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Why the Dole is a Hole

Posted by $ blarman 10 years ago to Government
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Let's see. An 80% reduction in moochers by just requiring these people to put in some effort for their "paycheck". And the fact that they wouldn't do it tells me they weren't that poorly off in the first place.

And of course the liberals are screaming bloody murder. Their constituents and power are suffering!
SOURCE URL: http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/04/this-is-what-happened-when-maine-forced-welfare-recipients-to-work-for-benefits/


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years ago
    It sounds too good to be true. Many able-bodied people on Welfare would refuse the money if it required vocational training and provided some childcare arrangements. If true, they should do this immediately. The value is not in the money saved on the 80% who don't take the money, but on the 20% who take the training and maybe turn their lives around.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years ago
      What? And get back to what a "welfare" program is supposed to be - a temporary measure to prop someone up while they get back to being independent? Say it ain't so! [/sarcasm]
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years ago
        Government should not provide welfare to anyone, for any reason. That is not the proper function of government.
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        • Posted by $ 10 years ago
          Notice the use of quotes and sarcasm.

          I, too, am against government-sponsored welfare programs - either at the Federal or local level. I don't think it is appropriate to use tax funds to take from one and give to another. My comments were in describing how they are sold to the public at large.
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          • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years ago
            The other factor is you will never be able to axe welfare until you do something to reduce those on it in the first place. This is an excellent first step

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            • Posted by $ jlc 10 years ago
              I agree with you XenokRoy. We can go further down this path, but this is a great 'baby step' to take as a beginning. I think the next step is, as CG said, the offer of child care for people with children whilst they undertook vocational training too. And someone mentioned recently the idea of shutting off the valve that paid for having more babies. That would be a nice 'third step'.

              Jan
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          • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years ago
            Thank you, blarman. Duh, I should pay closer attention. I get distracted by the commenter who thinks welfare is wonderful if it does the right things! Thank you for correcting me, and I'm glad to know you see it my way! :)
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            • Posted by $ jlc 10 years ago
              Mamaemma -
              I see it like one of those puzzles where you change the word, "MOOCHERS" into the word "BUSINESS" one letter at a time...but each letter you change has to make a word that makes sense. (No, puzzlelady, I do not know if these words can do this trick...just found a cute example.)

              We can do this, but we have to retrain a population in order to make it work.

              Jan
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            • Posted by $ 10 years ago
              No worries. I could have been a little more descriptive.

              The previous law (in the article) was welfare unlimited - the absolute worst - which allowed the recipients to police themselves. A very bad idea. Now it is at least to the point where it is the giver policing the recipient. A better situation, but not ideal because the giver isn't using their own moneys, but those taken from taxpayers. The best solution is where no taxpayer funds are being used at all - where all "welfare" funding is done by private charity. That allows for each to exercise conscience as they will without being coerced into supporting another's lifestyle or habits.
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              • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years ago
                I do agree that a little evil is better than a lot. I'm a very simple person; I believe it wrong to take from one person to give to another, no matter what the motivation. I understand we live in the real world, but it is important that we know what is right.
                Many years ago when I lived in Atlanta, the charity hospital instituted a rule that patients would have to pay 50cents for an ER visit and $1 for hospital admission. They had to rescind the rule; people rioted in the streets! Disgusting.
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                • Posted by $ 10 years ago
                  Seriously? For such a pittance? What a bunch of looters.

                  These will be the same idiots who riot and raid stores when a real emergency strikes. Glad I live out west. If they tried to get into my shop, they'd be talking to my shotgun.
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                  • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years ago
                    I honestly think it wasn't the money; it was the idea. The moochers were incensed that anyone would try to tell them that their care wasn't completely free. And that was 35 years ago! This attitude has now grown to include things like cell phones, for heavens sake.
                    Keep that shotgun handy
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years ago
    Community Service for the unemployed of 24 hours a week. Leaves time to hunt for work, what an excellent idea.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 10 years ago
      "Work"?! You can't be serious? Why would anyone one work for a negative return? Anyone using that word is easing kidding himself or trying to kid others.
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      • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years ago
        i think that if you get people out doing something, anything most people will develop a desire to do more. I have seen it first hand.

        I was the time of the post thinking it was 24 hours per week, not per month. Which is to little to create the upward spin of self confidence that would come for a person doing nothing to start doing something, and develop a desire to do more for themselves.

        I do not understand your comment however. I agree no one would work for a negative return. These people are being required to do community service for a return. How is that a negative return?

        Its a good move towards (although way to weak) getting people to develop a desire to be something and not sit around doing nothing. The fact that nearly 80% dropped off when the simplest step to keep the income was 24 hours a month of community service shows that they did not want what they had if they had to "Work" for it. Perhaps proving my rather optimistic view of how people would react wrong. Only 20% will grow and become better from this, the others are likely to turn to a more direct form of thievery for the work they are now required to perform.
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        • Posted by strugatsky 10 years ago
          The difference in our views comes as a result of a) your optimism and, b) my total lack of it. I do not believe that the welfare parasites can be couched into human beings. They have been parasites for several generations and, looking at their offspring, I think that one can reasonably conclude that being a parasite has become part of their DNA. Can they change? By themselves - NO. Can they be made to change - yes, but that would require a radical change of the system, e.g., a civil war, and I believe a bloody one. As it stands, for the parasites to actually work and earn something would count against their welfare "entitlement," so it would be counter-productive. As to community service, keep in mind that the socialists believe that laboring for the benefit of the society is a good idea for others, but rarely for themselves. I would bet that the ones that supposedly declined the work and the payments simply moved on to other programs that did not impose those inhumane requirements. It would be a rare reporter that would actually investigate a story completely. BTW, the video in the story, featuring a radio caller, is probably a fake. The information is correct, but the person in pretending, judging by the voice, accent and the delivery. Nevertheless, I have earlier added up all the "benefits" that a parasite with three offspring receives from the tax payers - about $70K per year, tax free. And someone here even contemplates that they would give that up for the benefit of not being a parasite?
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          • Posted by $ 10 years ago
            Yes. There is a very real phenomenon called the "welfare trap" and it happens right around $30K - $35K income wise. It's a dead spot in the wage scale that requires a huge jump up to about $42K - $44K to compensate for the loss of government benefits and offsets due to higher tax brackets.
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          • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years ago
            I did not think it anywhere near 70k. If it is then a person on welfare makes about 24k more than the average household income in the US today (down from 56k in 2006 to 46k in 2013). We are in more trouble than I think we are if you can really get 70k a year out of not working. Well over half the country would be better off becoming a parasite and doing something constructive with their time to develop useful skills after a financial collapse and a civil war.

            Even if that number is accurate, I can't do it. One becomes a thief or lives on less than those that are legal thieves. I still choose to be honest and so do a very large number of Americans. What a shame to put people in such a position to have to choose between honest work and a better life by theft.
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            • Posted by strugatsky 10 years ago
              These are $ per month. Some, like med care, is not cash, but would have cost that much to you and I. Some areas/states are give considerably less, some (like NJ), much more. The numbers below are for VA. Add to that the money spent on the welfare machine itself, which is at least 25% of what they disburse. Enjoy!

              Apartment 1200 - 1500
              Utilities 400
              Food 400
              WIC 100
              Med 500
              Cable 30
              Cell phone 30
              Home phone 25
              Car repair 50
              Entertain 75
              Clothes 100
              Child care 1500
              Additional $ for children 500

              I agree and support your desire to be a human being, but the parasites multiply at a much faster rate than humans, and they vote!
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              • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years ago
                Good hell.

                Now it may just be that things are cheaper in UT than VA but you can get a very nice place for 1200. I mean that would rent out my rental house and still leave 200 left over. Its 1800 square feet, or about double the size of the average apartment in Germany.

                I do not pay 400 for my utilities on my 4600 square foot home.

                I am looking at these amounts and even if I was ok with welfare, which I am not, they are excessive.

                Cable, Really? I mean TV is such a need. /dripping with sarcasm

                $500 a month per child, man that is a kings ransom.

                I have a family me, my wife and 4 kids. I was jobless for a bit and lived off savings, picking cherries and a few other seasonal jobs that did not interfere with my ability to take a good job once I found one. We lived on the equivalent of about 20k a year during that time.

                The feds pay way to much. I never checked into it. I had a first thought about taking unemployment cause I paid into it, but never intended to use it. Even with that, I could do it without taking it so why should I do it? I do not have the mind that can understand the people who do so.
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                • Posted by strugatsky 10 years ago
                  Virginia is more expensive than Utah, true. But one of the reasons for the high rents in low income housings is because the government is paying the rent. And because the apartments are severely abused, often destroyed because, again, the government is paying the rent. So, they may live in crap houses, but the cost for that crap is as much or more as for a good house. And, yes, cable tv is essential (to be fair basic channels only; they pay for the upgrade. And they do upgrade! All the way up!). So is the phone AND a cell phone.

                  Personally, I don't have a problem with drawing unemployment insurance when needed because you've paid for it, but even here it was designed for 6 months, but often extended to almost two years. This country is on a completely unsupportable path; it will collapse just like the Soviet Union did - under its own weight. I am just amazed how law abiding and docile the American sheeple have become - Thomas Jefferson would have been heading a revolution by now.
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              • Posted by $ 10 years ago
                Good grief. That's nearly $5K/month!

                And people wonder why we have a stagnant economy and government keeps wanting to raise the tax rates!
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                • Posted by strugatsky 10 years ago
                  The Propaganda Machine is working very well in America. Under the never ending cries of eliminating hunger, saving starving children, etc., etc., I have been asking the "do-gooders" for 20 years to show me one starving child - the response has always been the same, from the same talking points - "I know some one who knows someone." Meanwhile, walk into a food bank - the one in a small town in VA is almost the size of Costco. If you are affiliated with any of a number of "agencies," - legal thieves - you can take a heavy duty cart and load it with anything from toothpaste to sirloin steaks, soda and cakes. Then they make a pretense of charging for it - the cart is weighted! and you take that to the "starving" recipients (and yourself). That is on top of the food stamps (EBT now), WIC, free diners (food kitchen) and parties (yes, parties, for the morale!). The refrigerator there is larger than my house and same goes for a freezer nearby. I did not see any starving children there.
                  The worst thing, in my opinion, that anyone can do (in this respect) is to fall for this "donation" spiel and feed multiple levels of parasites.
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  • Posted by Wendyzagg 10 years ago
    Taking this outrage just a step further - has anyone here heard about a nifty little benefit called EBTCash? I accidentally pushed that button when checking out at the grocery store (meant to hit Debit) and while correcting my mistake asked the cashier, "What is EBTCash?" She told me it was a way for those with EBT cards to get cash back when they use their card. They can purchase a loaf of bread, then get $50.00 cash to go out and buy whatever they want; drugs, beer, hair color, fake nails, whatever. I was shocked!
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  • Posted by $ rainman0720 10 years ago
    I'm an intelligent guy, and I've got one hell of an imagination. But the idea that people becoming prouctive members of society is a bad thing? I have no clue how anyone could see it that way.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years ago
    A good example for all the other states that just do handouts, to follow. Of course, Gulchers have known this forever. People will take whatever is free so long as there are no strings attached. Seem to be the case with marriage as well.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years ago
    Add up all public assistance including taxes not paid on receipt of same. Multiply by one point five. That becomes minimum wage after taxes.l

    If the first number is pegged at that level of income required merely to survive the second becomes the entry level to do more than survive..


    At present there's no incentive to work following the standard model. Especially not to support moochers and looters. Now if one can do both???? Explains a lot about the popularity of lottery tickets.Or buying sow belly futures.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years ago
    If those on that dole were smart, they'd see that community-service gig as opportunity, not drudgery. It would give them that which would make them more attractive to a prospective employer: experience.
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    • Posted by MelissaA 10 years ago
      That's the thing the don't care about a perspective employer looking at their job experience, because they have no plans to be employed. Why would they be when the government will give them money and they don't have to do a thing!
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  • Posted by $ splumb 10 years ago
    I have a cousin in the Canadian province of Ontario. She was out of work for 3-4 months last year, and said that in order to collect EI (employment insurance), you had to prove that you were actively searching for work and/or doing volunteer work.
    She was shocked when I told her how it works here in the US.
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