The Robots of Labor Day

Posted by DrEdwardHudgins 9 years, 2 months ago to Economics
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Many fear of robots taking our jobs. But I say on Labor Day celebrate that robots make labor more valuable & could usher in a new age of prosperity & flourishing!
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  • Posted by mccannon01 9 years, 2 months ago
    I say we shouldn't get too fearful of robots taking our jobs. There's no real way of knowing for sure where it will all end up. I've worked in manufacturing computer and process systems since 1972 and that included a wide variety of automation. Automation actually spurred growth and increased employment.

    Lets take an historical walk shall we? Did the steam engine end shipping? Did the tractor end farming? Did automated cow milking end dairy farming? Did the automobile end travel?

    What we should be fearing is those who would end automation in fear of losing their jobs. I like this hypothetical example: Suppose the US had gone entirely socialist after the Civil War. Imagine a young Thomas Edison having to approach the Ministry of Science and Invention with his light bulb idea only to have it crushed under the weight of the oil lamp and candlestick unions to save their jobs. If poor Thomas made a fuss he'd find himself on the hand pea shucking line in a poorly lit agricultural warehouse. Later he would be joined by Nikola Tesla and Henry Ford for attempting to disrupt other "employment opportunities".
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    • Posted by blackswan 9 years, 2 months ago
      My personal experience with automation may shed some light on why it shouldn't be stopped or even slowed down. I once worked as a bank auditor, where we used spreadsheets, literal huge sheets of paper with rows and columns. We could only use pencils when we worked with them, because if an error was made, we'd have to erase whole sections of the sheet and re-calculate all the numbers in the affected columns and rows. You can imagine how we felt when Visicalc came out (followed by Lotus 123 and Excel). Rather than needing a calculator and a huge block eraser whenever a mistake was found, all we had to do was correct the offending error, and everything in the affected columns and rows automatically re-calculated. Productivity skyrocketed, even though the manufacturers of block erasers were adversely affected. Another example comes from when I was in engineering school. At the time, we had to use slide rules (there were NO calculators). When we wanted to draw a curve or surface, we needed to do first and second derivatives of the functions in order to determine what the curve or surface looked like. Today, you can type in the function, and the calculator automatically draws the curve or surface. Notice that both innovations were potent productivity tools. Whenever I get the urge, I may do things the old fashioned way (not too often), but when I'm working, I use the latest technology available. There are NO guarantees in life, except the opportunity to change with the times. Bring on the robots.
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      • Posted by mccannon01 9 years, 2 months ago
        A fine story, blackswan! Funny, I was looking at a rather fancy slide rule the other day locked in a case in an antique store and smiled at it thinking I used to use one of those, myself. I have a few lying around someplace at home and, having a woodworking hobby, I thought it may be amusing to place one in a wood case with a glass front etched with the words "In case of power failure, break glass." and hang it in my man-cave computer room. I never got around to doing that, but your post made me think of it again. I'm sure we could sit on my front porch with a cold one and trade some great stories of tech days gone by.

        OK, I'll share one since you mentioned spread sheets. In the fall of 1973 I was working for a large corporation in a tiny, but brand new, research department experimenting with our custom built microprocessor system to perform some rather simple process monitoring tasks on injection molding machines. It was based on the fairly new Motorola 6800 chip set and we designed our own boards and wrote all our own code in assembly language. Anyway, I was young at the time and was with the company for a little more than a year and was quite enamored by this innovative little computer (I was also a Star Trek fan and excitedly thought "Here we go and I'm part of it!"). I got an idea I took to our management and suggested we modify the process monitor board into a table top computer and write programs so the accountants can have their own machines to track inventory and other data and secretaries can type letters and forms on a CRT (that's Cathode Ray Tube to you young folks, which now days is called a monitor) and won't need to fool with white-out when they make a mistake. Yes, I described a computer based spread sheet and word processor before they were officially invented. Managements reply was: "Nobody is going to spend that much money on a glorified calculator and the company isn't going to spend what it would take to make one". Yeah, at the time a Motorola 6800 chip set cost over $200 so I felt I understood what they were saying. Also, inexpensive mass storage for such an endeavor would have been a tough problem to overcome at the time. Apple was born in a garage a few years later when the chip set price was about $25, Radio Shack's TRS80 a few years after that when the floppy disk prices came down and the IBM PC came out around 1981. History indicates I had a great idea, but the cost of that tech in '73 wouldn't let it happen at that time.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 2 months ago
    I worked in factory automation for 15 years, three of those directly in robotics. I read Atlas Shrugged when I was 16. So, I am all-aboard for machines doing the work. That said, I also note that the people who benefit from automation are not necessarily the same people who are disadvantaged and diminished by it.

    In Middletown by Robert S. and Helen Merrell Lynd, about Muncie, Indiana, and the Ball glass factory, the old craftsmen glassblowers were put out of work. The young men coming in had little interest in glass, per se, but wanted to learn how to operate the machines because knowing that made them more employable in other factories. That was 1929. Fast forward. In a class in Sociology of the Worldplace in 2007, we read about a neighborhood building that had had several businesses in it, and employed more than a few people from the neighborhood. One man said that he made shoes and now was baking bread, but he knew nothing about shoes or bread. He knew the Windows interface. And I agree that that was great for him. I get that.

    However, the bakers and cobblers, like the glassblowers, were nonetheless unemployed.

    You can say that they should have learned the new technologies. In that I perceive a collectivist fallacy that all people are "equal" because we are interchangeable. I learned Windows. Therefore, you can, too. More deeply, I wanted to, therefore you should want to, also.

    I am not advocating that we keep obsolete technologies just so that some people can work at inefficient tasks. I only mix the metaphoric identification that The Invisible Hand is not a Rising Tide.
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    • Posted by JuliBMe 9 years, 2 months ago
      I'm struck by the compassion for others you display in your message. However, when compassion becomes enabling of others to NOT change and adapt, that's where I find a problem. The glass blowers, if that's all they know or want to do, could become artists in the field and turn their art into an industry of their own. There's no need for them to feel sorry for themselves because of the effects of creative destruction. There IS a need, however, for them to do what is necessary to ensure they live a life of productivity, and therefore, happiness. For how are people happy when all they do is complain about circumstances that, quite regularly change their lives?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      I would add to the comments below that the need for individuals to change what they do when technological and economic circumstances change also highlights the importance of individuals understanding that they are the entrepreneurs of their own lives, not just of some particular enterprise. Change will come quicker in the future for many so this understanding is especially important now and especially for young people.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 2 months ago
        Yes, we understand that now. The Luddites were much like the capitalists and entrepreneurs of their time who thought that government subsidies, tariffs, etc., were good for them. We know better. Early on in The Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith quipped that seldom does any group of tradesmen gather for dinner without concocting a scheme to restrict commerce to their favor. They still do, but we have better arguments now, and a long history of empirical evidence to counter that. They still get away with it, of course. So, the struggle continues.

        It is only now in our time, say from Gen-X , that people have been raised in an economic environment where they understand that you cannot have one job for life. We went through that in the 90s. Just as all that Deming quality stuff was blooming, so was down-sizing. The unemployed became entrepreneurs, one way or another.

        Myself, I have always been independent, working as a contractor. (Kawasaki above was one or two full time direct employments. The other was 20 years earlier. Both lasted exactly 1 year and 50 weeks.) I also have more than one trade. And I take on new challenges easily and leave old markets behind. But all of that was from having read Atlas Shrugged and the rest as a teenager. In fact, it was a statement from Howard Roark in the The Fountainhead that with, say, only 60 productive years ahead, why would he want to do any other work but what he enjoyed?
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    • Posted by blackswan 9 years, 2 months ago
      There are many who've been displaced from various industries because of innovation. Those who choose to stay in their fields must change the way they do things; rather than working a steady job, the successful ones turn to becoming artisans and entrepreneurs, not attempting to outproduce the automated factories, but making one of a kind artistic pieces that carry a premium price. The unsuccessful ones cry in their beer. The world we're entering is one that demands more and more entrepreneurship, not less.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
    Robots can make some labor more valuable. BUT. Robots have advanced now to just replace human labor more and more, especially the labor if "entitled" workers. The higher the minimum wage, the fewer workers there will be and the more ribots
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      It is ironic that those who push for higher minimum wages will be a major force helping to replace humans with robots unless, as is pointed out below, governments place enough regulations on the use of robots to make them uneconomical, thus forcing marginal businesses and franchises to shut down. But the goal of so many leftists is to make themselves feel good while ignoring the actual impact of their policies.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 2 months ago
      I'm just glad robots have advanced enough that some businesses can now use them, rather than simply close, when faced with these idiotic laws. But I still expect more businesses to close than robotize. (Which I suspect is the real goal. The Left hates the fact that people still have the option of eating fast food.)

      As for the people displaced, welfare will take care of some until the system collapses, but I really hope as many as possible will find black market work instead.
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      • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
        Directive 10-289-2015 will probably impose a tax on robots bi enough to destroy their cost advantage over the $15/hr min wage. I can tell you that we are preparing for the $15 min wage in our small mfg business by:

        1) automating and reducing employee count, or
        2) having more things made in China and reducing employee count, or
        3) closing
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 2 months ago
    The Da Vinci robot for surgery here:
    http://www.intuitivesurgical.com/

    So-called "robot surgery" is over 30 years old. In 1991-1993, teaching programming to Ford Motor Company electricians for Kawasaki Robotics, I showed a promotional video that included a PUMA robot positioning an instrument for brain surgery. That was a true robot. The Da Vinci seems not to be, but, rather, is only a complex manipulator, a "waldo". A real robot runs a program, and like all computers, they can alter their operation based on inputs and decisions. At the last robot trade show I attended back in 1995, KRI had two of their new robots connected to a vision system solving a Rubik's Cube.
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 9 years, 2 months ago
    Somebody will have to 'feed' the robots. They will need programming and maintenance. And as shown in the video you link to, the robots are saving a lot of walking around by people, but they still are only delivering what they are programmed to deliver to a person they are programmed to deliver it to.

    Perhaps robots will enable us to work 20 or 30 hours per week vs. the supposed standard (today) 40 hour week that exists now. That 40 hour week is the result of industrialization, which is a form of robotization (if that is a word).

    My father had a really good job in the 1940's working for the railroad. He worked 10 hours per day, 7 days per week and was paid $1 per hour. In 1945 $70 per week was really good pay. When the railroads began to use diesel-electric engines and replaced the coal-fired steam engines, men like him were able to work shorter hours, fewer days, and at higher pay. By the 1950's railroad men had what is now considered normal 40-hour work weeks.

    Robots are really just another form of industrialization and I have to think that will be good for us.

    Thank you Dr. Hudgins for bringing up this issue.
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    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 2 months ago
      Well, actually, Tom, railroad men like your father benefited from "featherbedding" by the unions. Keeping firemen on diesel engines is a perfect example. That was why your father worked fewer hours for more pay. He helped to kill the railroads.

      As for whether someone will always have to 'feed' (maintain, program, etc.), the robots, back in 1964 when I was in ninth grade, a tool and die guy spoke to my class. "Someone has to make the machines," he said. T&D will never be put out of work by automation. He was right... for 20 or 30 years... CAD/CAM systems helped put tool and die people out work. Today we have 3D printing. It is great stuff. Bring it on. But just be cognizant of the fact that the people who benefit from it are not the same ones who are disadvantaged by it. And, yes, no one complained about the loss of T&D jobs, but only because no one noticed, except them.
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      • Posted by $ TomB666 9 years, 2 months ago
        I have to take exception to your comment that my father was responsible for railroad's failures. That is squarely upon the shoulders of the mis-managers who ran the railroads.

        Well managed businesses do not fail! Companies fail because the people in charge lose focus. They try to live in a past that has moved on and competitors who move with the changes eat them alive.

        And that is where lobbyists come in - their job is to convince politicians to lock things where they are so CEOs can stop thinking/working and enjoy the millions they are being paid. RR executives watched truckers take ever larger portions of their businesses and all they did was whine about it being unfair that trucks got to drive on roads someone else paid for while RRs had to maintain their own tracks.

        As to individual jobs, we all have to be prepared to continue learning - the world is such that you can't simply freeze everything so that nothing changes (Anthem), it just will not work that way. From what little I know about T&D makers, I think they are skilled craftsmen. If that is right, then they are capable of learning a new skill if that is what is required. We can not reasonably think that we have reached a point where the world will hold steady so that we can stop being aware of what is happening around us.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      Glad you liked the piece! I do argue that the exponential growth in technology will mean change coming over years rather than decades or centuries. This means friends of freedom and reason will need to apply principles to new situations and make the case for freedom anew.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 2 months ago
    I discussed this situation with another Randist (one who is not in the Gulch), who commented that Ayn Rand said that everyone should live a 'productive' life, not that they must 'have a job'. I found this an interesting touchstone to apply to the image of a post-affluence world.

    Given that everyone has an affluent lifestyle, provided by a robotic workforce, only a small number (5%? 10%?) of the population would need to work. These people would work in innovation, thinking up qualitative changes to our environment (which changes would then be implemented by robots). But the rest of the population can still be productive in art, entertainment, and sports.

    I predict that most of the population that can be productive will not choose to do so, however. We will probably end up with another 20% or so who are productive but not employed...and the rest of the people will be an audience for life and not participants therein.

    Jan
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 2 months ago
      I don't think "jobs" such as raising children and caring for elderly relatives will ever become more than semi-automated. For other types of work, increasing automation implies that the lifestyle of current retirees may gradually spread to the general population.
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      • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
        I'm not sure about raising children but caring for the elderly is an area that robotics presents significant hope. Self driving cars will remove the point at which one can no longer safely drive, robotic tools to monitor you will allow people to stay at home longer -- and nursing room care is incredibly expensive.

        Japan is actively developing and marketing robotic aids for seniors. With the aging of the baby boomers we have to find a way to take care of a lot of people.
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 2 months ago
          Robots will likely take over most of the physical needs of the elderly (and possibly children), but not their emotional and other psychological ones.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 2 months ago
            Very true. There was an interesting study done (I'm trying to find the link) of newborn infants. I want to say that it was over some months. Some were cuddled and fussed over by the nursing staffs while others just had their basic physiological needs attended to (diapers, feeding, etc.). The incidents of SIDS among the babies who received little or no personal attention was staggering.

            There have also been other psychological studies which link the amount of time an infant spends with their mother up to age two has a dramatic effect on their behaviors for the remainders of their lives.

            I think we as humans will cease to be humans when we stop caring about our offspring to the point that we attempt to outsource those responsibilities.
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          • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
            I'm not sure. I'm more inclined to agree with you on children than on the elderly. People do seem to be able to build attachments to artificial constructs. The early work with ELIZA, the relatively simplistic program that simulated a psychologist showed that people shared some sort of connection readily.

            Dr.Wizenbaum wrote it in the 60's as a bit of a parody of artificial intelligence. He isn't a big proponent of machine intelligence. He was shocked at how quickly people 'connected' with it. His secretary asked him to leave the room when she was communicating with the program because it was 'private'.

            One of my employees worked on a late night airline reservation phone bank when he was in college and there were a number of elderly people who would call in the middle of the night and talk to them because they couldn't sleep. If the call volume was low, the phone bank people would talk to them for a while before gently telling them that they had to get back to work.

            So, would an anthropomorphic computer program substitute? I don't know.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
    In the past, Robots have taken over specialized functions, such as the classic weaving example. People could then go get other jobs that weren't as easy to automate.

    However the point comes when the robots are so capable that they can do any job that a human can do, or a majority of humans. At that point there is no job that it is cost effective to pay those people to do.

    We will see that point reached in the relatively near future and have to rethink our economic systems to deal with a world of plenty.

    I don't like some of the consequences, particularly looking at the possibility that the majority of people will not have jobs but must still live. But reality exists.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      You’re making the same mistake Marx and others made. He assumed that industrialization would make more and more workers unnecessary thus creating mass unemployment. But if everything is made by either industrial machines or robots, who will buy all the goods and services produced by machines or robots? As I said, advances in productivity allow workers to trade their labor for more and more goods and services. The same will be the case as robots introduce new efficiencies.

      Two hundred years ago my father would not be able to trade his labor driving a truck (horse-drawn wagon back then) and selling bread for a house, TV, AC, lots of food and money to raise six kids because his labor was not worth it. Only advances in productivity allowed that.

      There is always some work for humans. What about terraforming the planet Mars to make it a habitat for humanity? Yes, robots will be used to design the optimal way to introduce greenhouse gases, seed the planet with organisms to convert CO2 into oxygen, genetically engineer those organisms, etc. and to actually carry out the process. But humans will instruct the robots what they want, feed in cost and value tradeoffs that humans desire, etc. Or, as I recently suggested in a Mars Society speech, we could engineer the environment of Mars to make it suitable for human biology. Or we could engineer human biology to make it suitable for the environment of Mars!

      On this last point, as advances in genetic engineering and nanotech extends human longevity and enhances our capacities. 500 will be the new 70 and there will be plenty of time for really long-term projects, with individual humans taking centuries rather than decades perspectives. They will develop goals undreamt of. Robots will assist but humans will conceive and plan.

      In any case, humans are the objects of all value and will always have something to do, even with robots.
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      • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
        The question you have to ask yourself is: "What can humans do that robots can't" because with mass production the 'labor' of robots will increasingly be less expensive than that of humans.

        Up to now the thing that humans could be is more flexible. Robots could handle specific repetitive tasks but many tasks require too much flexibility. And these aren't even sophisticated tasks, for example cleaning a hotel room and making the bed requires a lot of skills that are really hard to automate. But we will automate them.

        Most of the task of terraforming Mars necessarily falls to robotic work. In fact, I personally think that humans should focus on building a habitat on the Moon and let the robots build Mars -- at least until they've built the fuel plant, have agriculture working and have built a Hilton. We may need some humans to direct this activity but it will be dozens, not hundreds or thousands. And there will soon be 9 billion of us on the planet.

        I do see mass unemployment and keep coming back to the conclusion that the "world of plenty" will involve a middle class "guaranteed annual income" that will allow the bulk of the people to live comfortable lives and buy all the stuff that the 1% that actually makes it all happens create.

        As I say, I don't like this idea philosophically, but logic keeps bringing me back to it.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
          I actually plan to write something on the guaranteed income idea in the future, opposing it as an error on several counts. To come!
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          • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
            I await your analysis. As I said, I don't find it philosophically attractive, but if automation can produce enough goods for every one of the 9 billion people on the planet to have a good standard of living with little human effort, I'm not sure how it works out.

            One of the books that I think of in this respect is Asimov's "The Naked Sun" which had the planet of Solaris having 10,000 robots per person. Of course it had an astonishingly low population. Interestingly the predecessor "The Caves of Steel" was dystopic with an overpopulated planet with high crowding a rigid social structure. The population of 8 billion is just over that of today's. We're doing a lot better than he thought we would.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 2 months ago
        Again, Ed, we can look back - and do so from the twin peaks of Austrian economics and Objectivist ethics. While the Luddites are still with us, the fact is that even the most popular of them all, J.R.R. Tolkien, allowed his hobbits to have watermills. No one complained that watermills put threshers out of work.

        In The Economy of Cities Jane Jacobs contrasted Manchester with Birmingham. To Marx and Engels, Manchester was the epitome of capitalism. The only problem was that it was a one-trick pony: all they did was weave. On the other hand, Birmingham was under-appreciated for its centuries-long tradition of manufacturing diversity. That was why Selgin could sing the praises of the Birmingham button makers who gave us modern coinage.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
          And from looking back, that's why I'm surprised at those who make the same sort of predictions about automation today that Marx was wrong about in the 1800a. I would acknowledge though that exponential change in robotics, biotech, nanotech, and genetics will mean change will take place over years or decades rather than centuries, This will pose unique challenges to freedom that way the Industrial Revolution did. Thus my attempts to get friends of freedom and reason to get involved with the communities of entrepreneurs pioneering these technologies.
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      • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
        Perhaps we could look at the amount of human labor it takes to support my own life. I say that number is going to decrease in favor of robots That means humans would have to price themselves higher and higher. Bottom line is that I would have less work to do also making my income needs lower while keeping my living standard the same.
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        • Posted by blackswan 9 years, 2 months ago
          If you look at the economic history of of the US, you'll notice that the Robber Barons were operating in a DEFLATIONARY economic environment of their own making. When Carnegie began making steel, it was around $120/ton; by the time he retired, it was around $15/ton. The same went with all of the products that they sold. That's the only way they could get away with cutting workers' wages during economic downturns; deflation was continually making things cheaper. Even today, just look at the cost of computers. When I bought my first one, it cost $3,500. Today, I can buy one a million times more powerful for less than $300. Stop worrying about short term disruptions, and focus on the long term opportunities. That's where the sweet spot is.
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          • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
            I'm not worried at all about robots and automation. I am concerned however that government will get involved and interfere with the marketplace reorganizationd
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 9 years, 2 months ago
    There is no such thing as "our jobs" in the property sense. There is what we are doing today to value to others, valued in money to ourselves. That is it. What is economically viable for us to do is utterly dependent on the context. As the context changes we seek utter ways to gainfully add value. As technology advances more quite new and even today difficult to imagine things become possible and more currently viable activities in the marketplace become less so or are performed quite differently. This is Reality.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 2 months ago
    There are jobs that make you stupid!, repetitive and downright boring...those are the jobs for robots.
    Just think, someday when they become aware and begin to think on their own...we'll be accused of slavery and they will want social justice...sound kinda like full circle? one more time around.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 2 months ago
    The role of electronic innovation is to eliminate labor by humans. What will humanity do when the robot singularity occurs? We all become artists, musicians and fiction writers? Think about it.
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    • Posted by $ sjatkins 9 years, 2 months ago
      We will use our brains extended and augmented by the technology to answer the question of what we will do. The age of the Factory Worker as a good middle class employment basis is disappearing fast just as the age of the street sweeper and horse drawn carriage maker disappeared. The world changes and moves on.

      In reality their is no guarantee that you or I find a viable niche. We simply use our gifts to maximal effect we can. It never turns out well to attempt to legislate reality into something else.

      Personally, if I have both my needs met and time on my hands I can think of countless interesting and exciting and some valued by others things to do. I certainly shan't be bored. And note that a highly automated society is a far richer society where, modulo the tremendous cancer of government coercion and predation today, it is increasingly trivial to met all the needs and many of the desires of everyone regardless of whether they have a "job" and without coercion.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 2 months ago
    This subject is well covered and discussed in detail by Sowell's "Basic Economics" book. I have the 4th edition in English and Spanish, but he just came out with a 5th edition. The 4th was so good, I don't know how he can improve upon it. But I digress, simply read his book and the answer is clear.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
    the easy approach to understanding this segment of development is found in Hazlitt's book Economics In One Lesson. The section that deals with the hand weavers versus the hand loom weavers versus the powered loom weavers etc. Hudgins comment is exactly correct else we would still be paying welfare money to out of work stone axe chippers.

    the real problem comes when the dinosaurs such as the United Auto Workers can add to the price of vehicles for the cost of employees who have no useful function besides breathing good air and there is Nancy Pellosillyni around to use them to further ruin the economy.

    But the whole concept is not rocket science as is most of economics. Absent the window dressing to justify the tuition.
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    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 2 months ago
      All at once, and overnight, that situation you describe ceased to exist. "dinosaurs such as the United Auto Workers can add to the price of vehicles for the cost of employees who have no useful function besides breathing good air ..." As I recall, it was 1995 when I was in a GM plant with no old people. The skilled trades - electricians, pipefitters, riggers - were gone, all replaced by a single job title: technician.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
        Would you comment on the reported ten to twenty thousand being paid for sitting at home? Or answer the question Where's our cars? The one the taxpayers bought during the too big to fail vote buying bail out. GMC deserved to die as a poorly run business. There existed not one corporate or investment operation in the world willing to take over. Except the suckers called tax payers. No one and no business is too big too fail including the government run businesses like the government itself and General Motors. 'State Capitalism' at it's worst which translated means fettered capitalism a form of socialism. I've been in unions. They serve themselves and incidentally their members. They do not serve more than a minority percentage of the working class. But they suck up all the free money and give some back via their PACs with no problem. Davis-Bacon ring a bell with it's bloated conception of local prevailing wage? Unions keep just enough on hand to handle the gravy. The rest get to fend for themselves. Their elections are rigged. They lost their way when they joined the triumverate of the left as their kick stand.
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        • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 2 months ago
          Nice tirade, Michael, and hard to argue, just as I could go on and on about Jim Sinegal and Eric Schmidt and make broad claim about "all capitalists" or "all CEOs." I will not attempt to defend all of the labor unions in the world any more than I would claim that the Atlas Shrugged movies were the epitome of cinema.

          After GM moved its IT department here to Austin, I heard their VP for IT speak to a technology breakfast. He boasted that GM had 14 consecutive profitable quarters for the first time in its history. I was underwhelmed. In 100 years, they never had 3-1/2 good years in a row, even when what was good for General Motors was good for America. GM was founded as the largest capitalization in history at that time. They had some virtues, and virtuous people, but GM, largely (ha, "largely") was always a brontosaurus. Now, Ford, being still controlled by the Ford family was more successful for obvious reasons.

          Mostly, it is a matter of culture. The farther you are from Detroit, the more an automotive factory looks like a real workplace. I was in a Ford factory in Detroit where the supervisors really looked like the Production Police. They had blue uniforms with blue ties and radios clipped to their collars. And they walked around just looking for trouble. At Kentucky Truck in Louisville, it was more like the Toyota plant in Lexington. At Twin Cities Assembly, I met a young mechanical engineer and his buddy. Both were union apprentices, and together they had full charge for a little process line, and as long as it worked, no cared how they did it. I never saw supervisor. In fact, at Kentucky Truck, if I wanted a foreman, I had to go find one or call for one on the radio. Culture matters.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
            My experience was with mariner unions and labor unions and a few others in between. Now here's the true confession part. Having gained two degrees in History and Political Science with a couple of minor minors my retired school teacher parents asked me why I didn't work in my degree fields. Bad as the unions were the correct answer came from my sister. He can't afford to take the pay cut.

            the best setup I ever saw was an in house union where every employee was in from CEO on down but no newbies nor any one in management or supervision could be an employees association officer. From day one we referred to the product as 'my' product that 'I' made. Every pay day we got to buy into the company if we wished to do so. I think they got bought out but I kept my address current because of the stocks. A few splits and a few decades later it was worth the trouble.

            The others I just went mercenary. Did the job right and walked away with no further thought until the next shift.

            That was while I was not in the military of course. There we were coerced into buying savings bonds on what would have been a RICO' violation anywhere else in most of their units the exception was my home regiment. We just ignored the rest of the pentagon as much as possible.
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  • Posted by Danno 9 years, 2 months ago
    I was responsible for much automation at a company and it grew and grew. Yes some jobs were obsoleted but many others were created especially in IT and Sales.
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
      I think those days are not to be repeated as robots become smarter and smarter. Rote jobs are replaced en masse but new jobs are created one at a time
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 2 months ago
    Ed, I agree with the article but reading it was very hard on my eyes because of the light gray type against a white background. Also, I didn't see any option that allowed readers to comment on the article (aside from making comments here).
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      I have zero control over our website and had nothing to do with its design, So please refer your comments to David Kelley dkelley@atlassociety.org and Aaron Day ard@atlassociety.org or ardventures@gmail.com. I;m sure they'd love to hear from you. Of course, tell them you liked my piece if not the website! Thanks!
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  • Posted by Eudaimonia 9 years, 2 months ago
    Dr. Hudgins,

    Directly addressing your point about textiles, clothing manufacturing, and entrepreneurship: industrialization can actually raise the value of quality-made cottage industry goods. People will pay a premium for "artisan" goods. Look at the price of hand-stitched originals in a couture shop, and then look at the price of one item from a mass produced line based on one of those originals.

    The point being that, if the cottage industry laborer produces a quality item, there is no need for them to fear industrialization. Industrialization will actually distinguish their item as higher quality which, with effort, can translate into higher value.

    This, of course, is where the quality of entrepreneurship must kick in.

    As a personal anecdote, for a few years now, I've had a hobby of making scratch, handmade sourdough bread. You, or I, or anyone else can go into any grocery store and find very good quality mass produced bread. Regardless, I can always find buyers for my bread, at a premium, when I get in the mood to make some.

    My family fights over it. Orders have come in for it out of the blue. I even had one guy trade me a generous pour of Pappy Van Winkle for it.

    If industrialization were such a threat, why would any of these people go through such bother when there is so much mass produced, inexpensive bread readily available?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      Points well taken. It really is an issue of market demand. Some folks will pay a lot more for what they see as higher quality items in boutiques while others of more modest incomes or fugal habits are happy with Target or Walmart. I make a banana-coconut bread that surpasses anything you'll get at the store, though I don't think it's worth my time to make it an market it. But my family members do all get a tasty treat at Christmas time!
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
      And my wife weaves. Yes, you can get more for hand made goods than machine ones. But very few people can buy hand made goods and it's exceedingly hard for it to be more than a hobby because the amount that people will buy is relatively small.

      And even that is only possible because very few people are actually trying to do it. Had all the weavers who were put out of work by the automated loom sold hand-made goods as an alternative, the vast majority would have starved to death.
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