Survey! How Many Gulchers Have Gone On to Read Rand Since Coming to This Site?
You saw the Atlas Shrugged movies and you found the Gulch. You picked up the book, Atlas Shrugged and learned of a philosophy of life that explained how you've always felt but did not know how to completely articulate. Or-you hadn't read AS in years and were inspired by the movies to pick it up and read it again. Wait! Don't go yet! I want you to also let us know if you have read any of Rand's non-fiction since you landed in the Gulch. But wait! I'd also like to know if you have ventured to other Objectivist scholarly sites after learning about them here (seeing a video or clicking a link which was a cite). Looking forward to your responses.
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P.S. The Hotly Anticipated 2nd Novel in the Hank Rangar Series is Now Available on Kindle: http://www.amazon.com/Trails-Injustice-H...
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P.S. The Hotly Anticipated 2nd Novel in the Hank Rangar Series is Now Available on Kindle: http://www.amazon.com/Trails-Injustice-H...
The summer before K's senior year in college she had a friend who was getting married. It turned out that the groom had a brother coming from Texas (to Iowa) who was single, but the bride had already reserved him (without his knowledge) for her sister. When the brother shows up to bar where the wedding party is meeting that night K decides that her friend had no right to reserve anyone. As a result, she and the other two brides maids cornered the brother. They had heard he was a little weird, after all he was not an Iowa socialist and thought capitalism was great. K and the other brides maids thought they would challenge him to explain all of Rand's philosophy off the top of his. The sister seemed to lose interest fairly quickly, but K and the other bride maid thought it was great fun to smile and joke and harass the brother as he explained objectivism. K went so far as to play footsies with the brother during his explanation. Despite this the brother took it all good naturedly and he got his revenge with K when he flipped her later that night. The rest is history.
"Flipped." Is that what they call it now?
Nicely done, db!
I have all of Rand's books, fiction and non-fiction, and all the original copies of the various newsletters, to which I subscribed in real time. I have all 3 Atlas films and other Rand-related videotapes. I have read AS seven times, including the new paperback edition put out by Peikoff's group. I sent him a list of all the typos (hundreds of them) in that volume. My own original volume is in tatters, and I've bought both the deluxe hard cover and paperbacks for friends. And yes, I have Branden's book on self-esteem and his vengeful Judgment Day, and Barbara Branden's biography of Rand. Read them with a grain of salt.
I have lived through, in real time, the Rand/Branden split and the Peikoff/Kelley split. It amused me greatly when I first joined the Gulch that, in the first discussion in which I participated, one of the commenters accused me of being a Communist. I appreciate that the disruptive elements have been purged or have chosen to withdraw from the Gulch. The conversations here are a bright spot in the otherwise dismal current state of the world, and there is always something new and worthwhile to learn. I probably spend way too much time here, amidst running my business.
I want to make clear that I am not a Rand worshipper. I admire the intellect that produced the statement of values and principles, the body of philosophy that expressed with full clarity and non-contradiction the values I had always held but lacked the words to express. It was like coming home.
!?!?!?!?!?! Any more to this?
The following year I left my husband. Ayn never knew how her seemingly simple remark, into which one can read a Universe of depth, had liberated me, literally saved my life and opened the future I have achieved. I did continue to have a one-degree-of-separation relationship, however: her attorney, Charles Sures, was also mine. He drew up my company's incorporation papers and later saved us from being destroyed by a malevolent partner. Moreover, Charles and his wife, Mary Ann, took some ballroom dance lessons with me in Washington, DC. (I taught dancing for 30 years.) The threads never end.
Glad you had such a great attorney on your side.
And ballroom dancing was something that my mom did, competitively in Pittsburgh and environs before I was born. (1967).
She and I moved to Arlington, VA in '75 and she worked in DC and on The Hill for many years before retiring because of health reasons. Small world. Are you still there?
I danced at a place in Springfield, but I don't think it exists any longer, either.
I will ask my dad about where she competed. That would be funny if you did by some coincidence, meet. My mother also taught, but in Pittsburgh.
Wonderful - agreed "The conversations here are a bright spot in the otherwise dismal current state of the world, and there is always something new and worthwhile to learn"
How do you approach quantum mechanics as an objectivist?
As it turns out this is a remarkably important question and it strikes at the very heart of how do we come to "know" things
As I understand it objectivism is based on two fundamental and essential assumptions;
a) Objective reality exists.
b) It is possible to recognize it when confronted with it.
Classical physics is deterministic while quantum physics is probabilistic. Actually that is a gross oversimplification but it does illustrate at least part of the difference between the two scientific disciplines. The problem is that both classical and quantum physics have survived countless experimental verifications and yet they are, or at least appear to be, in direct conflict with one another. An example is the wave-particle duality problem. It can be argued that for a lens to work light must be a wave and cannot be a particle and for film to work light must be a particle and cannot be a wave. And yet cameras work, Why? The conflict between classical and quantum physics is filled with such seeming contradictions.
In the case of classical physics we can predict the positions of the planets with any desired degree of precision at any point in time in the future or past. In the case of quantum physics we cannot predict when an atom in a radio isotope will decay except in terms of statistical probability functions. What's worse, the simple act of observing isotope decay alters the decay rate. In the case of quantum physics the act of observing alters the thing being observed regardless of how the observations are performed. How does one reconcile that with objective reality.
Objectivism for a quantum physicist is difficult.
I started investigating this issue recently (it bothered me in grad school in physics, but as prof who has written on this said, I was too busy and said I would think about it later). There seems to be renewed criticism of at least the Copenhagen Interpretation. One person who has been particularly critical is Carver Mead.
Heisenberg wrote a book Physics and Philosophy where (according to what I have read elsewhere) he is clear they were trying to base quantum mechanics on the ideas of Kant and Hegel. I have gotten his book, but been too busy to start my research.
About two years after reading most of what Rand has published (other than her books about writing) I had a liberal friend loose several different arguments with me as I used Objectivism to put down his arguments. He asked where I was getting some of these ideas and a conversation ensued in which he said "We need someone like her for socialism."
I told him to read some Marx, that was the person he was looking for. He responded "I have and his arguments are just not as good." to which I responded that perhaps he needed to check his premises resolve the conflicts and find the truth.
The movies got him to read the book and today he has not yet gotten off the socialist cool aid but at least he is questioning it and there is hope that he can be saved.
Every so often we have a good conversation. There is much that hast to be weeded from his brain and the process is slow.
Over several years he has abandoned helping socialism, but is not yet to the point where he accepts (I think he knows) capitalism is the only real way.
He makes me think of the wet nurse kid in AS.
That said, I felt like I wanted to shout from the rooftops what I had found! It literally left me bursting with a fierce joy that I had found what it was I had yearned for but could not name. It wasn't until several yer later that I saw the trailer for the first AS movie, and looked more rigorously online for sources of info. I found The Atlas Society first, then came across GaltsGulchOnline....
I've been a producer ever since, and have never looked back. I must say that Anthem had a rather profound effect on me, as did The Virtue of Selfishness. It put things in crystal clear perspective. But my favorite AR protagonist is Roark, from Fountainhead.
I know at one point I heard Rand Paul, in an interview answer the question about him being named after Ayn Rand and he explained that Rand was short for Randall, but he admired Ayn Rand. I looked her up, watched a video that shed her in a bad light and I thought she was nuts...like left wing nuts (I have no idea how I got that idea). But I dismissed her. (omg!!!!)
I then saw Atlas Shrugged I on netflix and enjoyed it so I started researching the author and watched The Prophecy of Ayn Rand (also on Netflix) and I was hooked. I bought AS immediately, took it on vacation and devoured it on my parent's back porch a few Summer's ago in MI. I remember telling my Mom when I finished part I "This is where the movie left off, but there is sooo much more going on in this book than the movie. And so much of it is actually happening in this country right now, and this was written in the 50's! You HAVE to read this!" (And she did :)).
I soon starting looking for info on Part II of the movie and found a website where I signed up for notifications...soon thereafter I was informed of galtsgulchonline and I dove in head first without blinking.
I have since read many of her other works, both fiction and non fiction, sometimes more than once and I am continually blown away by the spot on perfection of Rand's explanations and reasoning.
My only regret is not finding my way to Objectivism sooner. Finally, somewhere where everything makes sense. Much like sitting on your parent's back porch and breathing the fresh air of HOME. :)
We did. I shall always, also, my friend.
Back here in Mi. the fresh air is finally back to a pleasant temperature. The fruit trees in my yard are blossoming and the lilacs are in bloom. Your comments are like that breath of fresh air.
I also intend to move from Mi. as soon as possible, but I too know in some ways it will always seem like home. My mother is living in Florida and tells me all the time how much she misses the Mi. summers. Winters, not so much! It is my intention to join her there and assist her in her remaining years. She is the only parent still living between myself and my wife. We share her love. I hope she lives a long healthy life so I will be there in time. Many years back I loaned her my copy of AS. She read it and approved. She is more of an objectivist than she knows, but philosophy is not a particular interest to her. She is more interested in less substantive entertainment and John Grisham type novels.
Regards,
O.A.
Ps- watch out for flying margaritas..
As far as teaching, I'm still learning.
Since 1983? I have read many newsletters and every book (fiction and non-fiction) I know of written by Rand as well as a few compilations of essays produced after her death except the Romantic Manifesto, The Night of January 16th, and We the Living*. I also read/studied Piekoff's Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand. I have found the non-fiction just as compelling as the fiction, though perhaps not as entertaining. I have DVDs of *We The Living, The Fountainhead, A Sense of Life, and of course all of the AS movies. I have watched as many youtube videos of Rand interviews and other objectivist related ones as I could find. Most of this I have done before coming to this site, or for that matter, the at least two? other previous iterations of this site I contributed to. After joining the first Gulch I did read Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology and The Voice of Reason. During my time on this newest Gulch site, my only new material exposure has been the movies, and newer lectures etc. linked from this site.
I have always wanted to read The Romantic Manifesto and We the Living, but somehow they keep eluding me. So many books, so little time...
Regards,
O.A.
The Night of Jan 16, well, amazing.
You truly are a most special friend here. I have learned much from your guidance and thoughtful comments and suggestions. Thank you for being part of that journey.
Your friend,
NMA
You are always such a wonderful supportive spirit. I will try to get to those few remaining Rand treasures. I like to think my bride and I are both very fortunate. We have been together now for about 34+? years with only a handful of disagreements that even rose to the point of raised voices, then sanity quickly returned and one realizes what is truly important and how insignificant the little things are. Don't sweat the small stuff and remember it is almost always small stuff.
Thank you for all of your support,
Your friend,
O.A.
Always with deep friendship,
NMA
Have fun and no yelling! :)
Best wishes,
O.A.
P.S. Make sure you watch the sunset and share the beauty of it all together.
I just read aloud to my bride your original inquiry, my comment and your reply to me. She just smiled. I'm such a lucky guy to have such loves.
Your friend,
O.A.
Your friend,
NMA
The feeling is mutual. Though I have a lot of friends, male and female, non touch my mind in such a simpatico way as those of you here in the Gulch. It is those of you that use and share my appreciation for objectivity and reason that keep me in fair spirits, for without this venue I would believe the entire world mad.
I love my gulch guys and gals.
Best wishes.
O.A.
In my 20s I was working with another young man in real estate finance and development. He had read AS and often recommended it, as he thought my views were developing in that logical way. I was too busy with my career for reading fiction at the time. A few years later, I was flying on business frequently and one trip took me to Detroit. While there I visited my uncle and he had a paperback of AS in his bookcase, and he gave it to me. I read it slowly as I travelled over the next few weeks. The front cover wore off from travelling in an overstuffed leather bag, but I taped on a DIY front cover and kept reading. I still have that worn copy. I have since bought almost everything Rand wrote in its first published form if possible, and have read almost all of it. (Still have to find time to read some Objectivist, Objectivist Newsletter, and Ayn Rand Letters.)
I began reading it after school on a Friday...was abstracted through dinner...continued reading as soon as dinner was done. When my mother woke up in the morning, I was in the middle of Galt's speech. She pointed out that I had not yet done the dinner dishes (my chore) from the previous night. "I will, I will. Just let me finish this chapter." An hour later I finished. Wow.
I got up to do the dishes, and stumbled...I had sat in the same position all night, reading. My mother looked at me, "You look beat - go to bed. I'LL do the dishes. Just go."
That was my real intro to Rand. It is not so much that I felt I wanted to follow her philosophy as that she had elegantly articulated the thoughts I was forming in my own brain. Her words 'clicked' into place - and have not left.
Jan
(That was pretty nice of your mom to do the dishes for you also.)
NMA
It has been 15 years and I still miss her.
Jan
Jan
Looking for word on #3, brought me to the Atlas Shrugged site, which led me here.
I have a mix of both her fiction and non-fiction.
But that said, she had to have something remarkable to work with in the first place.
Since reading AS, I've read everything AR has written, and AS several times.
I retired 20 years ago and have not read AS during those 20 years. My daughter bought me a nice new copy for Mother's Day.
What was a nice serendipity, there were four 30 yr old couples there and me opening my copy of AS brought the subject of AR and her philosophy to the crowd.
I wished I had copies to give to them. (note to self, I will get some to give away)
I go to many O sites that I find reference to while being "in the Gulch".
I have not seen the movies as I like to read better than watch films.
I'm glad you found the Gulch. :-)
I had not really spent more than a couple of minutes at any other Objectivist sites until the last week. I wanted to see who was speaking at The Atlas Summit and what they were speaking on. I was quite disappointed to see that there was no science/engineering/technology to complement the philosophy. I find it very common amongst my colleagues and my students to see that their interests go far beyond the nerdy ones you might expect. About half of my science and engineering colleagues perform music in public, for instance.
The Atlas Summit focuses on Objectivism and its relation to life. We offer sessions on the arts, on philosophy, on history, politics, and culture, and on the art of living well.
There are a variety of topics we don't normally host, from dietary advice to technical topics in science and engineering. But sometimes we are fortunate enough to have reports on philosophy of science or on the implications of new technology.
This year, Robert Hayden will speak on the industrial revolution in New England: that's old tech, but the emphasis will be on engineering achievements.
Dale Halling will speak on the sources of economic growth. He will emphasize the importance of technological innovation.
Many Atlas Summit attendees are interested and/or work in science and technology.
See the whole schedule at www.atlassociety.org/as
http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/d9...
The other was in the Producers Lounge.
While quite a few people have contributed to the discussion, the primary contributors thus far offline have been freedomforall, johnpe1, and Temlakos (who lives 5 miles from this year's Atlas Summit).
New Hampshire is lovely in June.
last year at Atlas Summit they had Ladar Levision of lavabit there (they provided Snowden his secure email). He did not delve in depth into the technology of his secure email system and how he was going to make it better, but he did discuss it at a high level. I had a chance to talk with him after the sessions and we discussed some ideas of how to eliminate even the metadata information.
Also David Harriman was there. He is a physicist who has studied the philosophy of science and induction and has some great stories about Newton.
I used to go to these technology start-up conferences and all they talked about was how to raise money or how to handle employees, not a word on actual technologies. I thought they could at least have a panel discussion on the hottest new technologies or something like that, while explaining a little about the technologies.
Perhaps you and I should brainstorm on what would make a good talk for 2016 that is about technology and objectivism/Rand. I have thought that a talk about the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics would allow for a good cross over between science and objectivism. I saw a good paper that compared Objective Oriented Programming to Rand's epistemology Perhaps a history of an area of technology that is related to Atlas Shrugged might be of general interest. Thoughts?
In Atlantis, Galt gave lectures on physics. One clever addition to the Atlas Shrugged movies that was not in the original novel was a mentioning of the Casimir effect with regard to Galt's motor. I knew about the Casimir effect at the time, but was by no means was an expert at it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_eff...
The Casimir effect was explained correctly in the movie. Positioning of two parallel plates at the time of AR's novel to several nanometers apart would not have been possible then. The machining tolerances still aren't good enough for a fully functional motor based on the Casimir effect, but I think they will be in a couple more decades.
I was actually thinking of leading off a talk on "The Basics of Nanotechnology" with references to the movie regarding the Casimir effect.
Heisenberg wrote a book on philosophy and physics, which I want to delve into in more detail.
online gulch in '13. . you and the fine folks here are
now an extraordinary part of my life. . Thank You!!! -- j
p.s. I read everything I can grab, about Rand!
.
comes another great read! . Thanks!!! -- j
.
My acquaintance with Ayn Rand’s work began long before the movie hit the screens. I first read Atlas Shrugged in the 1960’s and immediately took out a subscription to The Objectivist and began reading her other works shortly thereafter. For several years in the 1970’s I participated in a Pittsburgh-area Objectivist group led by Fred Seddon and Herb Heller. Even though I’ve considered myself an Objectivist most of my adult life, it wasn’t until leaving the corporate world and a demanding career that I treated myself to reading further with the books of Peikoff (Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand), Smith (Viable Values and Ayn Rand’s Normative Ethics) and many others. These works served to solidify in my mind that Objectivism indeed offers a constructive, uplifting, insightful, life-affirming outlook unmatched by other philosophies I have encountered.
Anticipating retirement and after moving to a small town in western North Carolina, I found myself longing for the intellectual stimulation and companionship that the Pittsburgh group offered. Not unexpectedly, relatively small towns like Hendersonville and Asheville had no such groups up and going. In fact, for a few years I thought maybe I was the only Objectivist in all of western NC. We are in the midst of the Bible Belt, after all.
In 2010, upon learning that Atlas Shrugged the movie might finally become a reality, I thought maybe its release would bring a few other well-hidden Objectivists out of the woodwork or sufficiently raise the interest of others so that a local Objectivist group might attract a few people and gain some traction. So, I set up an informal group named Western North Carolina Objectivists (WNCO), advertised it on-screen at a small, one-screen local theater for the month preceding the movie’s release. That ad garnered a couple of interested parties as did some other out-reach efforts. We advertised a private showing of AS, Part 1 with a discussion to follow. That showing attracted about 25 attendees, many of whom are still active with WNCO. Our fist series of meetings were book club-style discussions featuring Atlas Shrugged (of course). Over the years we have been meeting monthly with anywhere from just a few to around 20 attendees. Not bad for a little town I fondly refer to as Hooterville.
A couple of years ago another group started up in Asheville headed by Dennis Desimone who last year presented a sold-out extension course at UNC Asheville called, “Ayn Rand: Her Life and Her Philosophy.” Dennis has done a fantastic job of introducing Objectivism to newcomers to Rand and providing a rallying point for others in the Asheville area.
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