Don't be an ungracious atheist.
Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago to Culture
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A is A.
Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. Ambrose Bierce
Jefferson: But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
When I get to talk to a believer, I point out that, "Your God gave us the power of rational thought. I use it, you don't."
For me it's simple: I am an atheist because it makes sense; faith doesn't, by definition.
Faith and belief, regardless of what some who believe choose to believe, is very selfish. In fact, it could even be extremely rational and atheism irrational if you look at it in a certain way.
[I'm not proselytizing, just talking..I'm the last person to speak authoritatively about God]
Consider (key word) living as Christ instructed (or trying to) hurts no one and helps others (though not everyone). Further, having faith is insurance against the void IF God exists.
To deny something simply because you can't prove it because of your current perceptions is irrational IF the phase/perspective of your existence changes once you die. To discount something simply because you can perceive it can be considered closed minded when science is talking string theory, multiple dimensions, and god particles.
Again, I'm just putting out food for thought. I personally think God wants us to scrutinize and figure out as much as we can. Why else do we each have these exceptional minds.
My bet is, whether God exists or not, is that He is a kind-hearted being ( Christian believers tell me that He is) that will forgive me for using the rational thought He gave me.
“The problem with believing in an afterlife is that it contains the seeds of a belief in a--- what shall I say? A pre-life? Something before life? Something to exist, a creator of something greater than what can be shown or demonstrated... maybe the metaphor called God.”
“You don't believe in God?”
“The wonderful characteristic about a belief, about belief as a concept, is that if one believes, one is relieved of the burdens of relevance and rationale. Beliefs are not truth. Beliefs are not fact, but they are powerful. Beliefs are the glue that attaches us to something bigger, whether it is fact or not. And I believe in my God.”
“Your God? You have a different God than everyone else?”
“I accept that my God is not all powerful or even all good. This way, I don't have to excuse why innocent men and women and little babies die at the hands of evil people, why some debts are created and go unpaid forever. I choose my necessary fictions with some intelligence.”
“What do you mean?”
“When a man or woman says, ‘I’m a good human being, I am beautiful, my county or my child or my God is the best,’ all those beliefs are necessary fictions, all designed to make us feel good when, if we faced the facts, we would feel stupid or lost or worthless or insignificant.
“Why did your God allow the holocaust or slavery in America or the tens of thousands of human sacrifices throughout history? Those people were not just unwashed, faceless hoards. They were individuals—individual, little baby human beings who suffered beyond your ability to conceive of pain.” Marcel’s eyes filled again and he sat silent, breathing deeply.
“Well, I guess—”
“Don't bother, Jack,” he said, emotional exhaustion slowing his words. He picked up the cotton napkin, dabbed his eyes, then placed the napkin on the table. “Let me finish by saying that a wise man chooses his necessary fictions carefully because, if he is honorable, he will be held to live by them.”
I loathe muslims, but I give them credit for one thing: the notion that god is neither good or bad and cannot be defined accordingly. To make that explains away quite a bit about 'why.'
If one "feels" the need to have a God, why not choose one that improves everyone's quality of life at the expense of no one. The Muslim god (small "g") improves no one's quality of life except the pedophiles, brutes, non-thinkers and sexually sick sons of bitches.... Were I to choose a God, I would be polytheistic. More options.... and excuses.......
It's what happens when one equates Existence and a God, or reason and faith.
"Existence exists, and only existence exists. Existence is a primary: it is uncreated, indestructible, eternal." Sounds a lot like God to me.
Again, from the same character in my world famous novel, Paris, Wyoming:
“One of the many burdens of age, my friend, is to make sense of the happenings that make our lives interesting.”
Jack smiled. “Which you’ve told me six or seven hundred times.”
“Oui. I’ve found that I can’t answer many of those questions so I ask them. It’s my contribution to epistemology."
As to the reference to "hope," hope is another necessary fiction. Hope can be inspiring, no doubt, but it still has not gotten me to win a lotto.
What in the hell is a militant atheist?
Someone who cannot tolerate anyone else believing in anything but nothingness to the point of mocking and ridiculing anyone who does. Violence could factor in but more than likely just being obnoxiously condescending in any environment encountered (including here).
I suspect you and many other would say "Nothing, you're done; this is why you take ownership of and make the most of your life."
So my saying nothingness isn't inaccurate is it? God and faith may direct the conduct of the living BUT its an insurance policy against the void/non-existence. What does atheism or objectivity offer after death? Nothing. So how could I possibly offend anyone in saying nothingness?
Also, I think you just made a remark about living a good life not being a waste regardless of after life stuff. I am good for the sake of being good, my rational self interest demands it. How is that wrong either? Do you think a person can only be good if they believe as you do?
I was not and would never suggest yours or anyones life was nothingness.
And religion is not just mysticism after death.. they are mystics in life..
You are right about my initial statement, I should have worded it more precisely. Again, it wasn't my intention to offend anyone.
You BELIEVE it offers a solution.. (wait..a solution to what?)... it's comforting to you to "believe", based on faith, but not proof. This belief is not based in reality it's based on a hopeful emotion.. Living my life based in reality is the life I'm certain about, right now. Reality. :)
Did you sing b o l o g n a ?
I mention my views fairly regularly (even if I didn't, think it comes through) but I don't club anyone with it. Those who I suggest are militant are those who attack me for mentioning God or faith in any capacity.
I was rather pleased and pleasantly surprised that my "Merry Christmas my Friends" post didn't attract militant responses.
FYI: Rand, to my knowledge, supported atheism because of the lack of hard proof of a God (and likely how any deity favors most things against her philosophy (removing focus from man)). You can't slight Objectivists on an Objectivist website for staying true to the tenants of their philosophy.
I salute you and belated Merry Christmas to you.
I reiterate from the Welcome to the Gulch page: "OUR PURPOSE:
1.We have movies to promote - Atlas Shrugged: Who is John Galt? is coming soon to Blu-ray and DVD. We need to get the word out and we want to employ your help.
2.We have ideas to spread - We're passionate about Ayn Rand's ideas and we hope to assist in their progress by engaging in some inspired conversation.
3.We have connections to facilitate - Have you ever wished you lived in the Gulch and could conduct value-for-value exchanges exclusively with like minded individuals? Us too. Let's."
Nowhere there do I see this site labeled as "Objectivist" or "Atheist," do you?
I believe that Scott (and the other producers) set this up as an open forum for those of us who support the movies - regardless our philosophical orientation, so long as we are respectful of the other members. I believe that for the most part, that has been a one-way street.
A militant atheist? You've never heard the term before? Someone who's just an angry, pissed off, active, vocal, "I hate God and anything anyone says related to God" atheist, one that gets in everyone's face about it at every chance they get.
I doubt it's you Zen, just it's funny that people do stupid stuff like that... "hey I disagree with you, I'm going to down-vote it"... whatever
The other few percent, they're the dangerous ones, because they believe the crap that the Koran says, "slay the unbeliever wherever they are", etc.
I don't know the true percentages for Christians, but I guarantee you more than 50% aren't truly Christians. But at least those that ARE true Christians would never do the disgusting things we see in the fundamentalist Islamists.
B) slaying the non believers is the premise of the Quran. Any of them who say differently are lying to shield themselves. C)Why do you insist on comparing Christianity with islam? I don't understand the point if that....Although true Christians have committed their share of brutality in history. Priests mostly. Whatever a "true" Christian is anyway.... everybody thinks they're a good person no matter who you ask so who's the judge? What's the criteria? And also, to what end, ....and who cares???
C) I'm not comparing them, if you knew who I was and my background trust me, you wouldn't think I'm saying they're similar on any level. Those "coexist" bumper stickers make me want to pull that useful idiot out of their car, grab them by the neck and say "HOW DO YOU COEXIST WITH A RELIGION THAT WILL MURDER YOU, ME, YOUR FAMILY, AND MY FAMILY, IF WE DON'T CONVERT TO ISLAM?" And if they give me any crap after that I'd also like to ask them to go tell my friends' family in Northern Iraq right now to "coexist" with them, because it must be an equally valid religion...
My whole point is to say there's people all over who say they're believers, but aren't.
And how do you know what believers believe? Mind reader?
This is another instance of religious conservatives obsessed over "atheists", as they confuse atheism with a philosophy as opposed to a rejection of the supernatural no matter what one's own philosophy is. That someone is an atheist says nothing about his philosophy or personal characteristics. That someone freaked out on an airplane is the least of it. It doesn't make any difference whether he is an atheist or not. Most atheists of any philosophy don't behave that way.
This thread attacking supposed "ungracious atheists", coupling someone's bizarre behavior on an airplane with he dishonestly calls "the attitude by some on this forum", is an ad hominem attack on the forum itself.
The "some on this forum" who reject Robbie's religious proselytizing are in fact in accordance with the purpose of this forum for fan's of Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason and happiness on earth as expressed in Atlas Shrugged. Robbie's constant religious proselytizing is not and does not belong here, including in the form of his latest vicious personal attack against the forum.
Reasoned, rational, and logical statements and even thinking are often difficult enough to achieve without the noisy hullabaloo and distraction of those convinced that their supernatural god will grant them immortality and can't comprehend those that have determined to live this life to the fullest, unabashed by the religious fear of life, death, knowledge, and self determination.
Sadly in real life, the oaf is the one who is weird.
But you're right.
Maybe I shoulda used the Grinch.
Did the Grinch change?
I can't remember.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Gri...
Yeah, he changed. Thank goodness I have a little time to go away, come back and edit.
Maybe Adolf Hitler. The only change he made was a bullet in the head.
Bwahaha!
And still, speaking of words you can or can't say in relation to air travel, I wonder if you use a term which indicates you are a fanatical religious observer, causes grounds for taking you off a plane. This speech would include "I have a bomb in my underwear", "I'm flying this bad boy to the WTC", or "Merry Christmas". The interpretation of each of these is left to the hearer.
I find your statement, despite the wink, offensive because it feels condescending to me. So, I am not sure that you are worth putting up with. Just my opinion.
All the best.
Maritimus
Jan
Equally puzzling is the attitude that one should be offended that everyone doesn't share one's own particular belief (or lack thereof). One of humanity's treasures is the variety. People like the unfriendly traveler must be either clinically depressed or deeply psychotic.
The Wizard's suggestion is that we say "Mazel Tov!" instead of Congrats. It does have a nice ring to it.