Challenging Pamela Geller...
A THOUGHTFUL, MODERATE, INTELLIGENT response to what I came to view as the fanaticism of Pamela Geller. Facebook friends I value very highly often "share" Geller, and most certainly I read when I can. But after following her for some time, I concluded that is from the sadly dogmatic, fear (hate?) driven faction of Objectivism. Now, it troubles me that she calls her site "Atlas Shrugs." What she says has little to do with Atlas Shrugged.
Bad behavior is common in both the Christian and Jewish myths, but it either actions of bad people, or is description of inadequate human response to trying situations. such behavior is not proclaimed as instructions for all to follow as it is in Islam by 'the perfect man'.
-not just instructions, but unalterable.
Israel can perhaps be criticized for paranoia but this is justified as many Israelis are descended from those who have lived in European Christian countries and have suffered unrelenting persecution. likewise those who escaped from Iran, Iraq, and some who were bought from north African kleptocracies. If they defend their nation with vigor it is to be expected from the nature of the enemies who include not just the islamist fanatics but a long tradition of anti-semitism in the west now popular among 'progressives'. Many nations are now engaging in self destructive policies as can be seen in many stories on this site. Israelis have decided not to, there was a time when patriotism was admired in the west.
There are many black Africans who walk for months across deserts to get into Israel for work, a basic need their own nation and the ones in between cannot supply. Not just for these, when comparing the level of human rights, the essential freedoms of Arabs in Israel are higher than in any of the surrounding nations, or indeed any Muslim nation. Israeli Arabs are in iconic football teams, win beauty competitions and pop song contests, and sit on the high court as well as in parliament. There are a few who teach at state universities and loudly criticize the state they live in.
Yes, there are theocratic fundamentalist tribalist movements in Israel but there are also libertarian vegetarian gay environmental and 'progressive movements, look at the political spectrum in the parliament.
'A fair settlement with Palestine' is a typical moderate sounding set of words that is an outcome of prejudice. There is no settlement because any Arab leader who signed would be assassinated (from King Abdullah to Sadat). The charter of Hamas etc (still) calls for the destruction of Israel.
As for the article from Muslim writers.org, it is written in proper English but still contains the usual mix of deceit and prejudice usually expressed in illiterate invective.
I read all 598 pages of documentaries from earliest Zionist dreams to the latest "talks." I then opined that it seemed obvious from this documentary history that for years and years Israeli government had been gaming the United States, working through and agreeing to plan after plan, then finding, always, a reason that their own plan could not be implemented. These reasons might sound valid (instances of Palestinian violence, organizations swore to destroy Israel, and so on), but the plans were forged and agreed knowing full well those issues exist. Despite this, the "peace process" would go on, the plan would be agreed, the Israelis would sign--and then cite various reasons for never implementing.
Actually, several U.S. President have gone through this and really do know what Israel is doing, and that the United States is being used--and some have spoken out, very mildly, against the game. But no president can withstand the power and pressure of the Israeli lobby.
Of course, my friend then unfriended me.
Jefferson must have had the patience of a turtle; either that or he was persuasive beyond my ability. I suppose it depends much upon the seriousness of the matters to which one disagrees.
As long as one is willing to debate the issues and recognize when emotional arguments are made I keep trying to engage. It can be rather Quixotic though.
http://arabnews.com/arab-spring-and-isra...
This by a by a Saudi journalist. I believe this chap is still alive, a plus mark for one Islamic country.
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A summary:
What was the real cost for not recognizing Israel in 1948 and why didn’t the Arab states spend their assets on education, health care and the infrastructures instead of wars?
But, the hardest question that no Arab national wants to hear is whether Israel is the real enemy of the Arab world and the Arab people.......
The real enemies of the Arab world are corruption, ..
(lack of) education, .. health care, .. freedom,.. respect for the human lives and finally,
the Arab world had many dictators who used the Arab-Israeli conflict to suppress their own people.
These dictators’ atrocities against their own people are far worse than all the full-scale Arab-Israeli wars. ....
Arab states are in .. disarray, then what happened to the Arabs’ sworn enemy (Israel)?
Israel now has the most advanced research facilities, top universities and advanced infrastructure. Many Arabs don’t know that the life expectancy of the Palestinians living in Israel is far longer than many Arab states and they enjoy far better political and social freedom than many of their Arab brothers. Even the Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip enjoy more political and social rights than some places in the Arab World.
Wasn’t one of the judges who sent a former Israeli president to jail is an Israeli-Palestinian? ..
Now, it is time to stop the hatred and wars and start to create better living conditions for the future Arab generations.
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All this arises from an admiration of Israel and its culture (I am with you), a. relative contempt for Palestinian culture, and a pragmatic conclusion that "may the best political system rule all." Perhaps that, too, is your position.
What I say is that the Jews are the indigenous people, have taken back a small part of the land from the British colonial power -before that the Ottoman Empire -before that the Roman Empire. The word Palestinian is an invention of the 20C. During the British occupation there were Palestinian newspapers, unions, football teams, orchestras,.. the membership being almost entirely Jewish, tho' Arabs and British were not excluded. The Arab population did not consider themselves as Palestinian but as Muslim and part of their particular tribe. Many were not indigenous but brought in as labor by the British from Egypt principally. When under pressure the British divided their mandate into an Arab kingdom known then as Transjordan, and a Jewish culturally predominant area. By the way the pressure was not from the US (and allies) who despite being supposedly under the thumb of the Zionist lobby, but from the USSR and its allies since the west was closely allied with the Arab powers. The territory now named Israel was immediately invaded by all the bordering dictatorships kleptocracies plus Iraq (another close British friend). For various reasons the invasion failed, maybe the invaders hated each other so much they that would not cooperate, maybe the defenders had superior morale (some defenders had come from persecution in Arab lands, some from the death camps), but not from US (or other western) help which may have gone to the invaders. The invading nations were not there to set up 'Palestine', they each wanted to take more land.
Many Arabs were displaced, the numbers were put at the time at 250,000 according to Arab sources and about 400,000 from other sources. As many Jews entered Israel at about that time as refugees from the Arab Islamic nations of north Africa,especially Morocco and Tunisia. Some of them were bought -money was paid so they could be let out alive.
A previous point was that Israel has fundamentalist racial and ultra-religious elements - well it does but it also has communist, homosexual, atheist, and capitalist proponents and adherents.
Should Israel allow in anyone? Well it has taken in refugees from black Africa, VietNam, and south America, but it baulks at taking in those who are dedicated to wiping out its people and the nation. Other nations have taken a different decision (I live in one) by allowing illegal migrants to stay who, not only refuse to cooperate with the surrounding culture but denigrate and exploit it. The women wear shrouds, the men wear scowls (I think), many of then dedicated to blowing us up. You would know who they are.
The statement 'may the best political system rule all' I do not agree with. I believe in enclaves according to taste with free movement.
(As our khaling here has observed- a welfare state cannot survive open borders).
The current population of Israel has reclaimed its enclave, clearly not wishing to live 'under' that of the surrounding nations or even European cultures with which they have a long bitter association. There is a racial religious element that I hope will wither away (there as elsewhere) but some cultural elements are better suited to survive in hostile environments than others.
(Property rights?)
I call B.S.
Except for your dislike for Jews.
March 26, 2012
To the Editor:
Pamela Geller attempts to change the subject when it comes to her own vitriolic rhetoric against Muslims (Letters, March 23). But let's be clear: Geller should not be allowed to get away with playing the victim and hiding behind the mask of a "patriot and proud Zionist."
Geller's self-righteous campaign to show the world the "true face" of Islam is abhorrent and morally repugnant. Geller, in views she outlines in her blog, has linked Islam to bestiality and rape of minors, compared Muslims to Nazis and asserted that Islam inspired Hitler. The Anti-Defamation League has closely followed her anti-Muslim scapegoating and that of Stop Islamization of America, the organization she leads, and has posted additional examples of her comments on its website.
Terrorism inspired by fundamentalist Islam is indeed a true threat to America, Israel and democracies around the world. But in directing her rhetoric at the entire Islamic faith — indeed, in supporting campaigns to suggest that Muslims should abandon their faith entirely — Geller fuels and fosters anti-Muslim bigotry in society.
Sincerely,
Robert G. Sugarman
National Chair
"Advancing the scholarship of Robert Spencer, she advances the theory that deception and dishonesty are permitted to Muslims to advance their faith, although no verse from the Quran is provided as a clear instruction for this practice." -
The article was long winded with few actual substance about Islam. This reminds me of those who defend marxism. When practiced, it always ends in tyranny and huge human suffering.
Reason and Islam together is my litmus test
Tabari VII:94 "Muhammad bin Maslamah said, 'O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.' 'Say what you like,' Muhammad replied. 'You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.'"
There are many absolution's for deceit in the Quran:
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quo...