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Atlas Collapsed, by Robert Gore

Posted by straightlinelogic 8 years, 12 months ago to Government
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The result will not be an imposed “order,” but chaos, as the dream of world government crashes on the reality of producers who cannot and will not sustain it. The most dangerous predictions of the future are straight line projections of the past. A straight line prediction that governments will continue to grow, get more powerful, and perhaps consolidate into a still bigger and more powerful government may be the most dangerous prediction of all. Imposing order requires energy, and government as an institution is already spent and exhausted. The future is not likely Orwell’s totalitarian nightmare, but rather the human entropy that has engulfed the Middle East and Northern Africa and is migrating to Europe. Say hello to the new world disorder.

This is an excerpt. For the full article, please click the link above.
SOURCE URL: http://straightlinelogic.com/2015/12/27/atlas-collapsed-by-robert-gore/


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  • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 12 months ago
    An Atlas that did not shrug or collapse. That one must be pondered upon. Would that describe Dagny until the lights went out? And did not Francisco and John think she was wrong in attempting to continue to feed the beast?

    I think we know well what shrugging means, but what is collapsing?

    I ask these questions on a personal level. To date, I have maintained as a producer of precious metals from the ground, that mine is one of the most time honored professions across the centuries. Despite all the negative rhetoric about mining, I say that it is one of the most honorable professions in the world. Comes under the heading of "If it can't be grown, it must be mined". In the ancient Scythian tribes, the miner and the metallurgist were the highest esteemed members of society.

    I have been in gold and silver mining for nearly 40 years. I have helped, as a geologist, to find and produce millions of ounces of gold and silver. I worked for a number of years at the largest gold mine in the world which was producing about 1.7 million ounces a year.

    So, in the usual cyclical downturn and I got laid off, I and a very small group of professionals started our own little company and got control of some hugely prospective exploration ground in an old gold producing district here in Nevada. A year and a half of time and expenditure and the enviro-government took the project.

    In the name of a species that they chose not to list as endangered, they invoked a mineral withdrawal on our project.

    The irony is that in the face of the fiat currency based economic lunacy, I have now been prevented from the chance of producing real money. Gold. Do I shrug or collapse? Or both?
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    • Posted by term2 8 years, 12 months ago
      I think your profession will be one of great benefit to you in the coming years. it would be best if you mined for yourself and kept a stash of what you found for your own use- quietly and secretly.
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    • Posted by blackswan 8 years, 12 months ago
      If you've read her book, AR's AS was a combination of Atlas shrugging AND collapsing. Prior to Galt's movement, Atlas was collapsing (and continued to do so). Galt's movement was an additional, intentional shrugging that increased the pace of the collapse. They go hand in hand. Throughout history, Atlas has collapsed. Galt just made it intentional.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 12 months ago
      Collapse is imposed, to shrug is a choice. If, everywhere one looks, all one sees is collapse imposed by a corrupt and evil system, shrugging is the best hope for self=preservation, as well as for eventually bringing about change. As for Daniel Durand, the Atlas who did not shrug or collapse, he lived during a time, the Industrial Revolution, when Atlases did indeed hold up the world without shrugging or collapsing.
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      • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 12 months ago
        So, and this poses an interesting question, what does one do to stay productive while shrugging?

        I have pondered this at length and just cannot fathom not producing value. It makes no sense.

        There is the funny euphemism about flipping burgers. And Hugh Axton did that albeit producing the best burger around. But, it did not distract him from waxing philosophical, which was his area.

        Producing gold from the ground cannot be done just anywhere. Gold is only where you find it. The geology of Nevada is such that there is a lot of gold potential in the ground. But Nevada is also 87 % "federally owned" public land. And the enviro-government, the Department of the Interior, the US Forest "Service" and the US Fish and Wildlife "Service", and the EPA are now setting the precedent of shutting down such activity pretty much anywhere they want.

        The only thing I have thought of for continuing to produce value, and this is in the works, is writing about how bad this is getting. Writing about not being able to produce is productive? Perhaps so in the grand scheme of things and with the ever present question on every gulchers mind - what comes after the shrugging has done its job and the lights are out?

        It would appear I am answering my own question. But input would be nice.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 12 months ago
          The space writing about impending collapse is somewhat crowded, including yours truly. The space of good writing about that, or any other topic, is much less crowded. There's always room at the top.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 8 years, 12 months ago
    Excellent and well put. So, would buying silver rounds at this point be worth it?

    Also, any heads up on the sequel to "The Golden Pinacle"?
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    • Posted by 8 years, 12 months ago
      I urge everyone to own some kind of physical precious metals, not as an investment but as insurance against collapse. Metals should have exchange value for real goods and services, even if fiat currencies are worthless.
      As for the next book in the Durand family saga, you may be waiting on that one for a while. I'm working on it, but it is research intensive and I have other projects, including a financial newsletter, that I'm also working on. However, when the next novel is ready to go, you'll certainly hear about on Galt's Gulch.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 12 months ago
        Those of us who have precious metals will become criminals in that the government will make possession of them illegal as they did in the 1930's. The government will want us to accept their "new dollars" when the old ones become worthless, and trade ONLY in those. I am not sure if the precious metals could be used for large purchases like housing and transportation, but they could certainly be used for things like food and probably primary medical care.
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        • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 12 months ago
          without a productive work force which will ultimate not exist what is considered precious metals now will not have any value.
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          • Posted by term2 8 years, 12 months ago
            I think people still need to eat and have some sort of shelter and will work for those things at least.
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            • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 12 months ago
              who will they work for? would you keep your business going under such conditions? once the power grid terminates as a result of the government meddling all will come to a halt. as was written in Atlas the brain power of the world will Shrug. We in the USA are the economic engine of the world and as you can see because we are deteriorating the rest of the world is going down hill faster. All that is written in the media about an economic rebound is basic non-sense.
              move to an island where it is warm so you can eat from the sea and maybe some coconuts.
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              • Posted by term2 8 years, 12 months ago
                it will still be possible to farm and raise animals. the silver will be helpful to trade between things that are perishable
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                • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 12 months ago
                  And does SLL have any forecasts as to what Gold or Silver might be WORTH in exchange for goods or services after such a collapse?
                  My suspicion is that no citizen could amass enough precious metals 'currency' or 'value' to last very long after all... Hm?

                  i.e., what would an ounce of gold or silver be "worth" in, say, gallons of milk or loaves of bread?
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 12 months ago
                    "And does SLL have any forecasts as to what Gold or Silver might be WORTH in exchange for goods or services after such a collapse?"--plusaf

                    I predict a quarter oz of gold will have roughly the same buying power in the future as it had in antiquity, to the extent we can find a good or service that hasn't changed substantially since the dawn of agriculture.

                    Sorry for my silliness. Seriously, though, I am confident media of exchange will come and go, but a small bag of groceries will always be about an oz of silver.
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                    • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 12 months ago
                      Good luck on any estimate you make... if the collapse happens....
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                      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 12 months ago
                        "Good luck on any estimate you make... if the collapse happens...."
                        I don't believe a collapse of any sort is coming. I think the world economy will keep turning out amazing new services. I'm interested in the high-tech ones and thankfully have no need for the ancient ones.

                        Value is in the amazing stuff (things like music, books, shows, CAD models, and high-tech ways to view them) we create to serve one another in exchange for money. Dollars, bit coin, oz of gold are just media of exchange, not all that important. The important thing is people being able to create new things that other people like and keep what they create.
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                  • Posted by 8 years, 12 months ago
                    You are asking the right question: what would an ounce of precious metal be worth against other real, tangible goods or services. I do not know, but suspect they will be worth a lot more than those pieces of green paper we have in our wallets.
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                    • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 12 months ago
                      Thanks for the comment, but it doesn't automatically answer my obvious Next Question...
                      "Why?" (would gold be worth so much more than paper dollars issued by the government?)
                      They're lighter, easier to carry, harder to counterfeit (you don't need some old teeth and a furnace and stamping press just to make more "money"...) :)
                      Help me understand this!
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                      • Posted by 8 years, 12 months ago
                        From The Golden Pinnacle:
                        Daniel took out a double eagle--a twenty-dollar gold piece--and a twenty-dollar bill and laid them side by side on the table before him. He held up the gleaming coin. "For centuries gold has served as a store of value and a medium of exchange. An ounce of gold bought a man's suit in 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800, and now in 1913. It takes real resources to find, mine, smelter, and mint gold. It's divisible, portable, storable, assayable, industructible, and, I might add, beautiful." Daniel put the coin down and picked up the bill. "This is a twenty-dollar bill. It can be torn to shreds and thrown to the wind. Its cost of production is virtually nothing. It depends for its value not on any instrinsic quality, but on the willingness of people to accept it as payment and the promise of politicians not to print too many of them. That promise has been broken every time it's been made. Mr. Talbott, the law says they must be regarded as equivalent. I'll offer you a choice. Which would you prefer?"

                        There was no answer.
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                  • Posted by term2 8 years, 12 months ago
                    I think the value of other items would be set by the free market in terms of a quantity of silver or gold. Might be something like 1 loaf of bread would be worth .2 oz of silver or something like that. Best thing to have is silver dimes and quarters. Gold coins would be very hard to use, as they would be too valuable
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                • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 12 months ago
                  i have the farm. you wish to acquire some of the food i and growing. you offer me gold or silver. i ask what should i do with it? that of course is if i want to share my food with you. if you live on an island this is mute. what is millions to day stolen from us by politicians will not have any value either.the title of this discussion is Atlas Collapsed! as you can see that is the case.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 8 years, 12 months ago
    another excellent article that makes perfect sense...although i think the vast numbers voters will vote in overwhelming numbers to surrender inalienable rights for the "promise" of security from politicans as we slide into totalitarianism...and that also means a slide to economic chaos...
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 12 months ago
    I say spot on! They are, in effect creating disorder.
    Creating false information as in genetic modification of a cell, disrupts order; so to on up the line to the culmination of all those modified cells representing the whole organism...lets call it a Conscious Human Being, but it matters not whether we start at the cellular level, with knowledge, a thought or ideology...it creates disorder known as Max Entropy. It might not be heat related but creates the same effect.
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  • Posted by $ HeroWorship 8 years, 12 months ago
    Great as always Robert.

    The moral/political argument you present here - individual rights - is the root issue.

    And, from a purely transactional perspective, imagine having the choice to join (or not) the USA as a taxpayer. Would anyone choose a system in which the debt is 5 times the yearly income, and negative every year for as long as the eye can see? Where many choices that are individual in nature are cause of imprisonment? Where the harder and smarter you work, the more you owe?

    Or would you insist on firing those people?
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 12 months ago
    After reading all the comments I shall remind you the ability to impose order still rests with the current military forces.

    They have the size, power, training, ability, planning, and leadership with all the tools of the trade needed. It's about a 24 hour exercise over a weekend with business as usual by Monday morning. No tanks in the street needed but if shots are fired they are returned with ...how does that go? Shock and Awe. At that point there is no one to accept a complaint verbal or written. Total martial law.

    They also have the legal authority under their oath of office assuming a complete collapse of government or even if they, and they alone have this right and responsibility, determine the Constitution needs supporting and defending.

    Properly done the only 'violence' would be against the usual rioters, stupid students and the like burning down their neighborhoods for free booze and television sets.

    Which brings up an interesting point. The majority of male students signed a little piece of paper at at age 18 in order to get student loans and government jobs. Women still being second class citizens have not yet been added to that list. The men can be activated at any time. Once they signed that document they are no longer potential draftees but volunteers and potential selectees. Any problems the loudspeakers order all mail students on student loan programs to report to the stadium. In one gate out the other as conscripts...legally.

    I doubt that would be needed but one never knows. An Obama, Clinton or Trump might use that considerable power to staff the protective echelon's military formations or as a way of exerting control.

    In any case the military having the final ultimate legal authority changes the practicality of the other suggestions for discussion purposes. There job is to support and defend the constitution. They take no other oath and unlike a President have no escape hatch. Dump the Constitution by the definition of the military it's a duty and a responsibility to drag the country back under the Constitution by any means necessary..
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 12 months ago
    A good thought piece, and it brings one to the conclusion that one likely scenario of the collapse of government is the growth of "tribal" authority. Fiefdoms are a very real possibility, and some may grow out of the cartels that have a shadow economy already in existence, with an authority structure in place. The Italian and Irish mafias could see resurrection, and some new "warlords" among the currently unaffiliated wealthy might offer to undertake some sort of societal stabilization. The U.S. might then resemble China after the collapse of the monarchy, and it will take a long time to sort out the most capable and powerful oligarchs.

    In such a scenario, the only metal that's a reliable form of currency is lead. Ammunition and arms will become the measure of who's worthy, and who becomes nothing but a subject.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 8 years, 12 months ago
    https://youtu.be/_ZxScaEq2Ec. This link is to YouTube videos on Islam by Bill Warner, Phd. He explains what Islam is and it's constant need for enternal conflict. Basically, the way to solve the pestilence of Islam is it's complete annilation.
    Listening to Pamela Geller on Fox News, she states that Islam is a complete culture. It's a religion, gov't, military, justice system and cultural web. That is why it mustn't be tolerated in the West. These people will not be assimilated.
    Robert your conclusion is incomplete, the US and foreign countries will be embroiled in internal wars probably for years. Maybe, there will come out of this chaos smaller individual countries with smaller governments.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 12 months ago
    A man living in Mr. Gore's dystopia and about to die, saw his whole life pass before his eyes. His last words were, "Boring, boring.
    If such a fate awaits us, I'm glad I'm an old fa -er, person.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 12 months ago
    The first part says we have too much leverage in our financial system, which I strongly agree with. Toward the end it says, "Denied the opportunity to produce, would-be Atlases are not marrying or procreating, either." This is a logical leap I can't make. The leverage makes things unstable, makes crises more likely, supposedly provides capital to profitable enterprises but can also prop up politically connected unprofitable enterprises. I'm with you on all of that. I just don't see how any of this denies people opportunity to produce.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 12 months ago
    I have been anticipating a collapse into chaos.
    Should there be such a collapse and you live near a big city (like me), expect roaming gangs of looters and home invaders.
    Arm yourself with more than one firearm and stock up on ammo.
    Note to self: I need to do more in that department.
    Another note to self: Enough will never be enough about that.
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