What's Wrong with the Gold Standard?

Posted by Rozar 11 years, 5 months ago to Economics
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I was thinking about how our monetary system has no material backing and just wanted some quick opinions as to why it's a bad thing. The reason I bring it up is because I've always promoted the gold standard, but gold only has value because people believe they can trade it, which is the same as our unbacked currency. Then again you can't decide how much gold there is in the world on a whim, as in by just printing more, so maybe that's the problem?


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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 5 months ago
    good question, rozar. I ultimately do not think it is about the gold standard or fiat. It is about legal tender laws. which allows govt to tell you what is and is not money. not only are legal tender laws a violation to contract freely, but they allow the govt to counterfeit legally. The real problem is govt involved in determining what money. before the civil war, the were no legal tender laws. There were tens of thousands of currencies in the US. We had unit banking laws which were not part of a free market and did cause havoc in the banking industry. Initial attempts to est legal tender laws were struck down as unconstitutional. President Grant packed the court and got them through. The only reason to have them is to counterfeit money. There is an economic theory that you can print your way to wealth. It is as absurd a theory s you can tax your way to wealth. There is more background on this on my husband's blog: http://hallingblog.com/understanding-the...
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    • Posted by gwcalvert 11 years, 5 months ago
      Monetary systems are just another means of government control passed upon the citizenry as making it easier to transact business. While they do enable easier financial transactions between two (or more) parties, they also wrest control of worth and value out of the marketplace and into the governments hands.
      Even when the U.S. was on the gold standard, the government regulated the price of gold to keep it stable (and artificially low) so as not to affect the value that they placed upon the currency it supported
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  • Posted by LionelHutz 11 years, 5 months ago
    It is about FREEDOM versus FORCE.
    When FREE people engage in commerce, they will naturally trade value-for-value.
    Gold, silver, and various other items have been used historically as money because men determined for themselves what was money.

    Fiat monetary systems are bad primarly because they are an assault upon freedom.
    They FORCE men to use something for money that may be (will be) of no value to them.
    There are evil motivations for doing this that I won't get into here.

    It's not fair to equate the gold standard to a fiat standard by saying the value of both derives from "belief they can trade it".
    Men have not freely come to the conclusion that fiat money has value. They are not freely exchanging it.
    The businessman goes to jail if they do not accept it.

    Under this line of reasoning, a gold standard enforced by a government is equally corrupt.
    A government should not be able to dictate what 3rd parties consider money to each other.
    The government is in its right to determine what is value to IT, and insist you pay your taxes in this form of money.
    But that's as far as I think it is reasonable to go.

    When men are left to their own devices to determine what is money to them, de-facto standards will arise.
    At this point, it may be beneficial for the government to regulate standards in weights/measures. But even here I would argue it is not NECESSARY.
    There will always, however, need to be laws to protect against fraud (counterfeiting).
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 5 months ago
    Yes...THAT is the problem. Our paper money is only worth something until the hocus pocus stops. Gold has always held it's value...ALWAYS. Which is why our dollar USED to be backed with it.... I think we should go back to gold and silver currency...then there's no need to back it at all... it just IS.
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  • Posted by LaissezFaire 11 years, 5 months ago
    Only when the people figure out that the government printing more and more money has the same effect as counterfeiting (causing inflation), will a gold standard be seriously considered. Unfortunately we are not at that point in the U.S.
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  • Posted by gwcalvert 11 years, 5 months ago
    Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it, whether it be paid for with a fiat currency, gold, chickens, blood or whatever.
    While I believe that the gold standard is better than no standard, the fact remains that the ideas of money, value and worth are all abstract. They are dependent upon what someone is willing to trade for them.
    I had more, but it was turning into a blog post, so I think I will save it for a another time and place. ;-)
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  • -1
    Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago
    A lot of nonsense appears in this thread. Legal tender laws existed long before President Grant. Legal tender laws do NOT force you accept government money. Ayn Rand was correct when she said that gold has value ONLY because of what you can trade it for. Moreover the US Government is on a de facto Gold Standard. You bring them Federal Reserve Notes, they give you gold in return. See the US Mint website here:
    http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/sto...

    Get a "Red Book" (Guide Book of United States Coins" by Yeoman and Bressett) at a coin store. While in the coin store, look at the FULL ARRAY of US Government Gold Coins that have been issued since 1985.

    Conservatives allow their politics to inform their numismatics, so they do not know the full history of the forms and uses of money.

    khalling was right about one thing: before 1861, the nation had hundreds (perhaps thousands) of independent banks issuing money. It was not all good money. But mechanisms of information called "Bank Note Reporters" were one solution. Also, as it happened, (and as I noted here), many of those local banks showed SPANISH coins though promising to pay in federal quarters and halves.

    That said, the National Banking System required that banks deposit GOLD with the Treasury. In return for the gold (minimum $25,000), they got federal bonds. Against the bonds, they could create their own notes to lend, up to 90% of the value. It was NOT fractional currency. Despite that, banks still failed.

    I could go on. I have quite a bit about numismatics on my blog.

    Money as a Crusoe Concept
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/......

    Gresham's Conjecture
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2012/......

    Debt: The Seed of Civilization
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/......

    Murray Rothbard: Fraud or Faker?
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2012/......

    Numismatics as the Standard of Proof in Economics
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/......

    Numismatics informs Economics
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/......
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    • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago
      Legal tender laws: " is a medium of payment allowed by law or recognized by a legal system to be valid for meeting a financial obligation." For any arrangement for which there can be remedy, one must accept such as payment. 31 USC 5103. Since you do not understand what legal tender laws are, your statement we had them before Grant is meaningless.
      "de facto" gold standard: would require a fixed exchange rate between federal reserve notes and gold. that does not exist. Your definitions need to be defined since they are outside the accepted definitions of these terms. As to referring to my post as "nonsense," your arrogance coupled with lack of factual statements is corrosive to the discussion.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago
        1. Federal legal tender notes were issued on March 10 1862 before Grant was president.

        2. Throughout the 19th century, as new minor coins and subsidiary coins were issued such as the half cent, 2-cent copper, 3-cent silver each Congressional authorization act set the legal tender limit of the coin. The 3-cent silver of 1851 was legal tender up to 30 cents. Legal tender had a definition long before Grant.

        3. You are perfectly free to write a contract in any form of exchange you want. You can open a gas station and sell for only silver or gold if you want. You can build a skyscraper and rent it out for bushels of apples. You are under no "legal tender" obligation to accept federal money.

        4. The government issues all kinds of fancy fiduciary paper. It is not all "legal tender." They issue medals and medallions, military decorations, all of them very coinlike but not legal tender. The law says that this thing or that is or is not "legal tender" in order to specify what fancy paper and which fancy round things are intended as obligations of the United States.
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        • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago
          irrelevant. legal tender lawsuits were ABOUT Lincoln's issue of legal tender before Grant. I was clear on this point. declared illegal under Grant, and then Grant packed the court. I said this originally and posted an in depth article. all of your examples assumes no remedy of dispute. A dispute handled in the courts deferred to legal tender. I will not respond further.
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