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A Gulch and The Walking Dead

Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 9 years, 8 months ago to Philosophy
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I had an excellent lunch last Saturday with an Objectivist, and one of the things we talked about was skills we have to offer to a Gulch. In that vain, I have developed a scenario to hopefully stimulate thought and discussion on this topic.

It's my post, so my rules. Here is the scenario:

It is a post apocalyptic world, either natural or man-made that resembles the 1815's in technology. There will be walking dead. They may not be zombies, but they are out to kill you and take your resources. There is no power sources anywhere in the world other than solar, wind and horse power.

A few fellow Objectivists and I have found and established an invitation only Gulch with all the natural resources we can use. We will send a few people out to recruit new residents, much like Francisco and John were doing.

There are 2 inviolate requirements and rules for Gulchers and prospective invitee Gulchers:

1: All people 16 years and older MUST be willing to truly and honestly, of their own free will, take The Oath. This may require a potential invitee to make a hard choice as there will be no exceptions.
2: The existence and the location of this Gulch MUST be kept secret and it will be defended.

What skills and/or resources can you bring to this Gulch? Why would we recruit you?


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  • Posted by gcarl615 9 years, 8 months ago
    This is my first post so please bear with me if I screw it up.

    I am over 65 and not as spry as I used to be but here goes with a skills list.

    I built my own home which included carpentry, mason, plumber, electrician, designer, draftsman.
    I have extensive project planning and management experience. I am a certified forms and process/procedure analyst and documenter.
    I am skilled with firearms and reloading as well as having all the manual equipment and supplies. I know how to and have made Black Powder. I know how to cast bullets and shot. I am a pretty good shot and know how to process meat. I am an expert canner and a very good gardener.

    I have a vast array of hand tools for many different things, like auto repair, wood and metal working. I never learned how to weld though it is on my bucket list.

    I am an experienced woodsman. I cut, split and stacked over 100 face cords one fall.

    I have a pretty good library and have studied the founders and resultant documents extensively.

    I can Program in several languages, and know how to repair older computer,so if one of you really smart folks can produce electricity then perhaps we can get some computing power going.

    I am a notary public, don't know if that is valuable or not.

    I have blacksmith tools and am currently learning how to use them.

    I am an Eagle Scout and have a lot of First Aid knowledge and supplies/

    Oh and I love dogs....
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 8 months ago
      That sounds like a complete Renaissance Gulcher, gcarl! Welcome. You sound like an asset.

      I used to do blacksmithery - set up basic forges in a couple of places (not difficult to do). I had to quit as it was too hard on my hands, but I would be glad to work with you to build a forge (and maybe dink around a bit). The most important item to have in a primitive forge is a source of 'wind': bellows or hand-crank air supply (because blow dryers are not likely to work too well without the electricity).

      Jan, loves dogs too
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      • Posted by gcarl615 9 years, 8 months ago
        I used an old truck brake drum for a hearth and a blower motor from a blow up bed( odd I know). I have recent found a website that sells a very cool hearth and manual blower relatively cheap.(HOMESTEADSTORE.COM). I intend to buy a setup, hopefully before Atlas does shrug. I used a big chunk of and elm tree for an anvil stand and a piece of an old railroad rail for the anvil.. Works pretty good. I should mention that I got the ideas for this out of the "Back to Basics" book put out by the Readers Digest. I would suggest to anyone who thinks we are headed back to the 1800's to get a copy now.

        I also forgot to mention that I am a licensed HAM radio operator. I sure hope the Gulch is not too far from my current location, because I will have to have a big truck to transport all my "stuff".

        Thank you for your reply.

        I want to also say that I took the Oath a long time ago.
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        • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 8 months ago
          That is how I made my two forges, only I propped them on a stand of concrete blocks and used a blow dryer for the air source. It also helps if you "T" the pipe that goes to the blower and let the lower arm of the T descend vertically to a cap. That way, any clinkers fall through the grate, they will be caught by the cap - and it is easy to remove the cap and clean them when the forge is cold.

          Jan
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  • Posted by xthinker88 9 years, 8 months ago
    I'm an environmental engineer by degree and licensing. Clean water, sanitation, storm water management, etc.

    My hobby is also primitive and wilderness survival skills. Shelter, fire making, some tool making (the rudiments for example of forging metal), some herbs and edible plants, etc.

    Former infantry officer and West Point grad - military tactics, fortifications, training, etc.

    And I'm just handsome as hell so I'll definitely be needed to repopulate the world. :)

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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 8 months ago
      We'll have to work together, xthinker88. I will need to hire an environmental engineer. I could do that job myself, but I am sure that I will need to contract that part of the job out.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 8 months ago
    I was born and raised in the foothills of the Ozark Mountains. We didn't have indoor plumbing till I was 14. I'm experienced at obtaining good wood for fuel, finding hand diggable coal, wild animal and food gathering, animal care, breeding, and butchery, homestead farming and canning, and most life skills with little or no tech. I've participated in the building and operation of a wood gas and oil homesteading type of generator. I've got my own guns and bullets and know how to produce gunpowder and reloads manually. I've experience in real life shooting and defense requirements. I'm pretty confident that I can make moon shine whiskey, fruit wines, and brandys. I also own, and have read a complete set of the 12 Foxfire volumes and several others of like Appalachian Mountain history and how to books that fully document the day to day application of how to live a fully independent, no tech life.

    I'm a graduate Electrical Engineer with experience in design, project management, construction techniques and management, and applications of heavy industry- water, wind, and gas fired power generation in underground and surface mining, metals refining and production, and processing, oil and gas production from near surface and underground shale and refining, paper (including toilet) and cardboard production. I've developed and taught Electrical Journeyman training programs and taught at Technical and Community College levels as well as supervised others in the same. I've directly managed budgeting, planning, and implementation of all work at remote site construction and mining projects with manpower up to 1300 men, equipment, and materials procurement in mountainous (9,500ft) and desert areas.

    I'm a fair technical writer, analytical while tempered with common sense, experienced in contracts, dispute resolution, and negotiations. I do well with people that are motivated, intelligent, and learning driven.

    And I'm a self developed, life long Objectivist, and as a direct descendant of Daniel Boone, I've often felt that I was born a couple of hundred years too late. Many that have met and worked with me have described me as a 'Renaissance Man'.

    But I'm kind of a shy and humble man. I also have a pretty good voice, according to some. Lol
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 8 months ago
    I'm your communications guy and a farmer. My day job is in tech, but I've been growing vegetables by hand all my life - everything from the staples like beans, corn, tomatoes, potatoes, to all kinds of berries, fruit trees, and grapes - including pest control, weeding, pruning, etc.

    I'm also a top-licensed (Amateur Extra) amateur radio operator (with gear that runs off deep-cycle batteries that can run off a trickle-charge from a solar cell). Oh, and I'm also on the local FEMA communications team known as ARES, so I can double as a spy on government if you like. ;)
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 8 months ago
    I will gladly convert surrounding biomass into usable fuel, energy, and/or chemicals for other Gulchers at a reasonable price, but one at which I will make a reasonable profit with minimal disturbance to the surrounding environment. When someone else enters the Gulch that has such skills or can outdo me in energy and chemicals supply like an Ellis Wyatt, I will gladly become the local metals purification expert until someone can outdo me on that. After that, I will gladly become the neighborhood's 3D printing expert, not only with polymers but our own little metals foundry, too, until a Rearden comes along. After that, I will work with our surgeons to develop biomedical implants for our aging Gulchers. As necessary, I can make custom pharmaceuticals as needed as well.

    As for defense, I should hope that we won't need to construct nuclear weapons, but if necessary, I was one of the last of the Cold Warrior weapons construction experts. It is a job that I am no longer proud of, but ...
    I haven't 3D printed a gun yet, but I know I could make a plastic one.

    When no longer able to do any of those things, I will be capably handled in the care of my wife/nurse, who is coming along with me. And Khalling, I have since asked my wife about The Oath. She will take The Oath.

    Oh, and BTW, aren't we in a society with walking dead already? ;)
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 8 months ago
      We do live in a walking dead society, which I think accounts for at least part of the appeal of the TV series. People accept at least on some visceral level that the current society is unsustainable and will collapse. Today our 'walkers" wear government badges and they have the NSA to help them.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
      All great skills, but are they doable with 1815 tech? That is part of the scenario.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 8 months ago
        "Are they doable with 1815 tech?" I would have no problem inventing the technology if I had to do so, but obviously would prefer to bring my equipment with me along with my knowhow. If necessary, I could become like the professor on Gilligan's Island, even though my face looks more like Gilligan. As for my equipment, if it were not destroyed and only subjected to the pillage of looters and moochers, a lot of what could be turned into real value for me in the Gulch is sitting collecting dust in a locked room in an off-campus building and would appear to be junk to almost everyone else. I wouldn't even get looted, but much of it might be thrown out as "trash". To me it is treasure. The lab where I keep that stuff would make an episode on American Lab Pickers (as opposed to American Pickers). Most of it was very high tech 30-40 years ago, and I bought it for a penny on the dollar.

        Maybe I better start working on the flux capacitor so that I can time travel to now to get all of the cool stuff to take back to our 1815 era. ;)
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      • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 8 months ago
        It's rather surprising how much can be reproduced using older technology, as is the craftsmanship and genius of mechanism built over 100 years ago with tools of the time.

        The object to be achieved was the idea and the theory of practice or implementation or operation that comes with an invention, when you already have that, it's not difficult to scrounge some ways to reproduce it.

        The soul exception would be silicon or optical-based computer systems, that would be impossible to build by hand I would think.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 8 months ago
      I will glad to start things out as being the person who lays pipes and puts in underground sprinkler systems as well, although I'll definitely hire some people to help with the digging.
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  • Posted by saucerdesigner 9 years, 8 months ago
    I grew up helping my dad in a welding shop and am handy with all sorts of shop tools. I worked as a electro-mechanical designer/drafter so I know how to make engineering drawings. I was a pro-pilot and flight instructor for 25 years, and even though I no longer hold an airman's medical certificate and thus may not legally exercise the privileges of my Airline Transport Pilot certificate, I still can fly an airplane.
    I have been a rock musician since my teens and still play (the bass guitar) and sing.
    I was licensed as a massage therapist in Utah in 2008. I'm into alternative therapies and use colloidal silver regularly. I buy the best (MesoSilver), I don't try to make it.
    I saw the writing on the wall when I got laid off from a job as an IT nerd and having my vehicle repossessed in '08 due to the "downturn" in the economy. As a result of suddenly having lots of time on my hands and no personal vehicle other than a bicycle, I spent a lot of time on the internet. It was during that time that I learned of the impending demise of the dollar, the 9-11 hoax and more. I have always been interested in growing my own food, so I looked for self-sufficient groups to join; "intentional communities" as I learned they were called. After a year or so in homeless shelters in Arizona I discovered WWOOFing. (World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms) through which I volunteered my labor in exchange for learning best practices, a place to sleep and wholesome, organic food.
    I'm currently working in retirement on my passion: an experimental VTOL aircraft concept of my own design and am learning CAD-CAM skills. I make my own grain-free granola and bake a pretty good chicken with cornbread dressing.
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 8 months ago
      I think its all about planning and one would want as much advance notice of starting a gulch as possible. Reminds me of the documentary on 'burning man' where people get together to make pretty massive things to take to burning man festivals. They get to use modern tools and then take the completed things out to the desert near las vegas
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  • Posted by $ Maree 9 years, 8 months ago
    1815s, ok :
    i do not panic.
    I can live hard.
    I have done some tough shit.
    I can manipulate water and shelter.
    We have to keep healthy - i have dug poo pits and made soap.
    I confidently navigate across a range of altitudes and terrains.
    I can manage horses.
    I can run, or at least walk, all day regardless of terrain and weather.
    I can switch between leading and following.
    But i cannot abide fools.
    I will eat anything. I mean, anything. I won't stop at dead horses. Which make more than soap.
    And still I do not panic.



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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 8 months ago
    For starters, the Oath is a given. I've been living it for years...
    If I can bring my weapons and ammo, the hardware part of the Gulch's security will be solved! As an engineer, I think that I have a few more good years left of making something useful; and my wife is a baker - and everyone loves bread. I have also spent over two decades working for the government, so I inherently know and can foresee the devious actions coming from the government. If there's any communication with the outside world, including protecting ourselves from it, this may be an invaluable resource.
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  • Posted by autumnleaves 9 years, 8 months ago
    I am a retired R.N., so I can work in the hospital. I will work in the veggie garden also. I do not like to cook but will volunteer to do the dishes each night! Hope you can use me! Lyn
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 8 months ago
    Communication is always a problem in any society. I have experience from writing/editing/publishing graphic novels, magazines, and newsletters. Script writing as a back-up skill. Also music arranging, composing, and organizing. Too bad I'm too old to do it all, but I can teach others. I also was a photographer and taught photography, but my skills in that area are pre-digital, so forget about it.
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  • Posted by woodlema 9 years, 8 months ago
    I offer an extreme and diverse skill set. Other than simple Project and Program Management, I am an above average welder, plumber, and carpenter. I have and know concrete building, weapons and am a fairly good shot, with no issue shooting someone fatally in defense of myself or my property. I learn fast, have several inventions and am probably one of the more creative thinkers since I do not recognize a "box" to think inside of.

    I own all my own tools, am a very solid auto and diesel mechanic, and I am also a Private Pilot with single, Multi and Instrument ratings.

    I have no fear of using a shovel, rake and loot to level ground in preparation for building, and have also spent time operating heavy equipment, like CAT 963 track loaders, D9 Bulldozers, Backhoes and Forklifts. I also have spent a couple years as a Real Estate Agent and an Over the Road Truck driver hauling everything from "fingerprint loads" to 127' beams for bridges. I think I could easily fit into the Gulch and offer significant value.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 8 months ago
    Old dino is kind of unique with a degree in journalism, 7 years experience as a newspaper reporter and 21 years as a state corrections officer at a maximum security prison plus working for four different security guard companies thereafter both full time and part time, Wackenhut the best known of the bunch.
    I can shoot straight but age, arthritis and expertise would make me be more suitable as an instructor/inspector of Gulch security.
    I could write memos on security problems and develop written standard operation procedures for various security posts.
    Hopefully, there would not be criminals among Gulchers in need of incarceration. If so, I'm your old dino.
    We may need to take prisoners when outsiders trespass or attempt to do so. Those we don't shoot? (What to do with intruders can be a whole topic in itself for discussion).
    I am a fan of The Walking Dead. I don't believe in predatory zombies (totally dreamed up for the first "Night of the Living Dead" creature feature) but I noticed that in the post apocalyptic setting of The Walking Dead the most dangerous creatures are humans who become organized cannibals and/or murderous looters.
    Yeah. there's plenty of work for old dino in a post apocalyptic Gulch.
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    • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 8 months ago
      Gold mining geologist here. So, dino, I'll need security against heists. Heists in the Gulch? Gold fever is a powerful thing.

      But gold does not occur everywhere. If we want real currency, the geology has gotta be there.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 8 months ago
        Shades of the Forty-Niners!

        http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fort...

        Too bad my cheap Spanish-made $100 cap n' ball .44 Navy Colt has a defunct hammer I can't pull back.
        At least I got to fire it for about a year before it became a non-firing conversation piece. Oh, well, you get what you pay for.
        That Civil War pistol is too advanced anyway. Recall reading that the Forty-Niners used assorted pepperboxes for handguns.
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        • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 8 months ago
          Interesting topic. Lewis and Clark took an air rifle with them on their trip, what 1820. It took someone most of the evening to pump the damn thing up. If I remeber it right, it shot a 50cal ball and could shoot several rounds before needing pumped again. They would demonstrate it to the Indian tribes they encountered along the way just to amaze them and probably cower them a little. The rifle is still on display in the Smithsonian.
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        • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 8 months ago
          I am sure that there would be a gunsmith in the Gulch. And you'll no doubt be able to upgrade to some pretty cool stuff.

          And the old codger on the web page with the beard and the gold pan? That's me. Scroll down a little.
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
        Would you prefer the rockies or the sierras?
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        • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 8 months ago
          The San Juans have bonanza grade gold-silver veins. Silverton-Ouray country. And typically more reliable water amounts from the sky, especially with current conditions in the Sierra Nevada.

          I knew an underground mining contractor from the Silverton area that put himself through college for his Mining Engineering degree by going up and working a vein on summer weekends. And that was with a gold price back in the early 70's.

          I worked with him back in '84 on an underground vein deposit in Arizona. A number of his miners came from the Silverton area and had "lunch bucket" obtained samples from the Standard Mine. They would sit on the porch of a cabin in the evening and just put a blow torch to the samples, and the gold and silver came pouring out.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 8 months ago
    I tamed a beast of burden...so there's that. oh- good at getting accurate information out of people in a stressful situation. don't let me be in charge of the map lol I'd be good at setting up a trading post, db offering a legal system for clear contracts and protection of property rights, and settling disputes rationally. really, we're still your idea people, but a trading post will be huge.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 8 months ago
    I can garden, raise chickens and I hope to learn beekeeping soon.
    Both my husband and I have home building/remodeling skills including plumbing and wiring.
    I sew just about anything. He hunts.
    We see the potential of things to be more than just what they are...but what they can be.
    Resourcefulness will be of the utmost necessity.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 9 years, 8 months ago
    JBrenner; this is going to be Steampunk Era sans Rayguns post apocalyptic America. You'll need to scavenge alot of material. Survival will have to come first. There will be some members who will have some guns and ammo. But, the basics must come first. Such as shelter, blankets and clothing, flamable materials to burn in some sort of stove also a potable water supply. I can bring assortment of hand tools, my pocket Mechanics Handbook,a knowledge of making gaskets for hydraulic and steam powered machinery; basic plumbing and wiring know how and how to make basic batteries. All for sale or barter.
    The fellow who can work with chemicals should be able to make gunpowder that could be used for mining and weapons.
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  • Posted by believer83 9 years, 8 months ago
    I am a nurse with 46 years experience---even without out 21st century technology, Iam able to assess and intervene in many areas using common sense, clean techniques, and the materials at hand to bring about effective resolution to physical problems. Additionally, I am a Reiki practitioner and a student of alternative medicine.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 8 months ago
    Pirate, are you building a database of the available talents here?
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
      Nope. The purpose was to stimulate thinking outside the box. One thing I find interesting is people are talking about bringing all their supplies/tools with them. How are you going to transport them potentially a very long distance? Do you have the skills to drive a horse and wagon when fuel for vehicles runs out? Can you drive a dog to pull a cart or sledge? Will you pull something yourself to transport gear and food? What about transporting little children?

      It's also not just about the skills you possess that will get you invited, it's also about your philosophy. Skills alone aren't the ticket.

      Expand the walls on your boxes people.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 8 months ago
    Everyone has what I call X-men superpowers. As we grow up, we find out what those are. Mine is as a troubleshooter and problem solver. I am a inventor/engineer/entrepreneur at present. My MIT engineering background has helped me a lot over the years to quickly learn whatever what was needed to thrive. A gulch would be cool, but I am a bit skeptical that it could be hidden in this current atmosphere of the NSA powers. I do think that "hiding in plain sight" is a very viable option, wherein people of like mind secretly deal with each other and get at least some of the advantages of a gulch without raising suspicions. I fear a real gulch at this point in time would incur the wrath of our socialist government and be attacked under some excuse like Ruby Ridge or Waco.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 8 months ago
      Ah yes, but the premise is 'post apocalyptic', so we do not have to worry about NSA flyovers...just walking dead. And we can sic the allosaurus on them.

      Jan
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      • Posted by term2 9 years, 8 months ago
        yes and no. yes -the government wouldnt have as much money, power, and influence, but on the other hand they would be much more ruthless and would tend to be in defensive mode and probably put their limited resources into things like the NSA. Maybe its true the walkers would be the greatest danger as they would be kind of everywhere. Maybe the writers of walking dead tv series were smarter than we give them credit for...
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 8 months ago
    I can identify the species of fungi (molds) that produce antibiotics and test the individual strains for effective output against specific types of bacteria. If freedomforall will give me a hand (since commercial production of beer is technically similar to commercial production of antibiotics) we should be able to turn out medically useful amounts of antibiotics. If jbrenner can produce some stainless steel, this would be a great asset.

    All of this can be done with 19th century tech.

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 8 months ago
    JLC and I frequently have discussions along this line, with varying degrees of what you actually have left to work with depending on what went wrong. I'm assuming, in your example, that we at least have our memories, and hopefully some books.

    One of my contentions is that there is a vast resource of knowledge about things that work. This will greatly speed up the process of reacquiring modern technology. For example in 1815 there was virtually no use of electricity, although you mention solar as one of the resources. Knowing the importance of electricity to future development, how tubes can be built, how transistors work and that integrated circuits are even better will vastly improve the speed of reinventing these things.

    You say there are no other power sources. Does that just mean in existence or is something preventing their creation (as in "Dies the Fire").
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
      Just in existence. Some type of world wide disaster has struck and all the tech with it.
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      • Posted by term2 9 years, 8 months ago
        The disaster will be a currency collapse, or apossible (hopefully not) nuclear war. Currency collapse would wipe out most wealth and throw the world into chaos. Knowledge would be harder to obtain as needed, but I dont think it would disappear. Those of us with good memories would be invaluable.
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      • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 8 months ago
        I happen to have been thinking about an aspect of this as I was jogging this morning. Any disaster would leave virtually thousands of very capable computers scattered around. Everyone's smartphone is a pretty damned good computer. They are low power and can network.

        I suppose you could imagine an emp that munched the chips, but I'm not sure how realistic that is.
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