Last Survivor

Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 11 months ago to Movies
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I just saw a movie about the Navy Seals in Afghanistan titled Last Survivor. Go see if you have the stomach and then consider a donation to the Wounded Warriors Fund. Fucking Rules Of Engagement.


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  • Posted by lostsierra 10 years, 11 months ago
    Once upon a time long long ago in a land far away. . . My father's destroyed was cruising off the coast of the empire only 1/4 mile off shore. They were bait, to test defenses. They cruised off a village and a fish cannery. "All STOP." The 5" 38s were swung round and trained on the cannery. "FIRE" There was a huge explosion and then a collossal series of blasts one after the other. "CEASE FIRE" The whole village and cannery were blown to bits, not an outhouse left standing. The cannery and village were an ammo dump. Rules of engagement? There's only one - win. And let the casualties fall where they may. I have been in the same type of situation as Lone Survivor and made the call both ways. Both times my judgement was correct. Former merc and former merc commander.
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    • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 11 months ago
      I spent my time in Vietnam on a river patrol boat. It was not a question of where the enemy was, it was just a question of will I'lI take fire from that tree snag or that boat house today. We could not blow away everyplace we knew they were or there would not have been any civilians left. We had to wait until they fired at US. That reality did not make being bait easier.

      When I could I got out of the Navy, went to school, became an officer in the Army. Met people who wrote "rules of engagement". Saw they could lie better than anybody I've met in my life.

      Glad your Dad made it home. Too many didn't for no good reason.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 11 months ago
        Too many didn't for the same reasons too many are making it home from the middle east today in pieces.

        Thank you both for your service, and my apologies to both of you.

        "We could not blow away everyplace we knew they were or there would not have been any civilians left."

        As Commander in Chief, I would have found that an acceptable outcome. Not optimal, but acceptable.

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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 11 months ago
    While Rules of Engagement are necessary, what has been laid upon our military since VietNam has resulted in unnecessary deaths - both US and enemy. This has gotten even worse under O with academics and lawyers having absolutely no military experience dictating unreasonable expectations - basically to a level of legalese one would find used by the police.
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  • Posted by susan042462 10 years, 11 months ago
    I saw the trailer, no way I'm going. That would be a 2 kleenex box movie for me. I already give to WW and the Gary Sinise Foundation as much as I can. My hubby got lucky, 23 years in uniform and no major injuries. I thank God for that every day.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 11 months ago
    The SEAL team found themselves in a no-win situation. From an operational standpoint, mission security had been breached by a chance encounter with "civilians". The quandary then was moral: whether or not to risk mission security and continue with the mission by letting them go or to maintain mission security while ignoring their conscience. It is a quandary for anyone: can you kill an unarmed person in cold blood - even if it might mean your own life as a result.

    It is a question that can only be answered when one is confronted with it, and the answer will come only after some pretty extreme soul-searching. It will be based on your morals, your beliefs, and will define your character forever.

    It is easy to criticize or to lobby one way or the other. Much harder to have to make the decision. I give them credit for being in an untenable position and yet choosing to uphold the American principles of freedom even though it cost them their lives to do so.
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 11 months ago
      Agreed on how hard the decision would be.
      Were I alone, I probably would let the non-combatant go.

      If it means my life or the non-combatant, that's one thing. But if it means the life of one or more of my fellows...

      I do know that, as CinC, if my boys are put in a position to make that decision, regardless of how they decide, I'll back them up to the hilt. Presidential pardons if necessary.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 11 months ago
      True. One of the options was to tie them up. They could have returned to untie them, since their mission was just surveillance. I was surprised that there wasn't any language skills represented with the team.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 11 months ago
        Operations even for normal soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan relied heavily on paid interpreters since the local dialects take years to learn. Couple that with the rigorous (understatement of the year) training of SEAL's and language skills are unlikely to be added to a SEAL's training any time in the near future.

        I also got a civilian briefing/presentation on Afghanistan by an Air Force Colonel who was stationed there. He said that another problem the forces face over there is that EVERYONE in a village knows everyone else and they are very clan-oriented. Even if there had been an interpreter, as soon as the civilians escaped they would have notified the village anyway.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 11 months ago
    Okay, so I come into the Last Survivor post from the "New" post list, and here are all the comments.

    I come into the Last Survivor post from DaveM49's comment in the recent comments list, and there are no comments visible... including the comment I posted asking why I couldn't see any comments... said comment is not visible here.

    I are very confused...

    Oh, wait... NOW I can see my WTF post...

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  • Posted by $ Commander 10 years, 11 months ago
    I have two friends..Clay and Wayne. 30 and 33 months, respectively in inland POW camps Nam due to these expletive "rules". Harvey was a SEAL...same situation.
    They sense when "wrongness" is about them. Their eyes change. Gibran calls the eyes; "The windows to the soul". Haunting
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  • Posted by mminnick 10 years, 11 months ago
    Did anyone see the full interview with Marcus and his wife on CNN? I saw a clip on the Kelly Files (Fox News) and if the entire interview was done in that fein I don't know why Marcus sat there and didn't getup and walk out. In the segment I saw, the interviewer was a total jerk.
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  • Posted by amagi 10 years, 11 months ago
    A book which covers all issues raised here is
    Elan Journo's "Winning the Unwinnable War -
    America's Self-Crippled Response to Islamic
    Totalitarianism".
    Highy recommend it !
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  • Posted by DaveM49 10 years, 11 months ago
    How can there possibly be "rules" in combat?
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 11 months ago
      If you believe that you are fighting a "just war" then there should not be any "rules" beyond basic morality. The only one able to evaluate a situation and act is the one in the situation. An immoral person (such as Lt. Calley re: Mi Lai VietNam) will not bother to follow any ROE. A moral person will not need artificial constraints to behave appropriately. As said above, most ROE are created by those who don't have to answer to the bullets.
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 11 months ago
      Depends on whether you're derived from European culture or not.
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      • Posted by DaveM49 10 years, 11 months ago
        You have a point. I am reminded of an interlude in Eric Williams' classic "nonfiction novel", "The Wooden Horse". Two men escaping from a German prison camp during WWII, along with those who are assisting them, encounter one last bar to freedom: a German sentry who, if left alone, will lead to their capture.

        Two sneak up on him, club and strangle him to death, and end up escaping successfully. Author Eric Williams received so many angry responses to the scene that in a revised version of the book, he removed it and claimed it was fictionalized.
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      • Posted by amagi 10 years, 11 months ago
        Hiraghm, Please explain.
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 11 months ago
          In Europe, at the end of the Middle Ages, small wars sprang up all over the continent. They were fought by mercenary companies. Most of these small wars were political or territorial, to settle disputes, not exterminate the opposition.

          The Church and the mercenary captains came up with The Laws of War, a code of warfare that limited the horror inflicted upon civilian populations, and minimized the expense (in terms of men and munitions lost) for the mercenary companies.
          This lasted, to one degree or another, until the Confederate War. Since then, the applicability of the Laws of War decayed.

          Asian, African and other cultures never went through this mercenary period, so they didn't develop the laws of war.

          An example is the Japanese treatment of PoWs. Our gentle treatment derives from the mercenary code and that era. The Japanese had no such transformation, and therefore developed the belief that surrender was unbearable shame, and if you let yourself be captured, you had no "honor", you were less than an animal (and were thus treated so).


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  • -6
    Posted by squareone 10 years, 11 months ago
    You sign up for an elite military unit and you get thrills and spills.
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    • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 11 months ago
      Someone signs up for one of units because they not only believe that America, this last great chance for human freedom on planet Earth is worth saving, but it is their personal responsibility to do so. There are people in this country who take the oath of enlistment VERY seriously. When they take this oath they know it may cost them their freedom, physical ability, limbs, or even their lives. Sure, there are a lot of people that enlist in the military to pay for college, to get away from parents, or because it looks cool. You do not find those types of people in SPECOPS or even in the general service for more than their initial enlistment.

      Honestly, your comment is disrespectful to those who have done everything to EARN the respect of us all.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 11 months ago
        Men are not potatoes; some... even many... do sign up for the very reason you give. Hopefully most do. Others sign up for other reasons, which I will not judge here. Personally, I have no problem with a SPECOP who passes the training, and who went for it because he liked it. No patriotism or moral incentive. I can't think of a better place for him.

        However, our military *is* all voluntary, and I will argue against any association between this army and past armies made up of draftees, as "victims".

        "You roll the dice, you take what you get", I personally think would be the best attitude for a survivor to have, in terms of coping with his injuries.
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