Ohio family held at gunpoint by police at Dayton Air Force Museum
Posted by stargeezer 10 years, 8 months ago to Government
If you look at license plates in a parking lot, you might be felony stopped? What were these military police and cops thinking???
Welcome to police state American style.
Welcome to police state American style.
Common sense needs to get a new name, because it is all too UNcommon anymore...
The summer camp I participate in deals with numerous LEOs from FBI down to beat cops. We spend a lot of time talking about the training they get and it is all combat stuff, right off the streets of Bagdad. Homeland security does most of the training these days, supplies materials and even equipment.
If we continue to train our police for war, that's how they are going to act on our streets. I don't think that's the right way. There are things allowed in war by the military that are totally against our legal system. A combatant in a land far away who can tell me where a minefield is before my men walk into it does not have a 5th amendment right - and I don't want him to. I want to know what he knows before my men are killed.
Remember that senator that persecuted people for plausible communism as a social desease? Shhh, don´t mention his name should anyone become devote to his tactics again. Fear is the perfect excuse for repression, and this has always been the case everywhere. Thank God in Him We Trust...
I have to differ with you as to the IQ of police officers. The problem isn't them so much as the lack of proper training and supervision. due to the extreme and violent criminal behavior of so many in our population, the police have wrongly chosen to react aggressively in all contacts instead of making commonsense decisions. training should include commonsense classes as well as some history in how policemen and women used to deal with people. Yes, they are exposed to risk at all times, but that is simply part of the job.
The solution is not to treat people roughly without cause. Elderly and children are seldom the cause of problems. this however can be risky during domestic situations were alcohol and other passions can result in dramatic outbursts of violence.
To the police, yes, be careful out there, but also be reasonable in assesing risks. No one wants you hurt, but no one wants a 65 year old grandmother or a 5 year old child hurt either.
Fred Speckmann
commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
I have to differ with you as to the IQ of police officers. The problem isn't them so much as the lack of proper training and supervision. due to the extreme and violent criminal behavior of so many in our population, the police have wrongly chosen to react aggressively in all contacts instead of making commonsense decisions. training should include commonsense classes as well as some history in how policemen and women used to deal with people. Yes, they are exposed to risk at all times, but that is simply part of the job.
The solution is not to treat people roughly without cause. Elderly and children are seldom the cause of problems. this however can be risky during domestic situations were alcohol and other passions can result in dramatic outbursts of violence.
To the police, yes, be careful out there, but also be reasonable in assesing risks. No one wants you hurt, but no one wants a 65 year old grandmother or a 5 year old child hurt either.
Fred Speckmann
commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
I'm not a cop basher and the things I complain about are NOT because I got a ticket this week, because I haven't had any in a long time. My last ticket was in 1982, I'm a member of the sheriff's Posey and have been on many ride-alongs. I also thrown a couple police appreciation whole hog cookouts that always include some shooting on my range with some guns few have ever seen. I'm far from a LEO basher but there are a number of recent events that are problematic for police everywhere.
Wish you the best my friend.
Larry
My apologies stargeezer, as you can see on my post that you received, I addressed it to starguy but clicked on your reply button. sorry,
Fred
Actually Fred, I think I messed up. In any event, I agree with your post. They need better training and that does not mean combat training. Which is what they get now.
The summer camp I participate in deals with numerous LEOs from FBI down to beat cops. We spend a lot of time talking about the training they get and it is all combat stuff, right off the streets of Bagdad. Homeland security does most of the training these days, supplies materials and even equipment.
If we continue to train our police for war, that's how they are going to act on our streets. I don't think that's the right way. There are things allowed in war by the military that are totally against our legal system. A combatant in a land far away who can tell me where a minefield is before my men walk into it does not have a 5th amendment right - and I don't want him to. I want to know what he knows before my men are killed.
Simply controlling the situation and getting license/registration would've defused the entire scenario.
This behavior is that of a bully and coward. Very undesirable, sometimes found among police.
We play the license plate game (we have four left to find, and have already found Hawaii and Alaska).
We'll report if/when it happens.
Hearsay report - is it enough to arrest someone? Is looking at cars a crime now? Interesting how that line is getting blurry.
.
"Sir! Are you the unfit mother!?" "What?" (tazer)
"Ok sir. You are a certain individual..."
America is f'n finished. It's over....
By the actions of the DOJ and the administration, the LEO community has been given the green light to go bananas and ignore whatever common sense they might have.
Here, this one goes in your mouth, this one in your ear, and this one in your butt. **Uncooperative beeping from diagnostic machine**
Ooop, wait a minute, this one, rrrr, no this one, goes in your mouth, and this one..."
"Don't worry scro, there's plenty of tards out there living kick-ass lives. My ex-wife was 'tarded; she's a pilot now..."
The museum is supposed to be a PR device between the Civ and Mil sides, kinda like the Thunderbirds, etc., to show the military in a positive light... what it ended up being was good PR on how you should expect to be treated when stopped by our now-militarized federalized Homeland-security Oriented Law Enforcement in the future... a lesson those very young kids will remember for a long long time.
Just a side note. I go on and off mil bases as part of my job. When you go on base, they get your license and registration. As such, the "It came back stolen" had to have been a CYA move to cover a major screwup, trying to whitewash why proper proedures weren't followed. a "License, Registration, and Proof of Insurance" stop by the cop when they left would have sorted that out immediately. The cops (assuming the SP's per the actions they made the civillians take) overreacted to a non-issue.
If what you say is true, Susanne, wonder what the screw up was to provoke this LEO behavior?
That's insane.
My brother had reported it stolen six months earlier, and it was recovered. But the recovery never made it into the database. Routine check of the plate? "STOLEN."
Had him up against the car for frisking. Frisker pats him down, comes upon something dangerous at my brother's knee. "WHAT'S THAT?" the cop asked. "My prosthesis," says my brother. "YOUR WHAT?" The other cop calmly says, "He means his wooden leg."
These things happen. I approached a police scene one night with my pickup truck and trailer. Not wanting to cause trouble, and not wanting to have to turn around in tight quarters, I remained at a respectful distance. OOPS, WRONG ACTION. One cop was motioning with his flashlight, which he occasionally shined right into my face, for me to drive forwards. I didn't move my truck as he requested because I had no idea of what he wanted. He finally walked back to where I was. incensed that I had made him walk that far. He said I could be arrested for failure to obey a police officer. Apparently, according to a police chief I spoke to months later, the cops feel that anyone who hangs back from a checkpoint (oh, THAT'S what it was!) has something to hide and is about to turn (a truck and horse trailer?) and run.
These things happen. Cops have a difficult job, and may have to make split-second decisions based on very little evidence.
What happened to being innocent until proved guilty? What if the driver had a concealed carry gun? Would she have been shot on the way out of the van?
We've got to put a end to police being trained to act like military.
Now, apply that to some other situation, lets say a drug interdiction raid. Again the people there might not pose any problem or threat - because the "informant" lied. It's just a home with a normal family inside. Dad, Mom and a couple teens. Dad hears a crash downstairs and a bunch of yelling, he grabs his pistol and tells his wife to get the kids to their closet, where he keeps a shotgun. He heads down the stairs and just as he comes into view the hipped up cops see a gun with a gun pointing in their direction and shoot 45 rounds into him. he's dead before his body reaches the bottom of the stairs. As the officers reach the master bedroom, they open the closet door and seeing Mom with the shotgun pointed at them, they shoot her 12 times, and the two teens are also seriously wounded by bullets that passed through their mother.
In a few more minutes, it's announced that any threat has been eliminated and they begin to search the home for the "crack lab" the informant told them was there.
Of course no lab is found. The officers who shot the family are comforted by their buddies that they "did what they had to do." They are placed on paid leave and visit the police shrink, who assures them that they did their duty as they had been trained and how sometimes in a war things happen that nobody is happy about, but the job must be done. In two weeks they are back on the job and the next week they are assisting in another raid.
This might sound like a TV drama, but I can assure you that this thing happens every night. These raids and shooting occur every night. The families make a local fuss and sue the dept. which may lose the case, but if there is anything improper in the home, then they get called "justified" and the suit is thrown out. All it takes is for the teenage son to have a little pot or dad to own a unregistered gun and that's it. Case dismissed.
I'm not a cop baser, quite the opposite. However, the way these cops are being trained is shoot first and ask questions afterwards.
I can remember as a kid, and even now sometimes, seeing where people are from by looking at license plates in parking lots. We get Country Concert in the Hills in our area, and people come from all over the US, and world. It is nice to see how many places are represented on those plates.
However, we once went to Trinity Site, the back door to White Sands, via a state highway, and were met with a B24 flown at low altitude coming right down the highway toward us, obviously to scare us off. The military has its secrets, even though we pay for them.
Wish they would concentrate more Sheriffs' time on drug shipments..