Is Islamaphobia Irrational?
Since a phobia is described as an irrational fear, Islamaphobia becomes an oxymoron.
Need proof? The following are some reasons for a rational fear of Islam and its Muslim followers. I use the word "some" because for the sake of brevity, I could have listed many more. Keep in mind that the following were all perpetrated by Muslims:
The shoe bomber
The Beltay shooters
The underwear bomber
The USS Cole bombers
The Madrid Train Bombers
The Bali Nightclub bombers
The London Subway bombers
The Moscow Theater Attackers
The Boston Marathon Bombers
Pan Am 93
The Iranian Embassy takeover
The Israeli Olympic Team massacre
The Kober Towers bombers
Embassy Attack in Benghazi
The Beirut Marine Barracks massacre
The 1st World Trade Center Bombing
The 2nd World Trade Center Attack on 911
Tha Achille Lauro Hijack
The Peshawary Schoolchildren massacre
If that doesn't prove that it is perfectly rational to fear Muslims, nothing will. However, that doesn't mean that one should run cowering when encountering a Muslim. Quite the opposite should be the case.
Need proof? The following are some reasons for a rational fear of Islam and its Muslim followers. I use the word "some" because for the sake of brevity, I could have listed many more. Keep in mind that the following were all perpetrated by Muslims:
The shoe bomber
The Beltay shooters
The underwear bomber
The USS Cole bombers
The Madrid Train Bombers
The Bali Nightclub bombers
The London Subway bombers
The Moscow Theater Attackers
The Boston Marathon Bombers
Pan Am 93
The Iranian Embassy takeover
The Israeli Olympic Team massacre
The Kober Towers bombers
Embassy Attack in Benghazi
The Beirut Marine Barracks massacre
The 1st World Trade Center Bombing
The 2nd World Trade Center Attack on 911
Tha Achille Lauro Hijack
The Peshawary Schoolchildren massacre
If that doesn't prove that it is perfectly rational to fear Muslims, nothing will. However, that doesn't mean that one should run cowering when encountering a Muslim. Quite the opposite should be the case.
I'm with JB, not cowering but not turning my back either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya
Can a believer of christianity or judaism be trusted to tell the truth?
Does the book that teaches Christianity or Judaism tell their students to blend with society until they are in a position of power and then they are to convert or kill all infidels?
Now, as for the birth of Christendom and all the bloody crap done in "the name of Christ" is a topic of a whole new discussion.
Actually, it is not a topic of discussion in The Gulch.
If a person is an Objectivist, that person does not believe in any formal religion, and is most likely an atheist. Although I must say, that Jesus seemed to be a nice Jewish boy.
Please read : "The Lies About Muhammad" , "Refuting Isis", an "Dymystifying Islam" for a start ... The primary difficulty with anti Islam speech is the bias built into the beliefs of the speaker (or writer).
The essence of Islam (per Muhammad) "You will not enter paradise until you believe and you will not believe until you love one another, shall I tell you of something which, if you do it, you will love one anither? spread Peace among yourselves."
Proslytyzing is not encouraged in Islam and, believe it or not, a difference between Islam and Christianity is the belief that man AND woman are both creations of God and are equals.
Objectivism, which at its core is egoist and individualist, is diametrically opposed to both (all) religions in purpose, origin, and the conclusions it draws about the world.
While Islam appears to currently pose the greatest physical threat to humanity of all modern religions, all mysticism poses a philosophical threat. All religions should be opposed not on their outcomes, but at their core and their flawed irrational basis.
Islam poses ZERO threat to humanity .... radical Islamists who are terrorist do.
Its like Jewish people do not pose a threat to humanity but many radical Zionsist do and have.
I know a few Zionists and their rhetoric is forceful, even radical. I have yet to see them move militarily except in self defense. Don't get me wrong, I have many contentious issues with Israel, but aggressiveness isn't one of them.
Ilan Paape has written about the issue often. ( He is unliked by many Israelis)
http://monabaker.com/quotes.htm
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/histor...
https://electronicintifada.net/conten...
there is much additional information, you just have to search.
The "war" was not a declared one when the Irgun massacred and unsettled civilians. It was much like what Palestinians d today and bother are/were wrong an indefensible.
That sound familiar to the American Indian atrocities committed against the settlers in the USA west. Both are terrorist acts
So tell me, do you speak and read Arabic? If so then I can place some credibility with you. But you will have to give me more reasons other than just what you state.
http://islamicresponse.blogspot.com/2...
Actually all of humanity has that rule.
The Qur'an itself commands its readers to commit murder and wage war against non-Muslims and their governments, with a view to world conquest. And nothing is too perverse or disgusting for a Muslim to do to a non-Muslim.
The Qur'an also says it is acceptable to lie to a non-Muslim. So how can you trust them to keep treaties, or to keep any bargain you make with them?
Anyone who wants to understand Islam should get a copy of the Qu'ran translated into English and just read through it. If it doesn't sicken you... or bore you to death with all the repetition of "God is great. There is no God but Allah."
Islam is unique in the pantheon of human religions, as it's the only one which ascribes to theocracy. There have been other religious organizations in the past that have attempted to wield secular power, like the "warrior Popes," but those weren't driven by scriptural pronouncement like Islam.
Islam is also the only religion that encourages deception, if it protects or promotes the faith. That alone makes it difficult to establish trust. It also opens the door to the Muslim to lie as an act of convenience. Graft, bribery, and corrupt practices are an accepted way of life in Muslim society, because "everyone lies."
I've had Muslim associates, and they generally acknowledge that there are difficulties in getting around cultural disconnects and gaining trust. Dr. Yudhi Jasser, a prominent American Muslim, has it right when he says Islam is overdue for a Reformation that moves the faith into a modern way of thinking and acting.
Until Dr. Jasser and his ilk prevail, I think we would both recommend cautious observation. Packing heat may be appropriate in some cases.
Politically incorrect old dino will profile someone who looks or talks like a potential Muslim.
I'm always friendly and polite; but make no mistake, I'm watching every move made.
I've had plenty of practice at such a thing as a retired corrections officer.
I also pack a pocket pistol in what inmates call "the free world."
As a former Boy Scout, I would keep their motto in mind. "Be prepared."
To explain, communist thought supposed man to be divided into two: capitalist and proletariat. The capitalist was attacked, in thought and action, on the grounds that his profit motive would be replaced by a system of communal ownership. The flaw, as we know, is that there is no restriction against arbitrary claims to ownership and no means of determining need beyond the relative misery of those competing for scarce resources. And, as Ayn Rand put it, "morality ends where a gun begins".
Which brings us now to Islam, and the Islamic Sharia Law in particular. Those who follow Pamela Geller are well aware of the struggle against an atrocity known as the Ground Zero Mosque. She points out to well-meaning but perhaps naive Americans that such a proposal is not a gesture of good-will or even of remembrance. It is the manifestation of a supremacist culture. This behavior, if it can be called that, is ubiquitous across the globe and totally consistent with Islamic practice. The Dome of the Rock being perhaps the most glaring example. It should be an indication to anyone that Islam, at least in its current state and possibly since its inception, does not recognize the cultural achievements of any culture other than it's own, which would be laughable considering Islam itself is no more than waring sects fighting for dominance among its own adherents, except for the fact that this cultural psychosis has expanded into civilized cultures in an effort to legitimize itself. This is due to the bad metaphysics that Islam holds fundamental (no pun intended).
Islam does not establish a connection to the role of consciousness (to perceive that which is), but rather seeks to re-write reality (and particularly history - though this is hardly a distinguishing characteristic among a long list of tyrannical cultures). But I will argue that Islam has no concept of consciousness. That is, it has no understanding that existence precedes it. Therefore, by its own admission, it seeks to convert or enslave all humanity in order to force it's own lack of understanding on others in order to legitimize itself. Yes, Islam is a second-hander in the deepest sense. Not like the communist who justifies his theft in a relativistic comparison to the lowest economic state. But a second-hander in terms of a war against consciousness, and thus also existence. Islam justifies murder by reference to it's hatred toward reality. If this sounds harsh, consider the root of the cultural conflict present in our times. It is, as Ayn Rand pointed out long ago, bad metaphysics.
If those who espouse socialism would read your post and substitute the word socialism for communism they might get a clearer understanding of the nonsense they want to rule their lives. If you listen to Sanders you might realize that either he doesn't understand what he's talking about or he's just a smooth liar.
All of the events together in the list in the OP were done by far less than a small fraction of a percent of the worldwide Muslim population. To damn an entire religion and all its adherents for the actions of a few is unjust and irrational.
Drawing these specific distinctions is important. A group defined by violent, anti-human evil, like the KKK or ISIS, is abhorred by any rational individual.
Blanket condemnation of a group not Defined by similar characteristics is just lazy. The innocent get destroyed if justice is by a "margin of error".
Not true.
Any way you count it, radicalization is pretty much agreed to be at least 10%. The latest count of Muslims puts them close to or even over 200 billion. And, as I pointed out, that could amount to around 200 million radicals. With 200 million radicalized Muslims all over the world, it isn't paranoid to think that there is one living in your neighborhood, particularly if you are in a good target area. Also, I am very careful to point out that it is that 10% group that is worrisome, not the entire Muslim population. That being said, it is perfectly rational to be suspicious anytime one encounters a Muslim.
Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man’s genetic lineage—the notion that a man’s intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors.
Racism claims that the content of a man’s mind (not his cognitive apparatus, but its content) is inherited; that a man’s convictions, values and character are determined before he is born, by physical factors beyond his control. This is the caveman’s version of the doctrine of innate ideas—or of inherited knowledge—which has been thoroughly refuted by philosophy and science. Racism is a doctrine of, by and for brutes. It is a barnyard or stock-farm version of collectivism, appropriate to a mentality that differentiates between various breeds of animals, but not between animals and men.
Like every form of determinism, racism invalidates the specific attribute which distinguishes man from all other living species: his rational faculty. Racism negates two aspects of man’s life: reason and choice, or mind and morality, replacing them with chemical predestination.
However let's keep in mind that Islam is not a race, but a religion... A conscious choice. On the other end of the spectrum we must also consider that most Arabs have no choice in religion, much like medieval Europeans did not. It's a tough issue, but we must find the balance between rejecting the religion without condemning a race simply because of correlation.
But if we are discussing rational beliefs vs irrational... Christianity is just as irrational and mystical as Islam.
If the conversation devolved as you described I would do my best to close this thread down, and consider leaving the Gulch.
You are right. And, for that I am thankful. While Islam is the predominant religion among Arabs, it is also adhered to by other ethnic groups. There are also Arabs who subscribe to different religions as well. It is a wonder to me that Homo Sapiens still clings to ancient philosophies which were born out of ignorance in order to explain what was unexplainable thousands of years ago.
1. The fundamental - He wants to behead you today.
2. The Moderate - He can wait till tomorrow to dispose of you.
3. The Peaceful - He looks the other way while you are being beheaded and sees nothing wrong with you punishment.
I will stop believing this when more "peaceful" Muslims stand up to the other two. I believe that the term radicalized Muslim applies to all Islam. After all, Islam teaches these abhorrent things.
Now, if you could only convince the jerks in DC ....
But that may be too much to hope for.
Can we generate fear, thereby fundamentally destroying the freedom from fear America once enjoyed, and inn so doing fundamentally change this nation to a cowering morass ready to subrogate their freedoms for a false shield, and our liberty to a dictatorial oligarchy that will generate more fears, er, protect us from fear while they enslave us as serfs to their evil plans and mannerism?
I note two separate events - one was when we dropped the ball and allowed our country to become weak, allowing these fringe nutcases to take actions that are not only mentally psychotic but fundamentally evil, and the second was when we fed into these nutcases to find, much as Germany found in the 20's and 30's, a national scapegoat to foist these fears, this hatred, this loathing of the untermenschen upon.
IF... you want to help the powers that be spread their lust for an American culture of cowering and fear, go on any website, or stand in a marketplace, and post (or shout) "Allau Akbahr". I guarantee you will join the ranks of the cowering fearful, thereby assisting the final plan of "hope and change". Or take it back, and make it not a thing to be feared, but understood. If you dare.
It is sad that the country through the wimps in Washington through concession, taking sides, and inaction, have caused the nation to be fearful. But that doesn't mean that people should be cowering in fear. However, there is no sense in acting under the pretense that we are the same country that it was in WW2.
I wouldn't call it a phobia because we do have "Reason" for concern. In the quran, there are 109 subversive versus that command a muslim to do harm to another. See: It IS about islam by Glenn Beck
If a muslim does not swallow the whole thing, hook, line and sinker...then they are not muslim...the same goes for all the perversions of Christianity, Buddhism, gaiaism, new age satanism, progressivism, environmentalism or luciferarians.
Also, there's the worship of Eris, Greek Goddess of Chaos. Seems appropriate in this day and age to worship the Holy Chao.
Suicide attack on IRS building in Austin, Texas
Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church shooting
Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre
Tim McVeigh
Columbine
The Aurora theatre shooter
Jim Jones
Planned Parenthood bombing
Realengo massacre
Erfurt massacre
Dunblane massacre
La Loche shootings
Umpqua Community College shooting
Northern Illinois University - Steven Kazmierczak
Virginia Tech
Most of the ones listed were white male, does that mean all white males are terrorists?
All discrimination is not bad. I discriminate against murderers and rapists. Against anyone using coercion. Which, by the way describes radical Muslims.
Since it is not clear who is or is not a radical I'll remain cautious. If I see a spider and I don't know whether it is venomous, I won't take chances trying to find out. Also, If I dwell in a place where there's lots of spiders, I'll be sure to carry an anti venom kit. Mine's by Drs. Smith & Weston.
The next step is for you say most of the listed terrorist activity is by people who are Arabic, so we should categorize ALL Arabs as terrorists (even the Christian and Jewish ones)
Your canned BS and ignorance helps recruit radical Islamists. read "The Islamist" and/or "Radical" by Maajid Nawaz and maybe it can help you understand. (Or, of course, you can keep believing the propaganda which only strengthens the radical cause.)
I specified the 10% or radical Muslims who use their religion as an excuse to perpetrate atrocity. Words have meanings sans innuendo.
Thank you.
I'm beginning to get Objectophobic with so many inferring that I'm prejudiced against Muslims.
and note that their identifying us as devils doesn't
cause us to recruit more devils for our cause.
instead, their calling us devils recruits for them. -- j
.
THEY (Islam) do not identify us as devils, some radical terrorists who happen to be Islamic do. It is that element we should fight NOT insult the ENTIRE religion
consists of terrorists. . the terrorists who exist inside Islam
call us satan, and it doesn't cause us to recruit more like us
to attack them violently. -- j
.
I'm happy that I'm not the only racist in this thread.
Where do these people get this? By inference? Read the friggin words. They have meanings people. Don't read anything into the words that aren't there!
My favorite party of Objectivism is to find out 'is it real and is it useful.' The others are Plato followers or as I like to call them Playdoughists.
After the election crap is over they will disappear again for another three years having accomplished nothing
You mean we need to put up with this crap 'till November?
What frightens me, or perhaps saddens is a better word, is that fewer and fewer of the mainstay contributors that abounded when I first joined the Gulch seem to be contributing less and less or have disappeared altogether.
You may or may not have noticed I was absent for three days. One of my twice weekly forced trips up to the USA where I assume my hide in the open act. Did my business and headed back south where it's safe.
I went to one shopping center for a few items and didn't make it past the third booth finally saying...I don't support left wing socialist fascism. That applies to all these butt-on holers. I think the pun was lost on the absence of intellect and sense of humor.
explicitly state that Only Radical Islamic Terrorists
are being considered. . it's a form of PC, I believe. -- j
.
in my estimation. . u.s. citizens have become very
good at it. -- j
.
If it's only the government being called Satan it's pretty mild a compared to verbiage I would choose. As another example.
I often wonder what all the 'high spirited' conversation would be like if like definitions were used...leaving PC out of it obviously
from our predominant Christian population. . maybe
I am wrong. -- j
.
"Vanity: my favorite sin".
DiNiro played "Lou Cypher" and his gopher was Macntosh. He was one scary devil. As the movie progressed he became more sinister and his nails grew claw-like. Ugh..
A similar term for our troops would be ragheads the current version of krauts, zips, slopes, etc. A step above NVA and VC to quote my war...a step below more derisive terms.
They both serve to dehumanize the other side and somehow empower the other side.
It's a psyops tool to be kind. But it works especially when used against the righteous true believer types.
That's the roots but the cultural aspects that engender the use of such sloganeering are far more pandemic in societies such as those in the middle east where thought control is far more advanced.
It still exists in Western Countries where it's taught at home and in schools as acceptable behavior.
But them in our country almost any form of immoral perversion is considered acceptable behavior.
islamic extremist terrorists already here to do us in....... -- j
.
among the good guys! -- j
.
Yet.
Waco - how many children burned to death by Jackboot Janet Von Flamethrower Reno's private Schutszstaffel?
Vietnam - How many US service personnel killed in Lyndon Butcher Johnson's War?
(suck an egg if you don't like the comment unless you have more time there in the infantry than i do.)
I fail to see how JFK , safely dead had any bearing. Other than having his orders rescinded by Lyndon B for Butcher Johnson.
It was LBJ's snowball from start to finish.
Of course don't let accuracy get in the way of urban myth. JFK had his own crosses to bear namely Bahia De Los Conchos. His legacy should stand on what he did do not what his successor did after this death.
Okay, here is my last devasting idea: if Islamist terrorist create civil strife in the US then Mecca, Medina and Temple Mount wipe from the face of the Earth.
As an aside, you might want to edit your posts to correct typos. They'll be more readable, and get more respect.
And do it without destroying the American Dream anymore than it's already been destroyed by our own government.Step Three.
ISLAMOPHOBIA - hatred or fear of Muslims or of their politics or culture.
Islam demands jihad, eternal warfare until everyone in the world is converted, conquered or dead. Over 250 millions were killed in the 1400 years of “peaceful” Islam. Islam imposes a brutal legal system - shari’ah. It’s “perfect man” was a plagiarist, pedophile, kidnapper, rapist, murderer, and warlord, who is to be copied as the “ideal.” Blood thirsty jihad and peaceful spirituality are simultaneously embraced. No other religious ideology teaches the inferiority of women, the killing and hatred of all infidels, the execution of homosexuals, the silencing of free speech, forced amputations, the stoning of rape victims, genital mutilation, and the violent overthrow of all non-Islamic governments and civilizations.
If you aren’t afraid of Islam or hate its evil nature, you are irrational, abnormal, or a candidate to be converted. Because Islam is a contradiction, expressing sublime morality on one hand (Mecca period) and bloodthirsty pillage, conquest, slavery, pedophilia and rape on the other (Medina period). All manner of evil and predation is condoned as long as the victim is Kafir (infidel), or it advances “pure” Islam, or mimics their Prophet, the “Perfect Ideal.”
One can only conclude that Islam is not a religion, but is a predatory system. Islam is destructive to any civilization that is based on the Law of Love and that is opposed to the Law of the Jungle. The fact that Islam is entirely combative, contradictory and intolerant toward all non-Islamic societies makes it clear. Non-Muslims must come to grips of what Islam actually is, and close down all Mosques, Muslim schools and deport them all.
Or “surrender.”
There is no “peaceful co-existence” with endless jihad.
= = = = =
Islam is a religion in the form of a political system. Or it is a political system in the form of a religion. Either way, it is the successful melding of the mystic and the Hun. A truly fearful combination. To date, no movie monster compares with this dreadful creation that we have Mr. Mohammed to thank for.
.
Since the 70s no religious group can compare to Islam. No political group can compare to Islam. When it comes to violence, torture and atrocities, you cannot name a more consistent enemy of the West and particularly an enemy of Israel and the USA.
The slow down and in places halt of 'development' in the 3rd world and developing nations has killed hundreds if not millions since the 70's. Many would argue that both are religions based on beliefs and faith and they certainly include radicals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
I'm not minimizing the atrocities of radical Islamic groups. Just trying to bring some perspective to stats that fan the campfire. There were over 16,000 murders in the U.S. for 2013. If they were broken down by political party, religion, or otherwise, would there be any basis for a "phobia"?
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homic...
I detest group smear; it's typically inaccurate. If the concept is true for the whole group, then fine. The "broad brush" can destroy the innocent.
C'mon, you know those Objectivists all look alike. :)
Excellent point.They espoused new and radical thinking, and based upon those ideas, built an experiment called The United States. Jefferson doubted that it would last more than 25 years. In a sense he was right, because it started getting altered in increments immediately after its founding. So, was the experiment a success? Inasmuch as it pointed out what could be, and should be the answer is yes. But as a lasting enterprise, unfortunately, no. It is like a plant that has been pruned down to a single bud. But it still has a few leaves growing.
Good gracious! I sound like Chance the Gardener (Chauncey Gardiner) in the movie, "Being There."
Choose your radicals. The Founders were radically extricating themselves and fellow citizens from subjugation and tyranny, whereas the Islamic radicals are instilling subjugation and tyranny. Islamic political ideology is not compatible with a Democratic Constitutional Republic.
“I feel” should read “it’s my opinion”
Objectivist look-alikes? You're right. A bunch of nerds wearing black rimmed glasses who refuse to turn their slide rules in for calculators.
It was my cookie jar.
I thought this was Herb7734's cookie jar. :-)
It would suck, if you incorrectly fell within someone else's "margin of error". ;-)
It removes any doubt on what is/was meant.
Bad behavior is not justified by citing other bad behavior.
I was putting what you said in a neat little juicy context, not criticizing that you justified bad behavior.
Gang bangers , men dumped by girl friend or wife,
Psychopaths , assassins , abusers and others. What was their economic source job or handout?
Certainly not reasoning beings!
Irrationality is cognition, thinking, talking or acting without inclusion of rationality. It is more specifically described as an action or opinion given through inadequate use of reason, emotional distress, or cognitive deficiency.
Irrational Fear . In clinical psychology, a phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.
Fear of contracting Clintonititis, Trumpetism, or Berniesia is not irrational and there fore not a phobia.
"........ typically disproportional to the actual danger posed."
Radical Islam is a "clear and present danger", thus recognition of that danger is not a phobia, but a rational assessment of reality (of those who worship death).
I agree. We have the ability to deal with people as individuals so we don't need to do this identity-group exercise.
By the way, can anyone tell me where the bible writers got the name Jesus? The closest I can get is that it may be Greek. There certainly was never an Ashkenazi Jew with a name like that. Possibly Joshua (Yoshua) or Jacob (Yakov) but no one was ever called Jesus.
Etymology[edit] The name Jesus used in the English New Testament comes from the Latin form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua (ישוע), related to the name Joshua.
The warts? I was thinking of King David, and maybe Moses in some of his bad moods. You see, the Tanakh doesn't mean to say that any of its heroes and leaders set a good example all the time. One must discern the good examples from the bad examples in the behavior of any figure in the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings.
But the Qur'an holds up Muhammad as the perfect exemplar in everything he did. And considering some of the more atrocious things he did...!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_a...
You just stated something I'm in complete agreement with, but you seem to think we disagree.
Don't make me crazy.
So...what's the problem?
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