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With Friends Like These… by Robert Gore

Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years ago to Government
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The US government is engaged in an epic, generational battle; its very survival might be at stake. That would be its battle against the truth. What it has never been engaged in is a war against terrorism, in particular, a war against state-sponsored terrorism. That would be because its allies are prime sponsors, and the biggest sponsor of all has been...the US government! The world owes an incalculable debt to Vladimir Putin for deftly illustrating both facts.

This is an excerpt. For the full article, please click the link above.
SOURCE URL: http://straightlinelogic.com/2015/12/09/with-friends-like-these-by-robert-gore/


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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years ago
    Hello straightlinelogic,

    This on going nation building in an area of the world with a population inculcated with political philosophies anathema to ours is folly. Time and time again they have proven they prefer totalitarian theocracy over democratic republican forms of governance. I just look at what folly our intervention in Libya was and how little threat a subdued Qadaffi posed to us then. Now, as Putin alluded, the vacuum our government created there is being filled with no-goodniks too.

    This altruistic tendency to make the world all better is filled with potential dangers our founders warned us about.

    "Nothing is so important as that America shall separate herself from the systems of Europe, and establish one of her own. Our circumstances, our pursuits, our interests, are distinct. The principles of our policy should be so also. All entanglements with that quarter of the globe should be avoided if we mean that peace and justice shall be the polar stars of the American societies." --Thomas Jefferson to J. Correa de Serra, 1820.

    "The Great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign Nations is in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith." George Washington, 1796.

    However, I think the question we need to ask, isn't what have we done wrong in the past? it is, what will we do now that the hornets nest is emptying itself and stinging us and others around the world? I am now of the opinion that the best we should do is help to support a safe zone or a city in the region that will welcome all from the surrounding areas the few that desire peace and liberty. Perhaps it could be a seed on its own. Enough of the whole nation building bilge.

    We should do less there and more at home. Let "Allah" sort them out...
    Regards,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by Bethesda-gal 9 years ago
    Hi Robert. I believe Snowden's first name was Edward, not Edwin.
    Aside from that, it's unclear to me exactly where this article is laying the blame for the imploding middle east condition. Yes, I agree that the U.S. has been a long time ally of Saudia Arabia due presumably to oil and I agree this is short-sighted as they are one of, if not the formost producer of terrorists. However I don't agree that the U.S. led coalition going into Iraq was entirely or even mostly bad. Iraq had stabilized enough to have over half a dozen local and national elections by the time Obama took over the helm. Yes, Bush broke - and fixed - Iraq. Unfortunately Obama touched it before the glue had dried and broke it again and from those cracks ISIS emerged.
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    • Posted by 9 years ago
      While I agree with you that some of the Sunnis who became part of Iraq ISIS did so while Obama was president, most of them date from the aftermath of the US invasion, democracy and the establishment of a government from which they were basically excluded, de-Baathification, and the incarceration of leaders of the Sunni resistance. So I would not agree with you that Bush fixed Iraq. Like so much of the Middle East, it was and continues to be "unfixable," especially when the US presumes to do the fixing.
      Thank you for the Snowden edit. I'll make the change.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years ago
    I think we should leave the middle east to the middle east. Let them fight out their religious wars on their one. Put our money into alternative energy
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago
    I am a moderate "isolationist" when it comes to foreign policy. When I read these things I think when you go out and do things, like try to give Iraq a more democratic gov't, some bad consequences inevitably end up happening, making policing the world a thankless job. To the extent we have to intervene militarily abroad, I accept the negative consequences. But I never understood the basic premise of why we have to get involved militarily. It seems like there must be some other way of helping rather than bombing, deploying troops, or arming foreign troops with questionable records.

    It sounds simplistic, but the Founders had this idea of the US being protected by citizens keeping weapons in their homes, and I think that should be our main defense. We certainly need a standing military to detect and respond to missile attacks, but I don't think we need to be using those missiles to attack individual criminal suspects aboard. It's so tempting. The foreign gov't can deny involvement. A high ranking US official can review the intelligence and act as judge and jury, and we can kill someone who probably has committed murders and is planning more. I actually think the military officers and civilian leaders forget that this is the way world worked before rule of law, and acting this way is a step backward.

    Your article does a good job making me think "US wants person X not to run country Y, but I just want America to be left alone and live life, creating things that people love in exchange for money." Really, how many Americans care who's in charge of Syria? People will say they care about the effects of the oil, but I say stuff happens in the market with the supply and demand curves for all kinds of things moving around, and market participants respond, often without even realizing it. If oil gets expensive, people will find a way to get people their energy and plastic materials some other way. I cannot be convinced that US interests require a trillion dollar (if you count all things related to military) standing army.

    So I agree and look forward to Part 2.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 9 years ago
    Very good essay Robert. Many peoples who have a strong ancestral ties to Eastern Europe find Putin utterly appealing. From what he says and his actions as the leader of Russia has shown himself a masterful player in foriegn affairs. He makes Obama look like a little girl a real pancy.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
    I have only one minor quibble, and that is with the statement that "the US is creating more terrorism". To assert such is to state that one individual can tell another what they must do without their own consent. This is simply impossible without denying free will.

    Terrorism is very simply an excuse to exercise dominion over another. It stems from the false notion of superiority over another and the conclusion that that superiority gives that person the right to inflict one's own views corporally (physically) on another. Terrorism is built on the premise not of equals looking to benefit each other through trade, but on the premise of a ruling class and a sub-class. Terrorism is an ideology, and the only way to perpetuate it is to actively spread that ideology. Those who argue that American wars or support of Israel in the Middle East (or the even more absurd arguments that industrialization and climate change) are responsible are in fact denying a core principle of being: individual responsibility. They are taking the Freudian tact that we are merely products of our environment: clay pots to be molded rather than self-determining beings capable of self-locomotion - action and consequence.

    Terrorists and tyrants alike make excuses about the acts of others in justification of their own acts of aggression, but the base argument is false. I am not the product of someone else's decisions no matter what they may be. I am a product of my own thoughts and actions. If I become a terrorist or tyrant, it is because I willed it to happen.
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    • Posted by 9 years ago
      That may be a minor quibble but it is an important one. Yes, terrorists make there choices, so in that sense my statement should be quibbled with. However, as a matter of observed phenomena, US intervention, bombing, other military action, and installation of compliant governments has led some people in the countries so affected to choose violent resistance exercised against innocent people. The proposition that individuals as individuals make and are responsible for their own choices does not preclude the proposition that predictions can be made about outcomes about individuals in groups, without identification of specific individuals. A better way for me to have made my point would have been to say: US actions will, based on prior history, prompt some people to respond with violence against innocents. It should be noted that the US government has engaged in plenty of such violence itself. Regardless of individual choices, for individuals, when considered as part of a larger mass, violence has often and will continue to beget violence among some members of those larger masses.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
        "US actions will, based on prior history, prompt some people to respond with violence against innocents."

        Again, from an outcome standpoint, yes, some are likely to choose to lash out in violence. I am not sanctioning the actions of the US you have cited or disagreeing with the conclusion. I am merely pointing out this statement is an assertion of cause and effect. However, the precedent need not lead to the consequent at all. Again, it is a choice of the individual as to how to react. One can allow one's emotions and predispositions to rule, or one can choose to rule over the emotions. I just can not sanction the reaction as being generated by the action as a scientific rule when dealing with conscious individuals ruled by free will.

        "Regardless of individual choices, for individuals, when considered as part of a larger mass, violence has often and will continue to beget violence among some members of those larger masses."

        True, but it is not for lack of a choice. They choose to respond with violence. They choose to use another's violence to justify their own, denying the responsibility of free will.

        So here's an interesting question: can those who start with free will after a period of allowing others to dictate their decisions for them ultimately reach the point where they lose their free will?
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years ago
    That's what we get when we allow the dumbest among us play government.
    Come to think about it...we see the same predicament in all governments...guess that's why we call them...wait...you know what's coming...or do you?...wait...here it is...........
    KAKISTOCRACIES!
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