ago as I expect many of you knew, I did not have to remind you.
    The problem is as she pointed out ALTRUISM. I have believed for many years that the country was doomed as Storo points out. Pity the young!
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    • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 5 months ago
      "The problem is as she pointed out ALTRUISM."

      Yes, and it must be named for what it is........the sacrifice of self to [all] others. I have named it for years, receiving mostly a blank stare reminiscent of a cow.............the responsibility for which lies with education (at all levels) for the last 40+ years.
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  • Posted by BradA 7 years, 5 months ago
    The time when Obamacare could have been stopped has come and gone. That would have been during Obama's campaign for his 2nd term. If the US voters had been so offended by this intrusion into our freedoms, the only window they had to fix it was by replacing its source and then quickly fixing his mistake. They didn't. After that, the front loaded benefits (goodies) had kicked in making any subsequent attempt to take them back, regardless of the scheme's obvious downstream doom, a task worthy of Sisyphus.
    Once the avalanche started it was too late for the pebbles to vote.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 5 months ago
    Total repeal; that is the only way to go. And if the present Congresspeople won't do it, the best way is to put new nominees in, at the Republican primaries for 2018, which is what was done a few years ago in Virginia, in the case of Eric Cantor, who was defeated for the nomination by Dave Brat.
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