Hydrogen Fuel Cars--The Latest
Posted by hrymzk 10 years, 6 months ago to Technology
Hydrogen Fuel Cars which emit only water vapor, have arrived. And this story is abut the car stats and refuel stations, California style.
Currently Mercedes. Coming next year: Hyandai, Toyota, and Honda.. Cost per mile equal to gas. Range 250-300 miles
Enjoy this PBS article.
San Fran Bay can say goodbye to that blanket of brown disfiguring smog.
Harry M
CH4 + H2O --> CO + 3 H2
followed by several other reactions and purifications.
The key player in Honda's group that started Honda's H2 efforts is Cory Phillips.
When I was a grad student, one other grad student and I trained Cory
while he was an undergrad at Michigan. He's not John Galt, but you could
tell he was going to be quite outstanding. I certainly put him at least at my level.
Yes, H2 is a tiny molecule and treats lots of 'seals' as if they were window screens. And I seem to recall something about H2 embrittleing metals they seep into, too.
For the proponents of H2 from the Solar Cells on your roof, re-do the math. Some of the estimates from the linked sites imply that your rooftop solar electric could not possibly produce enough H2 for average driving consumption... unless you have an Al Gore-sized home roof. And it looks like they're not factoring in the COST of adding those PV cells to your roof... just assuming the power is 'free' because it comes from solar photons.
Unlike Obama's belief, somebody really had to mine, refine and ship the materials to the companies that MADE all those parts for your roof, and they don't seem to have infinite life expectancy, either. Anyone know of a company recycling 'old' PV arrays or even leasing them with options to replace them with higher-efficiency models as they're developed?
Anyone else ask these kinds of questions?
Cheers!
Yes, H2 does embrittle metals.
(A hydrogen fuel car of this type would *be* an internal combustion engine, btw)
be VERY pure. This is possible, but kind of expensive.
"So, in 2013, Governor Jerry Brown signed a new law that provides $20 million a year to build at least 100 hydrogen refueling stations in California by 2024. " - That's roughly two million dollars of tax money per filling station...are these going to be private filling stations or ones that California owns? If they are private, what makes this any better than the gov't giving subsidies to oil companies that the Libs are always complaining about? Huh Libs?
"Arnold Schwarzenegger’s plan relied on private investors to help build up to 100 hydrogen stations by 2010. But the plan failed." - So the free market would not support it? So we once again try to force the market to accept it using taxpayer funds...got it...
Californians deserve everything they have voted for over the years...just sayin'.
One market was New York and the other was Southern California.
So first our government blocked private industry from building fueling stations and then is taking tax money to do it after they blocked it from happening with a US company.
That makes sense somehow, but I can not figure out how.
Once again we are asked to totally suspend belief and common sense to believe another pie in the sky story. The only thing positive about this technology is that we could create hydrogen generation plants at these ridiculous windmill and solar farms and use up the surplus energy which is produced due to the lack of control as to when the power is produced. Also these wind farms tend to be in the middle of frigging nowhere so you have at least a 10% transmission loss in getting the power to somewhere it is actually needed. Hydrogen thus produced could be thus be trucked where it is needed.
I'd like to take a moment also to thank you all that pay taxes for subsidizing, ahem funding tax credits, for my solar panels, thank you all for paying for my electricity.
"Researchers led by MIT professor Daniel Nocera have produced something they’re calling an “artificial leaf”: Like living leaves, the device can turn the energy of sunlight directly into a chemical fuel that can be stored and used later as an energy source.
The artificial leaf — a silicon solar cell with different catalytic materials bonded onto its two sides — needs no external wires or control circuits to operate. Simply placed in a container of water and exposed to sunlight, it quickly begins to generate streams of bubbles: oxygen bubbles from one side and hydrogen bubbles from the other. If placed in a container that has a barrier to separate the two sides, the two streams of bubbles can be collected and stored, and used later to deliver power: for example, by feeding them into a fuel cell that combines them once again into water while delivering an electric current.
The creation of the device is described in a paper published Sept. 30 in the journal Science. Nocera, the Henry Dreyfus Professor of Energy and professor of chemistry at MIT, is the senior author; the paper was co-authored by his former student Steven Reece PhD ’07 (who now works at Sun Catalytix, a company started by Nocera to commercialize his solar-energy inventions), along with five other researchers from Sun Catalytix and MIT.
The device, Nocera explains, is made entirely of earth-abundant, inexpensive materials — mostly silicon, cobalt and nickel — and works in ordinary water. Other attempts to produce devices that could use sunlight to split water have relied on corrosive solutions or on relatively rare and expensive materials such as platinum.
The artificial leaf is a thin sheet of semiconducting silicon — the material most solar cells are made of — which turns the energy of sunlight into a flow of wireless electricity within the sheet. Bound onto the silicon is a layer of a cobalt-based catalyst, which releases oxygen, a material whose potential for generating fuel from sunlight was discovered by Nocera and his co-authors in 2008. The other side of the silicon sheet is coated with a layer of a nickel-molybdenum-zinc alloy, which releases hydrogen from the water molecules."
I have mused that the key to low cost reactions (chemical/physical) may lie in the production of a three dimensionally precise catalyst. This is how biology works, and it would seem that you could lower the reaction threshold that way.
Jan, wants H-car
Another issue is that hydrogen is not a source of energy, it is only a means of transporting energy. It has to be made using electricity or another source. If made from methane, the process creates CO, which is burned to CO2. The processes that generate hydrogen are not carbon neutral. You might as well get more energy and less pollution (if you think of CO2 as that) by burning the fuel directly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUg_ukBw...
Humans can't be "carbon neutral".
This chicken vs the egg argument is so much scrambled eggs. The roads and refuel stations for the original cars were, I'm sure, few and far between.in outlying areas.
We have this new fantastic info resource, the internet. There's a website for the natgas refuel stations across the country. Hours, pricing. etc Users can even give a quality rating for specific stations.
New tech is never to be bad-mouthed. Even though this or that one falls by the wayside.
Place your bets, oops investments, now
Harry M
Compressed natural gas is much better option than hydrogen, because it being the current source of hydrogen, is much more efficient burning it directly than losing a large percent of the energy in the extraction of hydrogen. As opposed to having roughly the same price per H2 vs gasoline, compressed natural gas is ~40% cheaper vs gasoline.
Once again this shows just how stupid our federal government is when it comes to running or investing in a business.
More than likely when I replace my car next (at least 5 years out from that) I will be picking up a Hydrogen Fuel Cell car, which means a Hyundai or Honda. I had a Toyota once and that will never happen again.
Water vapor is a more potent greenhouse effect contributor than carbon dioxide.