Galt's Gulch

Hi. My name is Patrice.

Posted by PatriceAumann 11 years, 1 month ago to The Gulch: Introductions
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I'm very happy to have landed in the Gulch...a long-time admirer of Ayn Rand's ideas, I wish there was a Galt's Gulch to go to. I refuse to live as a slave, and hope to help bring about a truly free society.....it's long past due.

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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 1 month ago
    Welcome, Patrice. We had a free society, once. It can be reinstituted.
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    • Posted by PatriceAumann 11 years, 1 month ago
      Hi Robbie....Thanks for the welcome. We had a 'free-er' society than we do now, but we've never had a truly free society. Even at the start of this once great country, rights were violated. I don't fault those incredible men who created this country. They didn't have the knowledge we have now. We now know, thanks to Ayn Rand, the only moral system that supports and leads to a truly free society. And she showed why. And she showed why all the alternatives (all altruistic) lead to slavery. But I agree with you....we can achieve true freedom (ie a government that does nothing but protect our rights and outlaws all initiation of force)....when enough of us want it badly enough. This means educating young people....because very few adults have the courage to face their views and re-evaluate them. This means all of us who refuse to live as slaves stand up and be heard and say NO. But we are not anarchists. There is no freedom in anarchy....
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 1 month ago
        Well, true enough. Not sure there's ever going to be a truly "free" society. But with sufficient emphasis on liberty, we can get closer.
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        • Posted by PatriceAumann 11 years, 1 month ago
          Why can there not ever be a truly 'free' society. It means free from force. Any society based on anything less than full freedom sanctions violation of rights in some form....providing the slippery slope to violation of more. History shows this over and over. You're either a free man or a slave: to the extent you are a slave you are not free. It won't take everyone understanding this, only enough....
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          • Posted by PatriceAumann 11 years, 1 month ago
            I meant that first sentence as a question. There CAN be a truly free society.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 1 month ago
              An ideal to be striven for, but I'm afraid can never be fully achieved. The nature of man is such that that will never be possible.
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              • Posted by PatriceAumann 11 years, 1 month ago
                So you're saying BY OUR NATURE, we are doomed to be slaves......I reject that idea entirely. And until people can see clearly that there is nothing about man that makes slavery inevitable, our long history of slavery will not end. We have free will and the intelligence to create a government that will ensure our freedom. It's either/or.....you're on the side of slavery or freedom.....not both.
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                • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 1 month ago
                  I reject a philosophy that requires that I depend on a fellow human to have my same philosophy in order for me to retain my liberty. History shows that that is not the nature of man. Thus, I will always be vigilant to protect my liberty. And since my fellow man can muster forces greater than me, I must be willing to bind with others to protect the whole as well as the individual. Thus, I will always have to give up some of my liberty in order to retain my liberty. That is not a contradiction, that is an acceptance of reality. There will always be others who seek to dominate (you want to use the term enslave - I think that's too loaded a word).
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                  • Posted by PatriceAumann 11 years, 1 month ago
                    You misunderstand what 'liberty' means. It means freedom from the initiation of force by individuals, groups, or the government. Period. For like-minded people to get together and create a society based on this premise does NOT entail any initiation of force....the exact opposite. And this government would have police, courts, and military to fight against those who do not agree and try to violate our rights. It is possible. But not if you don't understand it and fight for it. Anything less is not liberty.
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