I'm considering giving it all away

Posted by saucerdesigner 7 years, 10 months ago to Technology
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Going open source would be one way to get this thing flying before I croak, or not. Finances are one of the big issues. Age (68) is another.
A Patent Application in today's environment is out of the question (hat-tip to dbhalling). I'd like to make some money off of it, which has always been a big motivator, but maybe I can make as much or more just traveling and lecturing...maybe selling kits like Burt Rutan.
What are your thoughts, Pro and Con about going open source with my obsession of the last 38 years?
SOURCE URL: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvbRThajlgqAhhwGozjt04U38yDl


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  • Posted by mspalding 7 years, 10 months ago
    I'd build a working scale model. There are RC modeler groups that would be interested. There are several local drone groups (see meetup) that have folks that would be interested in building it for free. But a working scale model would answer a lot of questions and make the next steps easier. Plus you could sell the 2' version to enthusiasts and maybe make enough money to fund development of a full scale version. Kickstarter could fund the small version.
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    • Posted by 7 years, 10 months ago
      Yes, indeed. I've flying RC since my teens. I hold a FAA Airline Transport ASMEL Pilot Certificate and was first certificated as a flight instructor in 1972. I got back into RC to stay abreast of the current state-of-the-art.
      Kickstarter is definitely an option. Thanks!!
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago
    Once you get up in years and dont really want to leave a lot of money to the government, inventing is more of a fun thing, and less of a financial thing.

    As I have said before, I am not convinced at all that the patent system we have is fair, given that it grants a government monopoly to the first inventor to pay off the patent system and patent lawyers.
    Its anti-competitive. A good inventor can work around pretty much any patent anyway, so the $50k one spends on the government probably wont be worth a lot in the marketplace. The patent does give large companies a leg up in that they can use the patent to wreak legal havoc on small companies who attempt to compete with the patent in ANY way at all.

    Have a good time inventing and go open source in this socialist environment- no one can take away the pleasure and satisfaction of the inventing process no matter if they pass directive 10-289.
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    • Posted by 7 years, 10 months ago
      Spot on term2.
      dbhalling's book opened my eyes to the sad state of the US patent system and what could be done to fix it.
      What's been most gratifying so far is getting the propulsion components designed using a brute-force number-cruncher I wrote in Python and taking that data and drawing it up using some awesome CAD software called Rhinoceros 3D by Robert McNeel & Associates, which by the way is why I started studying Python. Rhino uses Python as it's scripting language...very powerful...and easy.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 10 months ago
    Cool. Do you have a prototype? How much would it cost to make 100 pcs using materials, construction, and appearance that to users and installers would appear close (not identical) to the appearance of this product if it went to volume production? Would these pilot units (from the 100-pc build) be installable into standard electrical boxes by the same people who install typical fans?
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    • Posted by 7 years, 10 months ago
      Thanks for your question.
      It's not to be installed into standard electrical boxes.
      It is a scale model of an experimental Vertical Takeoff and Landing (VTOL) aircraft proof-of-concept prototype. The carbon fiber plate used in the main propulsion components is $1K per copy in single units. I'll not be considering more than one unless it can be shown to successfully climb out of ground effect; in other words it is not a hovercraft. It is, if it will climb out of ground effect, e.g. continue to climb from a height greater than it's wingspan (diameter, in this case) an aircraft. Big "if".
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 10 months ago
        The one person I know involved in an aerospace startup tells me it's a very difficult, highly politicized industry. Some thoughts:
        - If you could build the fixture plus propulsion proto for $2k, that seems like a worthwhile cheap test. Even if the answer is it doesn't work you may learn something useful.
        - See if any hobbyists at a local hackerspace want to help and thereby reduce cost.
        - If the initial test works, might you be able to partner with someone with a PhD to act as the PI on an SBIR grant? Don't get caught up jumping through gov't hoops, but I've seen people get good funding through grants.
        - Even if you retire before the project is complete, if you get it started you could sell your shares to the people working on it. They wouldn't even have to give you cash but royalties. You don't have to worry about that, though, until you get it working.

        All of this is so very hard to execute. I have not done it; I'm far from an expert. I've watched so many people struggle. The startup I know is Carter Copter. They have something that take take off like a helicopter and fly like a plane. They've struggled for years.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 10 months ago
    From what I can see (which is not much), I'd hazard a guess that this uses the Coanda effect for generating lift. There are several small flying models using this aerodynamic effect you can find on YouTube now. Going open source could avoid claims of violating existing patents, since you're just interested in getting it flying, rather than making a profit.
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    • Posted by 7 years, 10 months ago
      It doesn't use Coanda effect for generating lift. I did a patent search years ago and no one had done it. That doesn't mean someone hasn't since. We'll see. Once it's published, if I decide to let it go, the marketplace will perfect it..
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 10 months ago
    The key to making it in experimental aerospace is getting really good at using other people's money. We even had a small company near here most of you have heard of that hired engineers who would only work for free. Yeah...

    So, I'd suggest approaching people in aerospace working around the SoCal high desert aerospace complexes. There are a lot of guys down there who deal in these things. I know. I used to work with them...
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
    Looks nice, but what exactly is it, what does it do, and how far along in development is it?
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    • Posted by 7 years, 10 months ago
      Please see my reply to CircuitGuy for what it does, CBJ. The hard part is done. The propulsion components, their drive-train components and the hull have been designed; the motors selected (they're RC model helicopter electric motors) and their associated components, i.e. Batteries, Electronic Speed Controller (ESC), etc.
      What remains to be done is design the airframe that holds it all together, so I'd say it's over 50% completed. I'm not going to worry about control until I've built the prototype, tether it in a test fixture and see if I can build it light enough for it to climb out of ground effect.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
        Thank you. I read your reply to CircuitGuy, and would be interested to know how you plan for your prototype to improve on existing technology. Does it exceed the capabilities of current VTOLs or drones, or have other advantages such as lighter weight or a longer range?
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        • Posted by 7 years, 10 months ago
          Well, CBJ, for starters, it's much simpler than a helicopter, fewer moving parts to "leave formation" as the saying goes. Plus, rotor strikes would be eliminated. Imagine a helicopter bumping into the side of a building: lots of pieces and body parts falling to the ground. Not a problem with my design. A little body work and it's back in the air. Imagine a helicopter flying into power lines: a tangled, flaming, smoking mess. My design would slip under, over or through them.
          It would be much easier to fly than a helicopter also.Plus it's not as ugly as a helicopter. And who wouldn't want a flying saucer in their back yard? Making it as efficient as a helicopter will be the challenge.
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