Fascism and communism are both variants of socialism. The world is "stuck" on them because it is "stuck" on collectivist altruist ideology. It will end when bad philosophy is replaced by a philosophy of reason and individualism. Ayn Rand discussed this extensively. Read her nonfiction.

Fascism vs communism is a distinction without a difference. Both are destructive of personal liberty and both can be easily recognized by the fact they can only be imposed by use of force. The only real difference between the two is who are the oppressors? True capitalism is a component of personal liberty. Only when men are able to exchange goods and services without government interference are they truly free. All other "freedoms" are illusory without freedom of exchange. The most insidious form of servitude is that where the slave is kept ignorant of the weight of his own chains.

We will have won when the debate is individualism versus collectivism. Debating two negatives is a waste of time. Debating a negative and a positive is good intellectual work.

Hello rbroberg,

When the first tyrant/bully leader of a clan told an underling what to produce.

When they run out of other peoples' money. This happens when the producers, seeing the futility, give up producing, or rebel en masse. At such a point in history it is a dangerous time. The prevailing philosophy could be replaced with something better, or worse.
Respectfully,
O.A.

Its all statism. I dont really care what they call it.

The first philosophical justification for an all controlling central state was Thomas Hobbes' "Leviathan." In that treatise, he contended that an individual could not possibly wield enough power to survive without the protection of the state. Although Hobbes was justifying the power of the British monarchy, which he regarded as benevolent, his writings laid the groundwork for an all powerful central authority which was Fascist in nature, where one prospered as long as he recognized the absolute authority to control relied on a great leader.

The ideological roots of Communism go back much further, to Socrates and Plato, who envisioned a society with communal ownership and absolute order, but the modern political vision came from Karl Marx in the mid 1800s. The Soviet Union was the first successful Marxist state.

Modern Fascism was invented by Benito Mussolini after the end of WW I. His vision was of a central authority to provide efficiency and order in a crony capitalist society. He invented the term "totalitarian" to describe a state that made sure everything its citizens needed was assuredly provided, ergo totally altruistic. His version of Fascism started with noble intent and evolved into increasingly harsh oppression of opposition, as do nearly all idealistic visions of a perfect government.

At one time Americans envisioned an almost Marxist future, in that worldwide, nations would evolve to a more perfect state of individual freedom and a capitalist free market that provided plenty for all. Unfortunately, as with all idealistic visions, human differences and flaws have continued to get in the way of social progress. Until we self-evolve, or are replaced by artificial intelligence successors, we're probably going to see more of the same.

A real key in this is that few people associate facism with Hate Speech rules, Hate Crimes rules, and movements like BLM. These are all examples of facisim, but..."They are the good guys..." "We won't let this get out of hand..."

Let's look into a libtard's mind.
Fascism is bad.
Fascists would be Trump and the rest of those multi-phobic Republicans. Why fascists? Hitler and Mussolini were fascists. That's why.
At this point fascists would include the Founding Fathers who wrote that restrictive quaint relic called The Constitution. You know, there's a reason why ancient history is called ancient.
Communism is good.
Why? Che T-shirts are cool.
A little yankee ingenuity will make communism better than it has turned out elsewhere. We just need to give it a chance, y'all.
And just call it socialism because hicks in places like Alabama are resistant to the C-word portal to the new world order utopian paradise.

it will end when nobody wants to start a business and all existing businesses simply shut down.

When people found out what socialism really intends, with the death camps our military found in Germany, socialists wanted to back away from the obvious conclusion, and wanted to paint fascism as "right wing." Thus, not only was a variant of socialism passed off as "capitalism," but the depravity of socialism was hidden under a lie. Another thing that was passed off was eugenics, an idea that justifies killing people who are "unfit." This is also a core tenet of socialism.

Probably well before the flood but it is clear we have served one or the other and sometimes combinations of both since the days of Sumeria and Babylon with a few exceptions but as the music always returns to the chorus from time to time, so do these systems of oppression.

I heard this in a high school government class in the 50's. It has been a constant myth as long as I can remember.

I'm looking for the antidote to a painful future. If I can determine the beginning of this split and its common base of underlying assumptions, then I can dissolve the issue before it takes another breath.

I think in the end fascism will win out because it is seductive and less totalitarian than communism. Fascism will end when the state becomes so controlling that blood will have to be spilled to maintain its grip or, the other side, to loosen its grip.

People can only tolerate a tyrant for so long.

my 2 bits.

We're biologically adapted to travel in bands of hunter/gatherers who operate more like a family. When we organize in much larger groups, groups where we can't possibly personally know all the people we interact with and depend on, we form kingdoms that operate with elements of a family: communal ownership and autocratic parents. This is unfortunately the normal condition for humankind.

So I never ask what evil cause brings on communism and fascism. Human tendencies naturally decay in that direction if we don't put energy into the system to push toward liberty.