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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
    Every time I reread this it is just as relevant to whatever the current national situation is as it was when she wrote it. Follow up with her "The Wreckage of the Consensus" from a year later.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 8 years, 9 months ago
    Khalling: Thanks for posting this. In 1965 I was in the audience at Ford Hall listening to this presentation live. You could hear a pin drop as Rand read the speech. It was preceded and followed by raucus applause. What a night! Thanks for bringing that memory back to me.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
      :) I was only 3 at the time. But I have enjoyed it several times since my early 20s [edited to remove "audio." I read transcripts until maybe 2015? that's when I discovered I could download]
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      • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
        The "New Fascism: Rule by Consensus", the follow-up "Wreckage of the Consensus" and a few more Ford Hall lectures are in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. All or most of the Ford Hall lectures were also published in her periodicals. These are not just transcripts, the lectures were carefully written out in advance.

        ARI was collecting audio recordings from its beginning and made them available on its website long ago, possibly in the 1990s but I don't remember the dates. I don't think the Q&A sessions were always included and don't know if all of those are available now. There was always an enthusiastic Q&A session after the Ford Hall lectures. I have some original tape reels, which I "inherited" from a student organization and did not record myself, of some of the lectures.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 9 months ago
    I can remember reading this powerful speech way back in '65. As I re-read it in 2016 I realize that it is more relevant now than it was even then. As a reader of science-fiction, I am disappointed that we are not on Mars, we don't have self propelled flying cars, there is no sign of a Star Trek world, and Ayn Rand is more needed today than 51 years ago.
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  • Posted by MarjoriePeters 8 years, 9 months ago
    Hello, all. I'd like to introduce myself. I've been a lurker for a very long time, but would now like to join the discussion. I read Atlas Shrugged in 1960 and was immediately changed. Rand's ideas were a justification of what I had believed for most of my adult life, but I was too afraid and guilt-ridden to assert them and live by them. I still cared too much what others thought. In 1961, I attended Nathaniel Branden's taped lectures on Objectivism in Chicago and met some people I could actually exchange ideas with, one of them being my future husband. It was an exciting time. In 1963 I met Nathaniel Branden's business manager, the man who arranged for Ayn Rand's speech, "America's Persecuted Minority, Big Business," a Ford Hall Forum lecture, to be presented at McCormick Place in Chicago. I helped by manning the book table, and that is how I met Ayn Rand, and Nathaniel and Barbara Branden. I was only a fan, but it was exciting to meet them. I have studied and lived by Objectivism
    all my life. After 55 years, all her ideas still hold true.

    I'm happy to meet all of you, and I'm sure we will have many rewarding exchanges in the future.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 years, 9 months ago
    I read it decades ago. I remember one quote (this
    is from memory, and it may be from the sequel,"The Wreckage of the Consensus"): "Com-
    romise does not satisy, but dissatisfies everybod-
    y..." that a partial victory emboldens the side which pushes injustice, and "the partial victory
    of an unjust claim discourages and paralyzes
    the victim."
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 9 months ago
    The part near 46 min where she talks about demographics of business people who bought into crony capitalism and the goal of preserving mediocrity reminds me of another book I read recently: Zero to One. This book says that the post-WWII prosperity led Boomers to the conclusion that success comes from following a clear career path and letting the rising tide lift all boats. The dot-com bust, Thiel says, led my generation to embrace this in the form of Lean business practices and reject notions of grand ideas that change the world in favor of incremental improvements.
    [Below are my thoughts, not Thiel's]
    The post WWII rising tide came to an end, and now people look for whom to blame. We have Trump selling the lie that it's outsiders and foreigners. We have Sanders selling the lie that it's billionaires. We have most people scared, like we're on a ship with no guiding navigational principals, that one of these people will enact tyranny of one group on the others. If we have no boundaries, centrism gives us stability, a reduced risk of the unstable system careening into one form of tyranny or another. As Rand says in this piece, we sometimes even get sanctimonious about our zealous centrism, wanting the cooler heads to listen to all sides and come to a compromise between all the various interest groups in society.

    My questions for Rand: How do we get those boundaries on gov't back? How do we make the groups not feel like they're unilaterally disarming by calling for limited gov't? It's not their interests to do so if the other groups will continue using the gov't to further their own interests. Is President LBJ an unprincipled man, and our system depends on having people of principles in office? (I hope the answer is no.) Then what institutions should we have to enforce those boundaries?
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    • Posted by jabuttrick 8 years, 9 months ago
      Very good questions. How to make the "groups not feel like there unilaterally disarming by calling for limited gov't"? Pondering this question made me think pf Harry Browne's campaign line: "Would you give up your favorite government program if you never had to pay income taxes again?" Perhaps that sort of "grand bargain" is the only way to stop the slide toward bigger and bigger government. But what politician today would have the courage to even make such an offer?
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 9 months ago
        " But what politician today would have the courage to even make such an offer?"
        I wish they would. It would be the beginning of a discussion, no the end. People would immediately think it's a ploy to shut down their favorite program to leave money for someone else's. It would be up to the coalition of politicians who promoted the plan to convince people it's real and won't be perverted into a funding someone else's program.
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        • Posted by jabuttrick 8 years, 9 months ago
          It would have to expressly incorporate the shutting down of the IRS. By the way, Browne often stated that when he asked this question the most frequent response was: "What favorite government program?"
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    • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
      All good questions. One answer is to undo by Executive Order anything done by Executive Order. Congress must also play their role. Some of these ABC's are fairly recent in US history. Why does their existence mean validation? SCOTUS is only one balance of three. Often their rulings are set up in such a way to throw it back to the electorate. However, they are to uphold the Constitution-which they have not upheld many, many times. Since they are lifetime appointments, this can be problematic-however, still procedural.
      finally, "groups" is not in Objectivist thinking. Your rights, guaranteed by the Constitution are individual rights, not a collective.
      The sad fact of Zero to ONe, is Thiel's acknowledgement of going back the way of Trade Secrets. Backward move for technological advance. That book sits on my dest and I refer to it often though.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 9 months ago
        "Congress must also play their role. "
        Basically you say the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches should all play their role, but they don't. This makes me think we need some other structure, something like our Constitution but that has some sort of structures and institutions that cause people to follow their roles. Maybe the structure would be different from the Constitution and not have three branches. I don't know how it would work. Listening to this, though, makes me think that our system of gov't depends on humans not having human frailties.
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        • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 9 months ago
          Unicameral systems quickly become the "tyranny of the majority." The wheels came off the wagon with the 17th amendment, when senators stopped being chosen by state legislators. The Federal judiciary shouldn't be a lifetime appointment. A ten year term should suffice in avoiding too much emphasis on politics, and limiting the damage one extreme judge can cause.
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        • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
          There is much, much more to this than conservative emphasis on the particulars of the Constitution. The Constitution provides the best structure devised, but it can't save a country from bad philosophy dominating its culture. The issue is fundamental premises and ideas, not run of the mill frailties. That is why Ayn Rand was always analyzing political events philosophically and explaining what it needed.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 9 months ago
        " "groups" is not in Objectivist thinking."
        I was saying with irony that cooler heads want a compromise between various interest groups, irony because if we rule out following a Constitution that respects individual rights and limits gov't, then a fair-minded centrist weighing all groups' interests is sadly the sensible policy.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
          it is still not sensible and should be called what it is. Civil War without guns
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 9 months ago
            Not having a working framework that ensures respect for individual rights is the normal historical condition of humankind. Is most of human history civil war sometimes with guns sometimes without? That question is actually moot. I don't want ancient human power struggles covered by a thin fig leaf. I want a constitution or some other framework that actually works.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 9 months ago
    The line about the problem of "statistics substituted for truth" caught my attention because it reminded me of the 2012 book The Signal and the Noise: Why Most Predictions Fail - But Some Don't. The books says we have so much data and number-crunching ability in the modern world that we sometimes substitute statistical analysis of data for logical models.

    It's odd to hear something similar 50 years ago.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
      I don't know the book. Was this author featured in a movie about stats? I think with Kurt Russell and Jonas somebody? it actually ended very sadly. sorry to digress
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  • Posted by PURB 8 years, 9 months ago
    I have it and other NBI records of AR talks available. If interested, contact me at Pen Ultimate Rare Books. Michael
    archangels@att.net
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 9 months ago
    We are fortunate that we have a complete record of almost everything Any Rand thought about, I say almost because with her death she could not think anymore, but while she was alive think she did and commit it to paper so we have it. This is an example of how timeless her thoughts were, 1965, and like everything she committed to paper we have it so we can know if we read her writings what I believe tragically is taking place in our, if it still is our country.
    khalling thank you for publishing this information.
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    • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
      In addition to her books, and essays now republished in anthologies, large portions of her journals, letters and marginal notes in books she read have been published in Journals of Ayn Rand, The Passion of Ayn Rand's Critics, Letters of Ayn Rand, and Ayn Rand's Marginalia: Her Critical Comments on the Writings of Over 20 Authors.

      Answers to questions and interviews have been published in Ayn Rand Answers: The Best of Her Q&A, Objectively Speaking: Ayn Rand Interviewed and Ayn Rand: The Playboy Interview -- in addition to numerous recordings of the audio, and sometimes video, of lectures and interviews.

      Her views on communist propaganda in Hollywood, including testimony before
      Congress, have been covered and analyzed in Ayn Rand and Song of Russia: Communism and Anti-Communism in 1940s Hollywood.

      Oral history from recorded interviews are covered in 100 Voices: An Oral History of Ayn Rand and Facets of Ayn Rand: Memoirs by Mary Ann Sures and Charles Sures.

      Private lectures and seminars are covered in The Art of Fiction, The Art of Non-Fiction and Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology.

      A comprehensive list and summaries of books and recordings is at the Ayn Rand Institute web site at https://estore.aynrand.org/ and the Ayn Rand Institute Archives contains a large private collection of original material.

      But what do you mean in saying that someone no longer thinks after death means we know "almost everything Ayn Rand thought about" as opposed to everything?
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      • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 9 months ago
        You miss the point, since she is gone she can no longer express her thoughts about what is going on. Yes, a significant amount of her thoughts do most certainly apply to what has gone on since her death. However, unless you know something I don't know once we die we cease to exit.
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        • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
          It's not a matter of what is going on today. You wrote, "we have a complete record of almost everything Any Rand thought about, I say almost because with her death she could not think anymore, but while she was alive think she did and commit it to paper so we have it." What does her death have to do with it? How does stopping thinking at death affect how much we have of what she did think about and document?
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  • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 9 months ago
    Each time I listen to Ayn I am more impressed with what she saw. From what it appears we will finish the last step in becoming a facist country in the next election. Hope I'm wrong. Thanks for sharing this K.
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