Are we like Rome

Posted by MagicDog 10 years, 5 months ago to Culture
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Some historians set the start of the decline of the Roman Empire at around the time of Julius Caesar and Augustus. The Roman and US constitutions have a number of likenesses and similar evolution from their beginning until they became essentially a political tool used, interpreted or ignored. The US constitution seems to be at the same “evolutionary” place that the Roman constitution was just before Julius Caesar installed himself as emperor. If this is true and we can use Rome as a template, maybe we can expect the US to drift into a long decline for the next 250 years until Washington D.C. is sacked.
The above scenario would probably fit into a picture of people sitting around in a futuristic fantasy world with embedded electronic devices. Inflation will get out of control while higher and higher taxes are required to fund ever expanding entitlements. The decline will be exacerbated by poverty, cultural decay, loss of borders and language degeneration.
Magic Dog


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  • Posted by $ johnrobert2 10 years, 5 months ago
    No, if the above scenario begins to appear, it won't take 250 years for DC to be sacked. Today's world moves at a faster pace and the makers of chaos and anarchy have much more potent weapons at their disposal than in former times. Look for it to happen quickly and with catastrophic consequences. The Dark Ages will seem the Age of Reason by comparison and for a longer period of time. I fear there will be no phoenix this time.
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    • Posted by $ arthuroslund 10 years, 5 months ago
      "Rome wasn't built in a day" and it took 475 years to tear it down. The US like Rome is huge and it will also take a long time for the barbarians to completely trash it. Someday a man like Gibbon will stand on the D.C. mall looking at the Washington monument on it's side and ask "what happened?".
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
        Yup, most folks think of Rome as "The Roman Empire", not realizing it was a growing, prosperous republic for half a millennium before turning to an Empire...
        It began to turn with Julius Caesar's bid for power, and within a matter of years it had an emperor, and from then it declined for nearly half a millennium.

        We rose in less than half the time, we'll decline in less than half the time. And it will decline for many of the same reasons.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
    There is clearly something to the comparison, esp b/c of corruption and empire. But I propose an alternate view.

    The electronic devices will revolutionize production the same way the transition from agriculture to mass production did. This will destroy most human jobs as we know them but pave the way for much greater production. Poverty will be a problem, but it's relative poverty. People aren't poorer, but new technologies are creating amazing wealth. The cultural decay will be akin to the loss of the culture of the Holy Roman Empire in favor of the Renaissance. The very concept of nation states with _borders_ will turn out to be a short-lived one in history-- just for the 600 year span when we had the ability to travel easily but not so easily we could trade valuable work just by clicking on a computer. The language degeneration will be nothing different from Latin disappearing in favor of the Romance languages or English losing noun case and all verb morphology except for present singular-- just history marching forward.

    We complain about taxes and inflation, but our taxes are good (could be better) compared to much of the world. I raise my prices once a year. If inflation is so bad you're having to do it quarterly, maybe you're just creating more value!

    The next generation will wonder how we got by without an army of automated machinery to do all the work for us. It will strike us as decadent, but we would have turned work over to robots as past generations turned it over to slaves if we had the chance.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
    http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Rome-Fel...

    "In the old days of republican Rome, the consuls— there were two of them, so each could keep the other honest, elected for a term of one year to thus prevent dictatorship— had been the executive pinnacle of Roman government. But in the decisive sea battle of Actium in 31 B.C., Octavian had defeated his fellow consul Mark Antony, who had soiled republican virtue by lolling with Cleopatra in Egypt. Nobly seizing the imperial power, Octavian became Augustus Caesar, the first emperor—and the consulships were henceforth transformed into honorary positions, vestigial reminders of republican virtue, and utterly ornamental.

    The consulships were not the only ornamental offices in Roman society: the Eternal City was filled with the comings and goings of impotent men— senators, magistrates, bustling administrators of all kinds— performing meaningless duties. Augustus, while seizing all power, had wisely left in place all the republican trappings. The empty show that resulted only emphasized the more the importance of how things were done — since no one wished to advert to the vanity of what was being done. During the four centuries that elapsed from the time of Augustus to the time of Ausonius, the life of the capital turned ever more insubstantial and brittle, so that some ceremony or other, meticulously executed, could become the apogee of a man's life."
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
    Julius Caesar was never emperor. A handful of Roman republican patriots saw to that. Octavian (his nephew, iirc?) went on to become Caesar Augustus, first emperor of Rome.
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