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The Problem with Socialism

Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 4 months ago to Books
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From the publisher:
What’s the Problem with Socialism? Let’s start with…everything. So says bestselling author and professor of economics Thomas J. DiLorenzo, who sets the record straight in this concise and lively primer on an economic theory that’s gaining popularity—with help from Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders—despite its universal failure as an economic model and its truly horrific record on human rights. In sixteen eye-opening chapters, DiLorenzo reveals how socialism inevitably makes inequality worse, why socialism was behind the worst government-sponsored mass murders in history, the myth of “successful” Scandinavian socialism; how socialism is worse—far worse—for the environment than capitalism, and more. As DiLorenzo shows, and history proves, socialism is the answer only if you want increasing unemployment and poverty, stifling bureaucracy if not outright political tyranny, catastrophic environmental pollution, rotten schools, and so many social ills that it takes a book like this to cover just the big ones. Provocative, timely, essential reading, Thomas J. DiLorenzo’s The Problem with Socialism is an instant classic comparable to Henry Hazlitt’s Economics in One Lesson.

Thomas DiLorenzo is professor of economics at Loyola University Maryland and a member of the senior faculty of the Mises Institute. He is the author of The Real Lincoln; How Capitalism Saved America; Lincoln Unmasked; Hamilton’s Curse; Organized Crime: The Unvarnished Truth About Government; and The Problem with Socialism.
SOURCE URL: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christophernmalagisi/2016/07/31/whats-the-problem-with-socialism-n2199950


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    Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 4 months ago
    Socialists and so called "progressives" believe that the "common good" is to be enforced by punitive action and punishment. The old adage "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" is completely lost on them. The economics of Socialism is flawed but because their goals are based on wishful thinking rather than logic they have immunized themselves against reality, or so they believe. It is true that civilization is the result of people cooperating with one another. However, when that cooperation is forced rather than simply encouraged the results are unsustainable. Capitalism encourages cooperation by providing incentives to all participants while Socialism punishes those that fail to meet the standards set by the ruling elite. One system works and the other doesn't.
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    Posted by $ AJAshinoff 8 years, 4 months ago
    In a nutshell...

    "“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
    - Margaret Thatcher
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    • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
      And until the socialists do run out of money to steal, they loot from producers, pervert the thinking of would be producers, destroy free markets, and steal the freedom of innocent people. The damage starts long before the fake money created from nothing runs out.
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    • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 4 months ago
      AJ
      socialism IS the problem to say what is the problem with socialism is to break it down into components. there is nothing good about socialism in its entirety, so socialism IS the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    • Posted by MinorLiberator 8 years, 4 months ago
      A classic quote, which applies equally, or perhaps more so, to the mythical "third way", "mixed economy", or most widely used: "Welfare State". Although I applaud her use of the word socialism because "Welfare State" is the non-revolutionary, slow but inevitable road to full Socialism, which she gallantly tried to reverse, unfortunately only temporarily. Maybe the post-Brexit UK will fare better...
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  • Posted by dwlievert 8 years, 4 months ago
    Until Rand, the fundamental problem under which Socialism inescapably labors was never properly understood. It is this:

    The politics of Socialism are incompatible with the moral requirements of Man. More fundamentally, they are incompatible with the metaphysics of existence and the epistemology of reason.

    In summary, they are inconsistent with the nature of Man and life on Earth. THAT is the reason all variants of Socialism endlessly produce the results they invariably MUST.
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  • Posted by MinorLiberator 8 years, 4 months ago
    I don't really object to any of the comments so far. All capture some aspect of the problems with Socialism. But I think the fundamental issue was raised by Mises in 1932 in his in depth analysis of Socialism in his treatise of the same name. That problem being the impossibility of economic calculation under Socialism, due to its rejection of a free-market price system. There is simply no other way to allocate scarce resources to consumers needs by any other means, and the result is always disaster and poverty. His thesis became the issue of the day for academic Socialists, and they never succeeded in proving his thesis wrong. While Socialist ideas are still around as powerful political ideas, "scientific" Socialism as an economic theory died with Mises argument, and any attempt to implement Socialism must and has always failed just as he predicted.
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  • Posted by Steven-Wells 8 years, 4 months ago
    Imagine the following scenario.
    An old white-haired gentleman with a sometimes kindly demeanor, except for a lot of shouting, drives around your neighborhood and offers a free ride and many free goodies to unsuspecting children. Though many persons seem to like him, he is really a monster because he invariably offers the children free poisoned candy. He just doesn’t say it’s poisoned, though any sensible adult should recognize it as such. He disregards the pile of corpses that his candy produces and goes on to the next neighborhood—blustering away to a fresh crop of unsuspecting children, all too ready to accept his offer of free delights. When media warn about evil crimes being perpetrated, he angrily shouts, “People are sick of hearing about your damn emails.”

    Imagine the candy he gives away to the unsuspecting children is deadly, poisonous socialism. Now imagine that old gentleman monster is Bernie Sanders. Wait, you didn’t need to imagine anything at all.

    Bernie is a monster. He offers free delights via socialism. But it is a poisonous system of evil and death, with an unremitting legacy of social and economic destruction, along with history’s largest pile of dead millions. Why am I the only one who calls him what he is, a monster?!
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 4 months ago
      The problem is that a large percentage of the population is irrationally attracted by things being "free".

      Have you ever watched your coworkers get drunk because there is a "free bar"? These are people who can certainly afford to buy alcohol in sufficient quantities to become drunk without concern for the price. They generally avoid doing that, but if it's free, they'll make asses of themselves.
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  • Posted by LeoSopicki 8 years, 4 months ago
    An organization I used to work for had an office right next to the Pomona Freeway in Ontario, California. A co-worker and I were leaving when he remembered he was supposed to coordinate something with a person there, so he went back in and I just leaned against our car and watched the freeway.

    In the fifteen minutes he was gone, hundreds of cars, trucks and buses passed by, each with different destinations, routes, purposes, and options. I thought, a socialist is a person who thinks that they are capable of controlling and managing an economy thousands of times more complex than the those cars and that they could do it better than all those drivers individually.

    No wonder socialism ends up as a massive wreck.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 4 months ago
    The problem with socialism is that implementing and sustaining it requires massive and continuous initiation of force.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 4 months ago
    Adam Smith's gift to the enlightened is his recognition that the market is simply too complex, with too many unknowns for any agency to hope to exercise credible control. His "invisible hand" description of how the market operates has been misinterpreted as meaning God is the controller (I suppose that comes from his strong faith), when in fact he was simply describing how the operations of a real free market are so fluid and unpredictable that it seems mysterious.

    Pure socialism requires government ownership and control of both production and consumption, which is a task destined to fail, proven by socialist governments repeatedly. "Democratic" socialism leaves the means of production in private hands, but under heavy government regulation and control. The latter works, but at less efficiency than a real free market with purposefully limited government restriction.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      the other name or names for democratic socialism and its attendant democratic economics is state national socialism and state economics and heavily regulated by any means is the definition of both AKA Fascism.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 4 months ago
    I was on a train in a Scandinavian country earlier this year, and I saw the flipping KKK. They call them neo-Nazi's, but they wear white outfits and all that. I asked my colleagues what that's all about. They said they recognize there's only so much money for benefits to go around, and they can't let in but so many people. As an American, I imagine all the Google's and Facebooks people might create, and I see unlimited potential. These nice progressive people are rationing a fixed pie. Seeing those white hoods from the train gave me a visceral reaction: This is socialism. This is Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump. My colleagues there are good well-meaning people, but I want no part of socialism.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
      You forgot to mention Hillary, the bitch queen of socialism and O, the racist king of socialism.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
        How do u get "racist" applied to trump???
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        • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
          Granted I do oppose trump, but why would you think 'O' was a reference to Trump? ;^)
          CG already mentioned Bernie and Donnie.
          I would refer to Trump as statist, not a racist.
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          • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 4 months ago
            Trump is a statist only in the respect that almost everyone is a statist. The progressives have extolled our joint responsibility and "you didn't build that", our need to "give back" and all those other reasons to explain their hand in our pocket so long that with the exception of a relatively small minority, the issue is not what right the government has to run our lives and take our stuff but how much they should.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
              Trump has not promised to eliminate unconstitutional parts of the federal government and he won't because that would reduce his power as president. Trump has not promised to stop meddling in business and in individuals' lives. Trump has promised tariffs, not a free market. Trump is a statist.
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              • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 4 months ago
                No one is going to promise to eliminate unconstitutional parts of the government -- at least no one really could do it, so if they promised to do it, they would be lying. Cutting back is the best we can hope for in the near term -- and would be a terrific battle.

                If Trump finally straightens out immigration, gives us some fairer trade and generally makes the government a little less wasteful, I'll consider it successful and vote for someone who will do even more next time.

                As I said, almost the entire country is statist. You will not solve that by a dictator taking control who will, in a few short years remove all of the support for government that has been carefully built up over decades. You solve that by education -- and possibly a few good examples.
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                • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
                  So your solution is:
                  Resistance is futile.
                  You propose to entrust government to Trump, someone who has a proven record of looting for his own benefit, and who throws irrational proposals out just to get votes. Same old rubbish.
                  So just ignore history and conclude that no one will ever fix government so it gives you an excuse to consent to statist evil.
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                  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 4 months ago
                    No, my solution is that we got in this mess incrementally with a lot of indoctrination of the population to prepare them to accept an all-powerful government over decades. We are going to have to get out of it incrementally as well. Unless you want to advocate a dictatorship, we are going to have to bring the population along with us and it will take time.

                    Trump has used the system. I admit I do too. I think it's really stupid to have tax credits for buying "energy efficient" furnaces, but when I replaced mine I took the money. I guess I'm a statist too.

                    I don't think any career politicians is really going to make significant inroads in the power of government. I think it will take someone who has spent most of their lives in the private sector. Trump has done so. Yes, he does make me bang my head against my desk from time to time -- but then he may have a better understanding of what the populace will support than we do.
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                    • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
                      Turning the job of president to a megalomaniacal person like Trump does not achieve the goals you propose. He is the dictatorial person you appear to oppose.
                      Yes, the solution will be gradual but it must be done by someone who is ethical and opposes government programs. If you keep consenting to statist control, the gradual solution is just delayed again, as it has been for 30 years of GOP betrayals interspersed with aruably more "honest" Democrat socialism.
                      Everyone is not statist, but Trump is.
                      Back in the 80s New Zealand had a revolution in government and turned away from socialism to free market solutions. It you read the accounts from the insiders who achieved that miracle, its clear that it was only done because they were relentless in pursuit of free market solutions, not because they made continual compromises. I think this is an example that should be followed in the US.
                      (NZ gradually returned to more socialism, so there is no rest for those who know that liberty is the solution.)
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 4 months ago
    The problem with socialism and all the other isms is those in charge, those that rule and make the rules, are not engaged in the system. They hold themselves above it, almost in spite of it as the "favored class"; otherwise it wouldn't exist.
    The same but differently can be said about Capitalism, (the crony kind)...Our rulers are of the favored class, not part of the system but if they were...their would be no need for big government.
    Just the opposite of the thoughtlessness of Marx, Stalin or the Fabian Socialist.
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 4 months ago
    Great subject, brilliant treatment by DiLorenzo. Thanks, freedomforall. A friend of mine just sent me a capsule comment of the same tenor. I'd like to share it with you here:

    "The socialist poison in America is the greatest danger to our society. That's why HilLIEry is so dangerous - far more than Trump because Trump is really naive about these things. HilLIEry, Obama, and Sanders and the so-called "progressives" have created a path to the destruction of the greatest wealth-producing machine the world has ever known which they will blame on the very people who created it because a 19th century German "philosopher" created a ridiculous idea that there should be economic equality and that "the state" should impose this, and this would "miraculously" lead to peace and harmony. We have over 100 years now of how IT HAS FAILED EVERYWHERE!! And yet they insist that everywhere else just didn't do it "the right way". That's because IT DOESN'T WORK!!" -- Patric Hale

    Patric writes eloquently and enthusiastically pro-capitalism and anti-socialism, and has switched to supporting Gary Johnson. I may drop in some more of his comments that this group may enjoy.
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  • Posted by rls1951 8 years, 4 months ago
    The problem with socialism, communism, etc., is simply "people". This -isms fail because they do not understand that people have their own hopes, dreams, aspirations and desires and on their timetable not the governments. And no controlling government at any level will ever be able to supply what everyone wants. Capitalism works best because you at least have the opportunity to fulfill your own needs. Some fail, many more succeed. And can you imagine the level of corruption in a government that controls the distribution of goods and services? Will never succeed.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 8 years, 4 months ago
    I was surprised Any Rand did not get a mention, when it came to influences. The problem with socialism is that it is like a disease which gets worse, until it becomes communism.Socialism seems like it is all feeling but not reasoning or building. Greatness comes with capitalism, but not with socialism. Group think replaces individualism. It is all too awful to even consider.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
    Looks as if this is a definitive book I always start my anti socialist rants with a Thatcher quote "Socialism is good until the money runs out" or words to that effect.
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  • Posted by Hot_Black_Desiato 8 years, 4 months ago
    The problem with Socialism can be summed up in two words.

    "Human Nature"

    Be it for human nature, Socialism in theory is great but you MUST assume that 100% of the entire population works and strives for the benefit of everyone else without exception, never takes more than they need, and all surplus is evenly distributed.

    Since that will NEVER happen Socialism will never ever work.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
    I just ordered it on Kindle so I can read whenever I have time.

    The problem with socialism is that it just doesnt work. It flies in the face of human nature so much that the side effects of it overcome anything it tries to do and renders it a total failure.

    By the time one reworked and tempered socialism so that it actually worked, we would have capitalism.

    Same thing with monarchy. Before you would ever find the benevolent and all knowing person to be king, you might as well give capitalism a shot.

    This is all apart from the philosophical arguments against statism of course.
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    • Posted by JohnConnor352 8 years, 4 months ago
      THE problem, is that it is immoral and ignores facts of reality. The fact that it doesn't work is NOT why we oppose it, as "what works" is not our standard of judging political or ethical models. Socialism not working is a natural and unavoidable consequence of the fact that it tries to ignore reality. It is an illogical and irrational philosophy and political model. That is what we need to stick to if we are going to win this philosophical war. Arguing about "what works" only leaves open the argument that there just wasn't enough benevolent people, enough technology, or just not the right ruler.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
        I do think that most people are concerned more with day to day living than "morality". This is unfortunate, but I think its the way it is.

        I have pondered why socialism seems to be the "go to" economic system which is gaining strength every day- and it always seems to get a pass when it comes to its failures.

        I think not enough time and effort is spent on taking away this free pass. Socialism is a practical failure everywhere its tried and this needs to be shown at every turn to get the attention of enough people to turn the tide.

        High flying morality arguments are just going right over their heads at present.

        Ignoring the facts of reality IS WHY socialism doesnt work. Looking at what works is a pretty good indication of how a system is in line with the facts of reality actually.
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        • Posted by JohnConnor352 8 years, 4 months ago
          They argue "it works in theory, but not in practice" and then state that they just need the right people to run it. You can't win the argument if you start with flawed logic... That something is good or desirable if "it works." This is a central point Ayn Rand makes, that if we concede the moral ground of benefitting the collective as our goal, we have already lost the argument.
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          • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 4 months ago
            To argue results rather than morals when dealing with the non-Objectivist public is simply common sense, because those people don't and won't accept our moral code. Telling them our moral viewpoint is futile. It's like trying to talk a tiger into turning vegetarian as he prepares to leap on you.
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          • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
            So how would you go after socialism in Venezuela?
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            • Posted by JohnConnor352 8 years, 4 months ago
              Not sure we really need to, to be fully honest. Nor would it really be helpful. Venezuelan politics do not directly conform to our politics, so it is not an exact analogy, or at least not close enough to impress socialists. And if we "went after it" to help Venezuela, that would be an even more futile effort.

              You can use Venezuela as a way to support your arguments against the efficacy of socialism, but the crux and premise of your argument cannot be "we shouldn't do this because it makes people poorer." It should be "Socialism is based in collectivism, and it therefore denies the self and is inherently immoral. Every small step towards it is an evil. It's continual failures are evidence that it is an attempt to work contrary to nature, which makes it irrational and immoral. However it is not its failures that make it immoral or irrational."

              The moment you concede the "argue from results" method, you are accepting that the purpose of a government or political system is to make the public happy, improve an economy, distribute wealth, take care of the sick, poor, infirm, lazy, or just plain unable to contribute. While a free economy will certainly help all of these classes of people by making it easier and cheaper to obtain the basic necessities of life, that is not why it is desirable.

              I'd say that the best way to introduce this to a "rational" socialism fan is to possibly begin with some of its failures and atrocities, and then point to why any theory like it that is based on collectivism will, by its very nature, eventually result in this... Thereby introducing the flawed philosophy and having an opportunity to present an alternative view; Objectivism.
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              • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
                I will grant your argument stands on more solid philosophical grounds. But people in Venezuela and Hillary supporters here won't understand philosophical arguments. They would say free college is good for them. My practical argument is its not sustainable and your free college paid for by someone else will disappear when the someone else's get tired of working for you- and the college education isn't going to be very good anyway as private colleges who can't compete with "free" simply disappear.

                I agree that the response is. It would have worked "if only". But human nature can't be subjugated by "if only..." And will defeat any statist plan.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
          It is the reality of believing in fairy tales and lottteries. Nothing more complicated than that. Repeating a failure? They are taught it wasn't a failure but the fault of......(laundry list) The normal routine is to wring their hands and plaintively cry 'if only .....if only .....if only .....this and that and thus reassured go out and bash their brains in with any nearby convenient rock.
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          • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
            What you say is true. They do engage in "if only" scenarios ad infinitum. So what will it take to see a change? Even in AS the country had to completely collapse. I guess that's going to happen here too
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            • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
              “It does not take a majority to prevail. but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”
              Samuel Adams
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              • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
                I am not so sure that is valid today in this mob rule culture. Its all about money and propaganda and media attention. Eventually the mass of people just fall in line. Its disgusting.
                There is a small minority of people who really understand freedom, some more that kind of like it, but I think Romney was right that 47% (and that was THEN) just want free goodies and are out for themselves only.
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  • Posted by KnowledgeisaBurden 8 years, 4 months ago
    Socialism is the 'polite' way to force all to comply, always with your well good as a reason. It preceeds Communisim always has, and that is when the remainder who won't obey are forced. Both with the threat of the gun, one uses verbal threats first...
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