The Irrational Foundations of Conservatism: Edmund Burke

Posted by dbhalling 9 years ago to Philosophy
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Edmund Burke is widely considered the founder of (modern) conservatism. His best known work is an analysis of French Revolution. His answer was reason had lead men astray and they needed to follow the course of their ancestors and eschew reason.
“He argued extensively for an appeal to authority based on collective reasoning and organic reform while rejecting the use of abstract principles and individual reason in establishing mass rule.”
There is no such thing as collective reasoning. Conservatism is an attack on reason, the Enlightenment, the scientific revolution, Locke and the founding principles of the United States. It is time that conservatives admit that their whole philosophy is based on irrationalism.
SOURCE URL: http://hubpages.com/politics/Edmund-Burke


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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years ago
    I read the first paragraph and gagged.
    I think a lot of people label themselves as conservatives because they think the alternative is to be a modern liberal. When anyone asks , I label myself an individualist. I am still learning about Objectivism, a lot from the Objectivists here, and I thank you.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years ago
      I like your answer, Mamaemma. I will sometimes call myself an Objectivist or a Randist when I am in the company of liberals, just to give them a handy label to tell 'where I am coming from'. But in this company, I think that 'individualist' is a better term. (That way, I don't trip over someone else's definitions.)

      Jan
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years ago
        Thank you, Jan. I used to say I was so conservative that I made the conservatives look liberal. When someone would ask what that meant, I would say, well, for one I don't believe one should vote unless he is a producer. That usually knocked em off their feet!
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years ago
    Burke clearly was influenced by Hobbes' "Leviathan", in which Hobbes argued that the best interest of the people was served under the rule and guidance of a "great leader" free from the pressures of majority influence to make the decisions that would benefit them best. Rather than conservatism, it appears Burke's arguments support the move toward an imperial President, free from the constraints of republican government.

    Both Liberal and Conservative current strains of American politicians seem to favor an Executive with far more power than delineated in the Constitution, so it would appear both mainstream political parties have adopted Burke's "Hobbesean" position. The concepts of government promoted by Locke and Montesquieu have been abandoned by modern power brokers of political influence, primarily because concentrated power is easier to steer than distributed power.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 9 years ago
    "Conservatism" is an example of the dangers of trying to simplify a concept by attaching a label. Giving something a name creates the illusion of understanding while avoiding the rigors of real comprehension.
    "Conservatism" is like a sticky ball or Velcro. it's easy to stick something to it without having to explain why.
    One of the problems with the conservative label is the implied connection with theology. Belief in religious principals is more subjective than objective and as such it requires a very different thought process than say economics or physics. As long as the conservative movement retains the dichotomy of subjective and objective reasoning it will be at war with its self. That makes it an easy target.
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  • Posted by Bethesda-gal 9 years ago
    I think your premise errs in its foundation by lumping all conservatives into one category. Conservatives today encompass everything from Rand Paul to Trump to Carson to Tea Party, and undoubtedly other flavors as well. I'm trying to decide how to label my own affiliation and I think it might end up being: the-opposite-of-whatever-it-is-that-Obama-is.
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    • Posted by 9 years ago
      Words have meaning and ideological movements have philosophical foundations. Not everyone in these movements understands or agrees with these foundations, but those foundations define the direction the movement will head. In the case of conservativism it is clear they have pushed irrationalism, including in the form of pushing christianity as a political movement. They have also shown they do not care about the constitution of natural rights, instead they make up myths that the US is a christian nation.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years ago
        db, this was the problem I encountered in dealing with the word 'altruism'. The meaning of the word in general use is different than its technical description. I was using 'altruism' as it is meant today (and was wrong in doing so in a philosophical conversation).

        We currently lack examples of Liberal that is not Socialist and Conservative now means everyone-who-is-not-Liberal. I agree with much of what you say, above, but I do not agree that everyone who is termed Conservative is derived from the same philosophical foundation. It seems to me that there is some convergent evolution going on: wallabies and rabbits.

        Jan
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        • Posted by 9 years ago
          Yes, I understand that. However, I bet as you understand more of the philosophical basis of conservativism, the more you will see that conservatives follow these philosophical principles.
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          • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 12 months ago
            Perhaps. But right now what I observe is that people from different philosophical backgrounds are forced to present the same 'face' to the world in order to be electable candidates.

            Jan
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      • Posted by Bethesda-gal 9 years ago
        Yes, the conservative side has sucked up to Christian language more than I would prefer ( my heritage is Jewish but I was raised with absolutely no religious practice at all ) but the Republican side of the spectrum I feel is vastly closer to representing my wishes of the federal govt getting out of my wallet, my ( husband's) gun cabinet, my bedroom and my lady parts. The Dems want to raid the first two, and some Repubs want to make decisions about the second two. But still, overall I feel less intruded on by conservatives. SO, my question is, if neither political party is perfect, isn't it better to at least support the one that is the better of the two, and do one's best to bring it closer to what one ultimately thinks would be best ? Isnt the alternative defacto support of the one that is the worst ? If your answer to both is 'no' then how will things have a realistic chance to improve ?
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        • Posted by johnpe1 9 years ago
          I hope that Dale reads your comments carefully, because
          we do want to improve things by every means available,
          in my humble opinion, just as you say. -- j
          .
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          • Posted by Bethesda-gal 9 years ago
            Yikes. I'm afraid of Dale !
            :)
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            • Posted by 9 years ago
              Okay I can be short. I have been told I am the worlds best (worst) math tutor also. I admit I have shorter patience than average. The funny thing is that despite being considered the worlds worst math tutor, a number of people asked for my help with their calculus and when in college people often asked me to tutor them on other subjects. That is not to say they enjoyed the experience.
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              • Posted by Bethesda-gal 9 years ago
                Not short, just vertically challenged. Kidding. :)
                Yes, I observed long ago that I was very patient with things ( could sit for hours to repair, put together, etc. objects) but terribly impatient with people. Now I'm just impatient with everything and everyone ! :) Maybe that is just what Life does to a person. Although I am trying to improve; no sugar and no caffeine help in that endeavor but I am not sure it's worth it !
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago
                  I had to end up with the same formula. No Sugar use Stevia and no more caffeine...but no less. Of course I don't have to set the rooster on my alarm to seven if I don't wish to do so and even when it crows incessantly I can safely ignore it.

                  The trick with coffee is to use dark roast French or Italian levels which removes much of the caffeine and increases the flavor without turning into a Why Bother Double Zero. Milk or Cream is good for the bones.
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              • Posted by johnpe1 9 years ago
                my tutoring always seemed to take more out of me than the student;;;
                when they got to their Aha Moments, I felt as much tired as relieved!
                there was this late night with a calculus student -- more coffee
                than was humanly possible! -- j
                .
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years ago
      Good point Bethesda-gal. We have encountered this in other walks of life: biology, geology, medicine. If you get the granularity wrong, no analysis makes sense.

      Jan
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago
      You can scratch Rand Paul and Cruz they came right out in support of one of the hall mark efforts of left wing socialism called A Value Added Tax and attempted to say it was OK because it only applied to corporations. I really hate it when politicians think I'm that stupid and try to shyster such garbage in their search for votes. Any tax on any business is is paid by the consumer of whatever goods or service they provide. The only choice they offer is let's see I'll not buy anything from any corporation or donate to any LLC who backs a charity or a PAC I suippose they are included maybe not .

      It's a sham and it's something heavily favored by the likes of Nancy Pelosillyni. So if they are supporting Comrade Lube Job they are by word and deed to the left of most RINOS. Trump is no conservative by any definition. He's what you call a looter or a moocher. That leaves Rubio and the known Rinos to choose from in labeling them Conservatives and of course the top tier as RINOS are also not conservatives That leaves Rubio He'll go down next the others have to wait on the Bimbo Brigade.
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      • Posted by Bethesda-gal 9 years ago
        Oh that's SO depressing. Ok, so who do you like, Bernie Sanders ? Hahahaha. ;)
        But, really, what is your alternative ?
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago
          Listed in detail elsewhere. Don't support the opposition in any way, shape, or form, Do what you can to continue making them or helping them look incompetent. At the political level take care of your precinct by working with your neighbors but judging from the name that might be difficult. Attack the weak where there is the least amount of influence as much as possible. By encouraging others to join what is fairly a counter revolution for the restoration of the Constitution by using ballots not bullets and introducing other ideas you'll find posted here. Learn how to counter the progressives and that's a whole series in the Politics Section up at the top. under Catalog. If you know someone in the military politely ask "When are you going to up hold your oath of office?" Point out they have moral and legal right, duty, and responsibility to conduct a counter revolution and reinstate the Constitution and are the last legal authority that can do so. Suggest they have a lot of backing and that we don't consider them cannon fodder nor the women of the country baby factories as does the left. Left meaning RINOS and their supporters all the way to Socialist Progressives.

          Etc. Etc. Etc. Who do I like? Truth to tell. His or Her first name is General or Colonel and his other names are Martial Law if that's what it takes but it must be above all things legal.

          Who would I rather see running? None of the Above for the entire group so far mentioned. But in a form of guerrilla warfare I'm pushing the notion of Carly F. as a way to defuse the Hillary Bomb with Jindal as the VP to bring in a huge amount of votes that otherwise truly will be flushed down the Socialist toilet.

          Think about it it's the most win win win scenario I can devise the others are just the right wing of the left bought and paid for. So's Carly but she's the camel's nose and Jindal is the camel's rump.

          He adds votes big time and more than compensates for the Hillary lovers now she has turned her back on the Progressives and they will presumably to BS Ha Ha.

          the rest post again if would like to hear why that is a win win for the Democrats win for the Republicans and a big WIN for the citizens far better than voting for evil we use her as the Devil's Advocate to gain access but the price is Jindal for VP - or someone like him.

          I combined a lot of past studies in different area but the key is "Man's rational mind is his/her sole means of gaining knowledge, survival and happiness. The lesson of Objectivism. Bottom of the Preface in Objectivism in One Lesson. Why? Because it objectively examines all possibilities and determines what works and what does not work. I have enough faith and enough knowledge of history to know the the socialist fascist system does not work and never has.

          There is always an out, an escape hatch, a twist, a re-definition or a new metaphor or maybe for them methapor. Spin is just another word for deceit and in that effort ..ha ha ha they are also failures. But they'll swallow the Carly Ploy in a DC second cause their asses are on the line and they know it. Hillary figured that out already and that's why she's heading back to the comfort zone in the center of the left.

          And that's how you start a counter-revolution never refer to it as anything else nor as a violence prone or illegal action in any way. It is none of those. Gotta run it's time rip they a new orifice in my on going series.

          One last thought. The Jindal Vote ....and it might end up including Webb...The "Consent Withdrawn Party."
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          • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 12 months ago
            So I'll just chime in here and tell you that I worked for HP for seven years, including during Carly's hire and fire. She's a big a disaster as Trump. I can't endorse her and if you want specific reasons, I'll be happy to enumerate them in detail.

            If you're looking for perfection, you're going to have to run yourself for office. No one is going to perfectly fit your mold beyond yourself. So the question is are you willing to throw your ring in the hat, or just gripe about the problems in everyone else. The third choice is to vote for an imperfect candidate. I find griping to be a complete waste of everyone's time and I have neither the demeanor nor the desire to run for office, leaving me with only one option: to vote for a less-than-perfect candidate.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 12 months ago
              You misunderstand I'm not looking for perfection I'm looking for cannon fodder and she fits the bill perfectly. Why not let one of their own grind up one of their own? I'm looking for a way to 'metaphorically wink wink, blow up the system and return us to days of yesteryear. Why use up good loyal troops when we can use them the way they are used to using us. She is the PERFECT less-than-perfect candidate and doubtless will get all or most of all the opposition in ye olde firesack. The hard part was figuring out who would be in line to pick up the pieces that could offer so much (in the way of votes and what else is a VP good for) the temptation for that type of running mate would be irresistible

              I'm sure your enumeration would only whet my appetite for such a worth while effort. Your choice then becomes Jindahl in 2020 or 2024 or who...Chelsea? Carly F. is perfect she could probably suck in all the progressives too they are that dumb. Tethered what is used to entice the big cats? All you HP graduates get that dish which is best served cold...and the greater purpose for once is served. Minor purpose is the left will never trust the RINOs again. "Rebuke them all let Galt sort them out!"
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              • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 12 months ago
                I got you now. I understand what you're after now. Thanks for your patience. You're hoping to blow up the existing political infrastructure in the hopes that it spurs a revision back to the principles of the Founders.

                I think it's a noble goal, but in today's climate of low-information voters, I fear that that would backfire and instead push us wholesale into socialism. Who knows, maybe that would spur change, but I suspect that it would involve a bloody civil war first.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years ago
    Paine's Rights of Man (written in reply to Burke's Reflections on the Revolution in France) is worth reading, too. I doubt anyone here will agree with all of it; in particular he advocates a welfare system financed by inheritance taxes. But he has the right idea about what a Constitution is, and isn't.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago
      Ditto...and as A. Rand herself said examination of any ideal, idea, question, theory, or even a position backed uip by fact did not negate the need to examine all possibilities with the same care and that is not a quote but from memory.....
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago
    I finished it. It makes it seem like maybe Burke was saying he didn't want the French Revolution to go overboard, and then he came up with post hoc rationalizations to get to that conclusion.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago
    I agree. It's appeal to popularity and appeal to antiquity.

    I read the first half and hope to go back to the second half and the other article.

    I'd read Burke in college. This makes me remember a little and think I'd get something different out of it reading it at age 40 vs age 20.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 12 months ago
    And what if I label myself a conservative yet reject Burke and Hume?

    I think your argument is a fallacy of inclusion. I wouldn't call every conservative a Humist or Burkist as you seem to imply. And I would seriously challenge the notion that conservatism started with those two. They presented their own views on the matter, but they certainly don't predate either Kant or St. Thomas Aquinas, who offer alternative views on the matter (not that I identify with either of them either).

    In my opinion, the only difference between an Objectivist and a true Conservative is a belief in God and all that that entails policy-wise. A Conservative is absolutely for personal freedom and liberty. A Conservative absolutely is for the protection against infringement on personal freedom and liberty from both other individuals or government. A Conservative is absolutely for limits on government size and taxation. The main points of contention between a Conservative and an Objectivist stem from the philosophical difference over the existence of an afterlife and what that entails. The Tea Party are absolutely Conservative. The Republican Party (with whom I think you are confusing Conservatives) has very few actual Conservatives in its midst.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 12 months ago
      If you do you are blind to your own nature. You argue exactly from the positions of Burke and Hume.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 12 months ago
        Excuse me, but that gets a -1. You were the one who made the assertion that all Conservatives follow Burke and Hume. I follow neither and specifically presented other philosophers many Conservatives prefer who predate Burke and Hume, and your response provides no example, no reasoning - nothing but an unsubstantiated opinion aimed as to attack my capability to reason. So I guess I'll add ad hominem fallacy to the list of logical fallacies in your argument.

        Are there fundamental flaws in the philosophies of Burke and Hume? Absolutely. But to label others as their adherents without their permission and without any proof is unacceptable.
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