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Kansas GOP proposes new Jim Crow bill

Posted by Maphesdus 10 years, 10 months ago to Legislation
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Interesting how the oppressors are trying couch themselves in the language of their victims.

"If you don't let us persecute you, then you're persecuting us!"

The KKK tried to use religion to justify their actions as well. It didn't work for them, either.
SOURCE URL: http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/02/14/what-the-hell-just-happened-in-kansas/


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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 10 months ago
    Well, alright Kansas. From the article, the best thing said is >>" And to my mind, a better approach for gay couples and their families is not to try and coerce fundamentalist individuals and businesses into catering to them,"<< This entire concept of forced anti-discrimination through government laws and regulation is seriously dividing this country. Groups forcing society to confront and deal with their particular differences and victimness is the antithesis of a free society and respect for individual rights. There is no or at least a severely reduced value to a service or recognition that is forced from another - why seek it. Equality before the law is the only necessity for a free society. This other nonsense has just gone too far.

    Until I wear a sign that says "I'm a heterosexual that prefers the missionary position" when I'm in public, I really don't want to know what your particular sexual thing is. Tell me or force it into my face and i'm likely to respond to that instead of to how you act as a human.
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      Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      And tell me, what does "acting as a human" mean?
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 10 months ago
        Didn't say anything about acting 'as' a human. I said 'how' you act as a human.

        That's a big difference. You're searching for controversy by attempting to restate something, as you often do. I think what I stated was fairly straight forward.

        If you desire that I, as an individual or business, deal with you as you act as a person or human, then don't give me information I don't need, care about, or want to know, and then attempt to force or coerce me into interacting with you on that basis.

        Leave the particulars and idiosyncrasies of your life in the proper perspective based on the interaction you're seeking.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
    You can legislate against behavior but you can't change it that way. It just festers
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago
      While I think the proposed legislation is stupid, I do believe that it should be the right of any business to serve or not whomever they choose.
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      • -1
        Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
        Sorry, but I gotta disagree with you there. A business may choose its products and its price, but not its customers.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago
          Based on what principle?
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          • -1
            Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
            The principle that persecution of minorities is evil and society needs laws to protect against such things.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago
              And how do you jump immediately to "minorities"? I did not say that. I said that a business should be allowed to decide on whomever they want to conduct business with based on whatever their criteria are.
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              • -1
                Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                Why? I see no reason to permit a business any control whatsoever over who can purchase their products or receive their services. I believe in private ownership and control over the means of production, but not any control over customers. You're selling a product or service to the general public? That's great! But you have to sell it to everybody who wants it and can afford to pay for it. A business owner cannot choose his customers.
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            • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 10 months ago
              Please explain how my pastor refusing to marry two homosexuals is persecution? I firmly believe that any force that is brought against our church because we will stand against such an abomination is a violation of OUR civil rights. We will not be forced to act differently. If they want married there are ministers who will corrupt their religion and do the act, seek them out.

              Choosing where to buy a loaf of bread is no different.

              A persons race, skin color sex (the real two), religion are the only determining items to establish persecution. You on the gay side want to persecute against us for our religious conviction against homosexuality and deviance and want us serve your needs. That tells us that our moral stand is subservient to your perversion - you are wrong. We have just as much right to not serve you as you have a right to not be forced to listen to us present the gospel to you.
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              • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                Your pastor can do whatever he wants in that regard. Religious leaders need not be forced to preform rituals or ceremonies that they don't believe in or agree with, as that would be a violation of religious freedom. My stance about anti-discrimination legislation is strictly in regards to secular activities such as business, housing, and medical care. In your church you can practice whatever beliefs you want. But when you start providing a secular service to the general public, there are certain standards which apply.
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                • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago
                  So, based on your rationale, a female only gym should be illegal, a males only sauna should be illegal, a private golf club should be illegal (discriminates against those without the funds to join)?
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                  • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                    Private clubs for wealthy people are fine because economic status is not an immutable characteristic controlled by genetics, which is the only thing that anti-discrimination legislation is concerned with. Now if the club only allowed white millionaires to join, and forbade black millionaires from joining, then we'd have a problem...

                    Gyms are one business where I can concede that discrimination based on sex actually has a legitimate purpose. Sometimes women just want a place to exercise in peace without having to worry about men hitting on them all the time.
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            • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
              for goodness sakes, this isn't even an issue on a broad scale and you know it maph
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              • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                Actually no, it is a big issue. Perhaps you're simply not aware of it all because it's not something you're involved with, but it really is a big problem for a lot of people.
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                • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 10 months ago
                  Hell I'm a minority, I'm an old, bald, fat, white-man with average endowment, but younger women don't want to date me.

                  Let's pass a law and stop this discriminating behavior. It's just not fair.
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                  • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                    Anti-discrimination legislation applies to only three categories: business, housing, and health care. Your private dating life does not fall under any of those three categories.
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                    • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 10 months ago
                      Well, it ought to.

                      By the way, anti-dicrimination enshrined in hate-speech and hate-crime apply throughout the nation including race, gender, domestic violence, gender identification, and age just to name a few.

                      So beating someone up is battery, unless you're doing it because you don't like something about those classes. It strikes me that beating someone up that you like or don't care about one way or the other is just as bad or at least no worse.
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                      • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 10 months ago
                        Your problem is you're after the opposite sex as partners. If you want to have these "magic sex rights" (or is it rites?) you have to chase the SAME sex partners.

                        Really is pretty one sided isn't it. If a businessman is approached by a straight guy who the businessman is offended by for some personal reason and he refuses to sell him a widjet, nobody thinks twice about it. Then a gay guy walks in and the owner refuses to sell a widjet to him because he was offended by the gay guy making a pass at him (yuck), now he's going to be sued for some made up discrimination garbage. It's really all about these people deciding that we ARE going to accept their lifestyle or they are going to destroy our lives - which is what happens to people in these suits.

                        So who's the bad guy here? I'm pretty sure it's not who malph thinks it is.
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                        • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                          Why do people call me malph? I understand that it's supposed to be an abbreviation, but there's no L in my name...

                          Anyway, to refute your point, all anti-discrimination legislation applies equally to everyone. For example, the language used in the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), which recently passed in Senate and is awaiting a vote in the House uses the terms "sexual orientation" and "gender identity," meaning that it forbids discrimination against straight and cisgender people just as much as it forbids discrimination against gay and transgender people. So no, refusing service to a straight guy for no other reason than because he's straight would not be allowed. Equal protection means equal protection.

                          If a particular individual is harassing other customers or engaging in disruptive behavior, then of course the business owner can have that person removed from the premises. Anti-discrimination legislation only forbids a business owner from refusing service because someone happens to belong to a certain group.
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                      • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                        Oh right, I forgot about hate-crime legislation. I guess that makes four categories, then.

                        Also education, so five (though private education could technically fall under the category of business).
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    • -1
      Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      All law and legislation deals with regulating human behavior in one way or another. To suggest that behavior cannot be changed that way is to suggest that all law is useless.
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      • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
        Yes there are consequences for the use of force in our society. That's good enough. Businesses should be free to associate with whatever clients they wish- just as clients are. Is it fair to say the potential client is the only one with achoice in the transaction? You can punish behavior but you will not transform what a person believes. You will only regulate their actions. Where do you draw the line? If abusiness is truly not allowed to freely associate they should have to provide service to unsavory elements of society known criminals those they do't get along with unwanted trespassers etc. Govt force is a bad idea on this. And Id like to add not a big issue. Rare in fact that businesses discriminate against sexual orientation-unless in fact political issues are forced in their face. If you are picketing outside my place of business against me and come in to buy a coke-I should have the right not to serve you. Businesses have reputations. Too much has been made out of a very small issue.
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        • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
          It is not possible for members of society to unite in peaceful cooperation without some level of government coercion. The idea that it is possible is the basic principle of anarchy, which I do not believe in.

          Ludwig von Mises discusses this in his book:
          http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-83rGVCeNZJE/Uq...

          You ask whether it's fair for the potential customer to be the only one with a choice in the transaction, and I say yes, it's perfectly fair because the business inherently has greater power than the customer simply by virtue of the fact that they control the product. Anti-discrimination legislation balances out that power dynamic, putting the customer and business owner on equal footing with each other, which is something that would not happen automatically.
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
            that is absurd. You want a product that you cannot find? make it, get it, facilitate it. what nonsense
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            • -1
              Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
              The issue here is not being unable to find a product, but rather a product being denied to some while provided to others for no other reason than because of the prejudice of the person who provides the product.
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              • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 10 months ago
                Please tell me where you find in the constitution that a business owner can be coerced to sell a product to someone be does not want to. Where you find that even were the decision be based on a personal religious belief, the owner can be compelled by law to violate his religious tenants and moral standards???? You insist that one individual's wants supersede the values, morals, standards of religious faith of another???? How can you believe this error???
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                • -1
                  Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                  The Constitution is directed against the government, not against the citizens. That's why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was an act, and not a Constitutional Amendment. Had it been an Amendment, it would have governed only the behavior of the government. To govern the behavior of citizens, the implementation of laws is required, and the Constitution grants unto government the authority to create such laws and regulations as needed.
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                  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 10 months ago
                    You're intentionally ignoring my point and you know it. List your point or I'm out. Last time malph. Your saying it's a violation is not proof. Quit acting like a troll.
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                    • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                      I believe I made my point perfectly clear. I'm not quite sure what you're asking for at this point. Are you trying to say that you believe the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was unconstitutional?
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 10 months ago
    Another highly false narrative of what the bill says offered once more by another of your gay is god web sites malph. It jumps right out saying how republicans are going to start instilling Jim Crow laws again - BTW, have you forgot the Jim Crow laws were written, passed and enforced by democrats, NOT republicans???? But it has nothing to do with RACE.

    This is nothing less than more gay propaganda written to the lowest of literary ethics.

    The real shame of this piece of trash is that you'd drop it on here with that horrible misleading title. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    You and no other person has any "RIGHT" to tell me that I have to do business with them. MY clients buy my services and if I don't want to do business with them, that's my decision. Have you ever actually READ Atlas Shrugged???

    What really peeves me is that I clicked open ANOTHER of your garbage ALL GAY ALL THE TIME channel threads, I get so tired of this crap.
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      Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      I listened to an audio book version of Atlas Shrugged, which is essentially the same thing as reading it. It's an excellent story, and there's definitely a lot of good stuff in there, but Ayn Rand wasn't right about everything. Her open opposition the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was perhaps her biggest mistake.
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