EMP not needed if you take out 9 grid stations?

Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 1 month ago to News
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are they practicing to take down our grid? . are we ready
to lose our electricity and internet for awhile?? -- j
.
SOURCE URL: http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/expert-san-fran-cable-cutting-possible-terror-dry-run/


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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 1 month ago
    The real fact is that the United States populace in general is not prepared for even a temporary outage - let alone something long-term. The typical emergency lasts 3-4 days - thus the popular 72-hour kits in emergency preparedness stores. My advice: if you don't have them (plus 1 gallon of water per person per day), don't wait. You don't have to spend $200 for a kit, however - there are plenty of resources to put together your own. But get them - and make it a priority.

    If you want to be prepared for a more long-term disruption, there are also options there, but they usually require either a significant amount of time to collect the necessary supplies at reasonable prices or you pay a price premium for the pre-packaged stuff you can have shipped right to your door.

    Other options to take a look at:

    - Become a member of your local Community Emergency Response Team (CERT). Many larger communities have this training once per year and some will provide all the materials free of charge. Training includes basic first aid as well as basic building search techniques (rescue is left to first responders) including hazard identification. Usually a 1-2 day class with exercises.

    - Become an amateur radio operator (ham). The US considers hams "national resources" - especially those who participate in ARES/RACES.

    - Civil Air Patrol. You don't have to be a pilot to participate. You can be a communications engineer (see amateur radio above) or even a spotter.

    - Weather Spotter. It only takes a short 2-3 hr class on severe weather phenomena to do this. You don't have to chase storms (they actually encourage you NOT to) - all you have to do is report what you see (and they train you on how to estimate wind velocity, precipitation, etc. and how to identify cloud formations as being potentially dangerous (tornadoes, etc.). All around good information.
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    • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 1 month ago
      I have a home brew 72 hour kit. It fits in one small backpack. Any time I drive farther than a comfortable walk home the kit goes in the trunk of the car. I'm also a HAM and have used my equipment and training during several emergencies where cell phone just didn't work. Most people think that a credit card and a cell phone will get you through any emergency. This is not the case, I know, I've been there.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago
      We used to see that where I grew up then lived for a while knowing the area occasionally got snow storms with outages of 3-5 days the amount of people unprepared was mind boggling. Meanwhile we just chunked wood in the wood stove, cooked on the top of it and continued with christmas or whatever.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 1 month ago
    There have always been two schools of thought regarding a national power grid: a nation-wide fully linked system that would enable the flow of energy most efficiently and help avoid regional blackouts; a distributed network of power cells normally in isolation, but able to quickly link to aid in providing power to other cells in an emergency. The first is more possible today due to the use of DC high power lines that avoid having to synchronize AC flow over an entire country, but it does open the door to viral invasions that could cripple the entire country in a single attack. The second is more secure, creating "air gap" security limiting attack damage to a single region. There are workarounds that make a synchronized attack on many power grid stations very difficult, and would limit the down time to a few days.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
      "the use of DC high power lines" -- could you add to this comment,
      please? . are we really transferring power long distances
      with DC, like Edison tried to do? -- j
      .
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      • Posted by jimslag 9 years ago
        Check out the Pacific InterTie. It runs from The Dalles, Oregon to the constant power drain called Los Angeles. There is another one that feeds The City of Angels called the Intermountain that runs from a huge coal plant in Delta, Utah to LA. Those are the longest ones but there are a couple more small ones back east. One from Bruce Nuclear plant in Canada into Vermont. A couple run across South Dakota to Minnesota. Then there are several of what are called back-to-back converters that connect the 3 grids, with one connecting to Mexico from Texas. HVDC is promoted by a lot of European companies, like ABB, as a power solution.
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      • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
        I came close to having my property see more income from Grain Belt Express. Didn't pan out, they chose a different route.

        Yes, This is High Voltage Direct Current that uses the whole area of the transmission line not just the outside as in High Voltage AC. http://www.cleanlineenergy.com/
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        • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
          amazing! . I thought that Tesla won that battle a century-plus ago;;;
          Thank You for the link!!! -- j
          .
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          • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
            Believe me. I had to look twice too. I did know of the skin effect from being a HAM but had not realized that in the lower frequencies of 60 hz and such that it was still there. The effect is sufficiently workable to use smaller transmission lines with DC since the whole cross sectional area is conducting electrical energy.

            That be the kicker, electrical energy. Whether DC's slow "big river" of electrons moving slowly down the line, or AC's shaking electrons the energy is produced at the load end by movement of electrons whether thru shaking or a direct movement.

            Trick question posed is how long do electron take after leaving a car battery's post take to get back to the opposite post when starting the car's engine? About 4 hours. That's the BIG slow moving river effect that has a lot of power in that slow movement of many charges.
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            • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
              I wonder how we humans have found that it takes 4 hours
              to make the circuit. . do we measure electron speed in
              changing from one nucleus to another when zapped by
              a field? . I wonder....... -- j
              .
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              • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
                Roughly 6.241×1018 times the elementary charge) per second is an ampere. The electrons of a wire are moving in a random scattered "chaotic" manner. Introduce a potential difference on the two ends of the wire and though the chaotic manner still is going onkl there is still a slow totality of charge moving thru the wire from and to the generators of that potential difference from the source. The energy is transmitted at percentage of light speed velocities thru the wire or medium depending on the nature of that medium. The electrons themselves do not move at the speed of the energy. The electron that leaves the source that gives the potential to do work itself will take about 4 hours in such a DC circuit as a car.

                The notable difference between DC and AC is that with AC there is but a short movement in one direction for a sixtieth of a second and then a reversal for another sixtieth of a second. A well designed AC circuit which balances resistive and inducted loads sees no electron flow, only energy flow.

                Mind blowing electrical semantics on trial at this site: http://amasci.com/miscon/whatis.html
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                • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
                  yes; I am an engineer and a ham and have a clue here, but
                  the calculation must be something like a conversion between
                  electron-volts and horsepower-hours ... let's see ... the conversion
                  is 1 hp-hour = 1.675531e+25 eV, so all we have to have
                  is That Many electrons exiting the end of the wire to get
                  a hp-hour at one volt. . at 13.8 volts, it's 23.1196e+25
                  for a horsepower-hour. . I understand now;;; Thanks!!! -- j

                  p.s. . . . on reading the clean line energy site info some more,
                  this smells like switched square-wave energy transfer instead
                  of DC. . yet they are using thyristors to handle +/- 500kV at a
                  power of 3100 mW ... That's a Big Pair of Switches!!!
                  .
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                  • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
                    I wondered at those thyristors ability to bring back the DC to three phase AC, varying the frequency to start and run a 600 hp ventilation fan motor. I didn't have much to do with that installation but our electrical engineer and electrical specialist were shaking their heads at the critical timing involved and the shorting potential if the timing was amiss.

                    I hope that whoever is hacking sytems doesn't move beyond cutting fiber optics and get into the control stuff though I'm thinking that feature in the Toshiba VFD controllers are "hard" programmed to duty cycle sensors and with sufficient fail-safe to forestall foreign or any terrorist intent on large scale compromising of our energy grid.

                    I hope the sun CME (Coronal Mass Ejection) is cooperative as well, as if it can be persuaded, eh?
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                    • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
                      I just looked for toshiba variable freq drives, and found this:::

                      http://toshibavfd.com/shop/toshiba-vt...

                      do these things make 3-phase power from DC?
                      what exactly do they do??? -- j

                      p.s. and how in the world would a thyristor handling
                      such monster current keep cool???
                      .
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                      • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
                        At our place I was quite familiar for it being underground with a VFD shaker motor on a belt feeder with a load cell PID feedback controller. 600 volt 3 phase AC rectified to DC then chopped up and manipulated electronically back to 600 volt 3 phase AC. Why? Because then you could use feedback controls or manual controls to adjust the frequency of the Alternating Current. The motor chases the frequency. Same as does your hair dryer at home just that 60 hertz or cycles per second is what is being chased. Problem in starting big motors on heavy loads or changing motor speed are solved by varying the frequency. Had a 300 hp ventilation squirrel cage fan that started across the line. Power company bitched a lot about that and it was harder on equipment, especially geared stuff than what comes of a soft start type of control. Vary the frequency and the load can be eased in over a longer period of time with lower instantaneous breaker trip settings and lots of other advantages. Nuff?
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                        • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
                          WoW! . I didn't know that this was being done, but it sure makes
                          great sense. . we put dimmer switches all over this house
                          when we built it, for that and for friendly low-light reasons.
                          it seems that the majority of the light bulbs which we
                          are replacing, ten years out, are the ones which have
                          no dimmer.

                          where on earth do you have such high-power motors?
                          I worked at K-25, a manhattan project plant here in TN,
                          which had 3,000 horsepower motors turning huge
                          axial-flow compressors in the "diffusion cascade,"
                          but big motors are relatively rare, aren't they? -- j
                          .
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                          • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
                            Now that be a big 'un. The 500 horsepower long wall ventilation fan across the line start with no gearing swinging, oh shit, I'm saying around ten tons of squirrel cage fan took a good 20 seconds to come up to speed. I could hear that transformer and motor mounts doing some powerful vibrating what with all the torque. The coal company, Monterey and Exxon affiliate, was forced to use a different company to start the fan, and what with the crazy power factor charge, the engineers figured that a VFD would pay for itself. Not supposed to even be a shutdown of those fans but in storms and drunks running into poles in the countryside shutdowns were inevitable.

                            Tennesee? Axial flow compressors? Diffusion cascade? Lot of HP for a uranium purification system but then I'm just guessing at your meaning and use of "axial flow compressors." Interested though. I knew that Iran had about 19,000 centrifuges with only 9,000 running a year ago while Belgium had 300,000.
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                            • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
                              we had so much electric power consumption there that
                              TVA made a distribution hub out of the control room.
                              huge synchronous motors operating in a hydrogen
                              atmosphere to correct power factor, and contactors
                              which sounded like explosions when they closed.
                              it was 110 degrees near the ceiling in the 32 acre k33 building
                              where I hung out a lot. . it was like science fiction come to life. -- j
                              .
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago
            To all of the above. The most efficient and safest way of transporting energy is in the form of electricity but don't touch. The exception is power users needing diesel. Gasoline I could do without and I'd like to see LPG replaced with CNG again for safety reasons. It's the one weak link on my boat.
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            • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
              Astounding news today is that VW has confessed that a virtual(?) device was installed to give false NOx readings contrary to the regulations that allow the sale of those near half million vehicles, including diesel Audis. http://jalopnik.com/epa-orders-volksw...

              In the coal mine diesel emissions testing was done on all diesel machinery once a week. NOx in excess of (now I'm not gonna be exact since I've not done it in near ten years now) 3 ppm (parts per million) and the machine was down. I could work in a CO presence under 50 ppm. NOx was NO plus NO2 which is respectively Nitric Oxide (what Viagra is all about) and nitrogen dioxide. NO was molecule of the year, nominated for by SCIENCE magazine in 1992. Fascinating functionality in the human body. The body is exceedingly sensitive to it and uses NO for multiple purposes besides erections. http://www.chem.yorku.ca/hall_of_fame...
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              • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
                VW has confessed? . looked like the EPA has blamed
                them and they have yet to respond. -- j
                .
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                • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
                  I read they've confessed. The onboard computer, when indicating vehicle testing by the EPA or state emissions testing station, would kick in the emission controls but kick them out when driving normally. Here ye be: “In September, after EPA and CARB demanded an explanation for the identified emission problems, Volkswagen admitted that the cars contained defeat devices,” the agency said. http://www.autonews.com/article/20150...
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                  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
                    while those are words quoted from the EPA, it does seem
                    that VW did some very clever software design which will
                    have to be reversed. . might make the cars' performance
                    less attractive. . value drops. . ouch. -- j
                    .
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 1 month ago
    As for the fiber optic cables, I think the NSA is a bigger and more present danger.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago
      Cables are laid by drilling sideways or horizontally 20 to 50 feet down and usually following a city street or highway. In the country they often use big ditchers, lay the cable then cover them over. the main 'hole' is 10 to 12" wide. One fitting that replaces the directional drill head (allows it to shift it's path left right up down) is a harness for towing back the tubing that will eventually house the fibers. As I recall it was eight with seven packed around a center tube.Space withing the tube or on the fibers is leased or rented out by the owner SPRINT does a lot of that if not most along with cell and cable companies. The center tube however carries the goverrnment circuits. As one of the tech guys says your conversation or surfing habits are only 4" away. the number of fibers in each tube is thousands and each carries frequency controlled multiple conversations. they don't enlarge carryingcapacity by drilling more holes but with electronic boxes that can ...in layman's term, shove more in the same space (the width of the fiber.) so the original hole didn't have to be that big.

      Where they are vulnerable is crossing slung underneath high bridges the rest is deep underground.

      Anyway NSA and whom ever is no more than 4" away. What they have to capture and sort out the various means of communication is beyond my pay grade. I got off when code keys were still standard (little devices to allow you to tap out dots and dashes.) I just though code key has an entirely new meaning in only thirty years.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
        this is fascinating! . for me, corresponding with a guitar
        "pedal" company in New Zealand at the speed of light
        is just wild -- and from keyboard to monitor, not using
        a series of dots and dashes!!! -- j
        .
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    • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
      The NSA is not near as devastating to personal lives as social media shaming. I've made a few bucks off the NSA funding IARPA grants of which I got a pittance as part of a geo-political forecasting group. Said I was a superforecaster and have been invited back by the outfit getting the now exhausted funds. Wonder what the pay will be, if any this year since the outfit has gone private? RUBICON was a one year series about geo-political forecasting which AMC network replaced with the Walking Dead. I've never forgiven them and have watch
      ed ZERO episodes of Walking Dead.
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 1 month ago
    first i have read about this. how many muslims entering the usa are in fact trained to do the damage. when it happens it will not be isolated to california.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 1 month ago
    No comment... other than I work in cyber defense for federal hydro power...

    I was thinking Metcalf actually when I started reading the article, and it is indeed being treated as such. Our (federal) power substations have been significantly beefed-up in physical and cyber security since that incident. We now have cameras, motion and heat sensors, electrified fences, etc. The thousands of miles of inter-state grid generation we carry also has dark fiber underneath the right-of-ways that we lease to telecom carriers....

    Understanding that, I do actually have a 10,000 watt solar plant on top of my house, and I can isolate my house from the PG&E grid... and I can also use the generator in my travel trailer to supply my house with power by way of a separate connection I made with the power/water/sewer monument riser I built for it on the parking pad. 5 kw isn't a lot, but it keeps the lights on at night and the 26 foot high-clearance travel trailer and my Z71 Crew Cab is really the ultimate bug-out bag anyway. I did that more for wild fires, earthquakes, tsunami, and everything else we worry about in CA, and the fact that our pitiful grid infrastructure for residential is so bad that we get black outs after an inch or two of rain. I live in an area where wild fire is probably a medium-level risk and it's not out of the question to think we might have to pack up and move fast. We use the travel trailer a lot anyway, I can pretty much throw some bananas in it and turn the spigot on to fill the clear water tank quickly, and I'd be out of there in maybe a half-hour if I had to.

    The reality is though, we don't really see calamitous societal break-down from a power outage, and we have sensors every five hundred feet on the power grid and every kilometer or so on telecom backbones... we would know pretty much immediately where the problem is, and we actually do have a lot of stuff on-hand to do short-notice repairs. Of course you get some thugs looking to loot or whatever, but California has more gun-owners and registered firearms than any other state, including Texas, and several-times more than Arizona. It would be pretty dumb to do a Ferguson type thing here in a conservative neighborhood.

    Metcalf was a wakeup call though, it was actually someone with significant concealment, night vision targeting, IR scope, and a 50 caliber Barret rifle. For the time, that was pretty sophisticated... now anyone with a TrackingPoint rifle could easily duplicate that with novice firearm skills. http://tracking-point.com/
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 1 month ago
    I am skeptical about the power station report. I am not an expert on the power grid, but this seems a bit fantastical. For this to happen there would have to be power surges that damaged the other parts of the grid. Engineers have worked on these problems for years, see http://www.edisontechcenter.org/Light....

    This looks more like sensationalism looking for money than real engineering. It reminds me of a book about an EMP pulse written by a history teacher. The book went wild and was even touted here in the gulch, but the more I looked at the science, the more it was clear the teacher did not understand anything about the science of an EMP pulse. He also wrote a book about muslim terrorists with the same apocalyptic ending. It was not only full of implausible scenarios, it was poorly written. More of a fiction documentary than a novel.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago
      I use that same thing in my writings as Science Fiction. Two neat things about SF if you can't explain it don't but it's better if you have some grasp of the subject. Second real science has a way of outstripping SF and these days today's fantasy is tomorrows ho hum. But it did get me interested in the true sciences again and that is a big adventure.

      Back to real life my old unit used to conduct what are called 'target tours' going from installation to installation bridges, dams, generators, and more. We studied them structurally and looked for weak points to exploit . One of the rules was percent of damage and how could you damage something without really harming it to cause a delay in it's use. An example a bridge left standing but the approach and access ramps put out of action. That's the first step a demonstrated ability and demonstrated will to use the ability. The second step is double down by announcing or leaving information lying around about some follow up. 9/11 followed by anthrax followed by the suggested use of crop dusters worked rather well. Follow that by suggested use of mmmmm what's current? Use of immigrants especially from areas like Syria .....The original event has not been repeated but we're still reacting to it. Even to the point although it didn't stop the home grown variety from taking office. Yet. Follow up events are more psychological than mechanical. Both are effective. Economic warfare is perhaps the worst. The events of 2008 the genesis for that cycle.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
        and if you can figure out how anti-gravity works, the SF
        could go viral fast -- you'd be king of the planet!!! -- j
        .
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        • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
          Figure if we had a bit more than the "descriptive" formula of gravity itself that there'd be more hope for anti-grav stuff. That "theory of gravity" isn't really an explanation of falling but more of the rules of falling. Sure Uncle Al, brought some better accuracy to Mercury's observed orbit, but as to using the general relativity model in space probes, I suspect that only the Mercury probe, Messenger really needed it. Now that it's out of fuel and mashed the planet, what next for actual General Relativity need?

          Notable for me is how just a little more accuracy in predicting orbits took a radical change in thinking. What new thinking is in the works next with physics?
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          • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
            a good definition of phlogiston might help. -- j

            p.s. oops -- found this::: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictio...
            .
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            • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
              Hahahahaha. Off topic, but I'm trying to get a way to explain what life is. We don't test for life on Mars, but signs that it's been there. The definition is explored in a book I'm about two hours from finishing. Life on the Edge: The Coming of Age of Quantum Biology has taken me furthest in the activites of quantum tunneling most prevalent in what we call living organisms. Or rather it and other quantum effects is in the process of being used to explain, smell, photosynthesis, cell metabolism and such. I'm finding it difficult to find an analogy in human sized world to compare to, but electronic circuit resonance is pretty close. How a value of inductor and capacitor can conduct electrical energy if they are sized right and the DC circuit is switched on and off at a "resonant" frequency determine by the RLC equation.
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              • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
                as you know, resonant circuits are used in radio, but they
                are not alive. . yet they will sure animate you if you touch
                the top of a vacuum tube!

                life is a characteristic attributed to "things" which are
                self-contained and self-maintained collections of elements
                and compounds which are usually capable of reproduction.
                the funnest kinds of life are self-aware. . like you!!! -- j
                .
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                • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
                  Haha. Close to what daughter's bio book said, but about that drone ant or bee that is sterile, also like me after the vasectomy. Alive?
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                  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
                    lively, yes, but alive? . a creative bit of protoplasm with a
                    great sense of humor -- makes a sterile drone look like
                    a loooooooow life form. . we are just persons stuck in bodies
                    which are temporary . . . . kinda makes you think of a soul,
                    doesn't it? . . I can't remember anything before I was 3 years old.
                    wonder if I will still remember That, next year!!! -- j
                    .
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                    • Posted by minorwork 9 years, 1 month ago
                      Done a bit of investigation of intentionally inducing near death experience as possible and still come back. Intentionally too. Got as far as what is called Dhyana with but Samadhi and the areas where you don't come back and report yet to be had. Figure it is my meaning for living to explore what is living and can be had while alive. Seems a dead end to have wait until after dying. But a lot find comfort in putting off experiencing and exploring until after they die. Makes not a lick of sense to me but if it gives them cause to be self-reponsible, self-supporting, they pay their taxes, stay out of trouble and leave me alone more often than not, hell I can even tolerate relatives under those circumstances
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    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 1 month ago
      No, Metcalf is real. I was provided/read the specific incident reports at the time. I wasn't sure if it was declassified now. Other than being problematic to fill up at a gas station with anything other than cash, or trying to use a credit card, the rest of the impact can be pretty easily mitigated and wouldn't take more than a few hours to fix anyway. We have inter-organizational mutual aid agreements just like police & fire. For example, we (federal power grid) have a lot of stockpile of temporary wooden power poles because we use them during substation maintenance, and we have a lot of land for the maintenance crews to store them on that isn't as easy if you are a for-profit organization. Any time we have had storms and PGE, Roseville Electric, Norcal Power, etc.. needs them, we give their maintenance people temporary badges that get them through the gates/guns/guards and they come in with trucks and load-up and just reimburse us later when their procurement arrives. We're kind of a free bank for transformers, insulators, power poles, etc. The work itself is easy, having all the necessary parts in short notice can be difficult (an insulator or a transformer might be $500,000). We only self-sustain with our power generation & sale, so we can afford to keep surplus on hand for disaster recovery, and it's kind of our job anyway. We even sent our crews, trucks, high-reach buckets, etc. that work on the 100-foot high steel superstructures to New Jersey for Hurricane Sandy relief.
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