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    Posted by DavidKelley 8 years, 2 months ago
    For what it's worth, here is an excerpt for the entry on Rand that I wrote for The New Encyclopedia of Unbelief, ed Tom Flynn, Prometheus Books:

    Humanism. Rand held that religion is a primitive effort to serve a genuine human need for a comprehensive worldview and moral code, but that it is based on an irrational belief in the supernatural. Similarly, she held that religious notions of reverence and worship reflect the idealism of moral aspiration but are misdirected toward the suprahuman. "It is this highest level of man's emotions," she wrote, "that has to be redeemed from the murk of mysticism and redirected at its proper object: man. ... The man-worshipers, in my sense of the term' are those who see man's highest potential and strive to actualize it."

    ln this respect, Rand was clearly a humanist. Like other humanists. she believed that morality must be based on human nature rather than divine commands. She admired classical civilization as well as the modem Enlightenment, and regarded the medieval era as a dark interlude. She did not describe herself as a humanist, however, believing that the term was too general to be useful in describing a philosophical standpoint. She would have rejected many of the points in such humanist manifestos as the Council for Secular Humanism s "Affirmations of Humanism." Instead, she coined the term Objectivism as the name of her philosophy.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 8 years, 2 months ago
    Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

    Humanism is a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead meaningful, ethical lives capable of adding to the greater good of humanity.
    American Humanist Association - http://americanhumanist.org/humanism/...

    Overall, based on the definition, I'd have to say very similar but no. "Greater good" & "Collectively" are kryptonite buzz words to Objectivism.

    But, I'm a Conservative, I could be wrong.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 8 years, 1 month ago
      Rand was never (to my knowledge) against the benefits to society as a whole. The goal of an individual, in her view, was to create good and advancements for the mankind. The method, as compared to the collectivists, is fundamentally different, but that is not to say that Rand was against the good for others. According to Rand, a good and moral society is when all (or most) do good primarily for themselves, but result in good for all (or most). She did not advocate for a "dog-eat-dog" society.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      The Google definition had reference only to rationality and disbelief in superstition and supernaturalism. Also I've seen Epstein using the word here and there in this book. Was not sure if Humanism belonged to the list of buzzwords antithetical to Rand's philosophy.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 2 months ago
    No, she was an Objectivist.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      And a staunch one at that! Lol.
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      • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
        I am half joking. Can one define Objectivism without reference to her name?
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        • Posted by khalling 8 years, 2 months ago
          Rand said this in 1962. "At a sales conference at Random House, preceding the publication of Atlas Shrugged, one of the book salesmen asked me whether I could present the essence of my philosophy while standing on one foot. I did as follows:

          Metaphysics: Objective Reality
          Epistemology: Reason
          Ethics: Self-interest
          Politics: Capitalism
          If you want this translated into simple language, it would read: 1. “Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed” or “Wishing won’t make it so.” 2. “You can’t eat your cake and have it, too.” 3. “Man is an end in himself.” 4. “Give me liberty or give me death.”

          If you held these concepts with total consistency, as the base of your convictions, you would have a full philosophical system to guide the course of your life. But to hold them with total consistency—to understand, to define, to prove and to apply them—requires volumes of thought. Which is why philosophy cannot be discussed while standing on one foot—nor while standing on two feet on both sides of every fence. This last is the predominant philosophical position today, particularly in the field of politics."
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        • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 2 months ago
          Certainly one can define Objectivism without referencing AR, but her genius was in laying out her philosophy and the development of it in such a way (her fiction as well as non-fiction plus her lectures/speeches) that its sometimes difficult to discuss or explore in ways any better than what she's already done.

          As to Humanism, or any other human-centric philosophy, although one might find similarities in parts that seem to fit or mesh with some parts of Objectivism, they are not the same and it's always necessary to take them out of context of the whole to allow that similarity. That is a perilous way to think, without a solid, foundational understanding of the whole of Objectivism. AR has provided the foundation and the important structural components, leaving it to us to add the finish and trim with each new generation and new discoveries in reality.
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        • Posted by khalling 8 years, 2 months ago
          The philosophy of which the metaphysics is A is A. The epistemology of which is reason and Ethics is rational self interest of egoism, politics are Capitalism/natural rights. Understand, there are two opposing "camps" on this. Ayn Rand Institute (ARI) would say that there is no divorcing Rand from this logical system. The Atlas Society would say that the philosophy is "open" and can be expanded upon.
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          • Posted by dwlievert 8 years, 2 months ago
            I would argue that if Reason must be man's only absolute, and I agree that it must, then all rational questions are valid, all answers tentative. That is because all knowledge is contextual.

            If the above is true, then the answer to the so-called "open vs closed" question becomes logically obvious, does it not?
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        • Posted by swmorgan77 8 years, 2 months ago
          Are you serious? Read OPAR.

          Primacy of reality in metaphysics,
          Primacy of reason and senses in epistemology
          Rational self-interest and non-initiation of force in ethics.
          Romanticism in art.
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  • Posted by Riftsrunner 8 years, 2 months ago
    Objectivism is a subcategory of the Humanist philosophy. So like all thumbs are fingers, not all fingers are thumbs; Objectivists are Humanists, but not all Humanists are Objectivists.
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    • Posted by swmorgan77 8 years, 2 months ago
      No. It is not a sub-category of any other philosophy. It is a completely independent, integrated system.
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      • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
        This is an interesting point, though I would guess you agree Objectivism is a category of philosophy? Objectivism is objective, rational, egoist, capitalist, and romantic -- as opposed to mystic, nominal, subjective, collective, or post-modern. Great. How then does objectivism not belong to the group of rational philosophies? Ayn Rand was an admirer of Aristotle and her work shared many similar elements. This does not make her work Aristotlean per se, but it would seem we can categorize her work as belonging to groups described by the features you define above. To the best of my knowledge, category denotes similarity of attributes, not identity. While Objectivism may be the only philosophy with an objective metaphysics, certainly other philosophies are capitalistic, for example.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 years, 1 month ago
    What do you mean? I think she described ade-
    quately what she was: an Objectivist. True, some
    people like to use the term "secular humanist", often as a pejorative, as distinguished from a re-
    ligionist. She believed in the material world, the
    world knowable to reason, so, in that respect,
    I would say she was a "humanist"--or at least,
    secular. But she did not say that man can change the nature of reality, or that the laws of
    nature will change because he says so.
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  • Posted by dwlievert 8 years, 2 months ago
    I would argue that if Reason must be man's only absolute, and I agree that it must, then all rational questions are valid, all answers tentative. That is because all knowledge is contextual.

    If the above is true, then the answer to the so-called "open vs closed" question becomes logically obvious, does it not?
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    • Posted by DavidKelley 8 years, 2 months ago
      I would answer Yes and No. Yes: reason is the only absolute and standard for all knowledge, and all rational questions are valid (understanding that some questions are ill-formed or based on invalid assumptions). And yes, knowledge is contextual.
      No: While I agree that this approach settles the "open. vs. closed" issue, there are other issues. Those on the "closed" side claim that Rand wanted "Objectivism" to stand just for her views, nothing less but nothing more. Doesn't make sense to me, but there we are.....
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      • Posted by dwlievert 8 years, 2 months ago
        What should, and likely DOES, make sense to you, is CONTEXT.

        Rand was concerned with BEHAVIOR. "Wear" her philosophy in your actions not on your sleeve. When you choose the latter you had best be consistent with her views.

        By representing the former David, you have done more for the works of Rand than perhaps anyone. Had you arrived on the scene sooner, it would not have been almost 70 years since the publishing of Atlas without any significant political results!

        However, it will not be another 70 before the results of her (and your) efforts manifest........
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
    Strictly speaking, not a Humanist, but Objectivism embraces much of the Humanist philosophy.They overlap to a surprising degree.My son's funeral was conducted by a female secular humanist rabbi. When the funeral overflowed the small chapel, it was moved to a bigger venue with many confused people, some of whom wondered if they were committing a sin.
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