After the rant the first person said she would make him the 'gay marriage is wrong" cookie..... I think this guy went at this from the wrong angle.... this should be presented, not as a christian thing, but as a business owner having control over their business decisions.
double concur. lame stunt. we would have been more cleaver. people seriously need to step out of the way and let the pros do their job. James O'Keefe wannabee
This whole pro- and anti-gay commerce BS is nothing more than just that. BS. It doesn't matter if it's gay money, straight money, libtard money, rightwing money, elderly money, whatever - it pays the bills. If a bakery (not the biggest profit margin business in the world, BTW) can turn away business, then that's their business - and their right. But I can't see throwing away business - hell, if I had a "gay bakery' (meaning what - sells only maple bars, or donuts with holes, but not both? I didn't know baked goods had genders...) I'd make him his stupid cake - because I'd make money for doing it.
What I really want to know - is what the he!! is a "pro-traditional marriage cake" anyway? It all sounds like a stunt worthy of some weird leftist commie-anarchist group rather than something real. I'll give you one even better - what about someone who is both gay and Christian? Hmmm...
That was the entire point. It was to demonstrate the double-standard. It was an illustration in absurdity to logically show the contradiction inherent in the legal rulings. It wasn't made in good faith or for any other reason.
The thing I think is telling is that it wasn't just one bakery, but thirteen separate bakeries. One or two and one can dismiss them as outliers. Thirteen becomes a statistically-significant sample size.
Do you remember in the movie version of MASH, the 2 doctors who did the surgery on the baby called themselves "the pros from Dover"? I've always used that as you did...let the people who know how to do the job and you can go sit down and color.
There a heck of lot more heterosexuals getting married everyday than homosexuals (even where legal). While its the homosexual business owner/operators right to do business how he/she chooses I can't see it being a profitable business strategy for very long.
their profitability is beside the point. Either you own your own business and get to call the shots...or you don't... THAT's what they need to learn. (By the way, the girl at the cookie shop had a horrible mouth on her.. Glaring customer service double standard.)
In business profitability is the entire point...else you wont have a business for long. But I never said the business owner didn't have the right to choose who to serve (just as I stood by the heterosexual business owners right).. I was just pointing our the difference of the size and frequency of the two potential client bases
Yeah, I know..but that's their problem, and lesson to learn. And maybe they're located in San Fran so the clientele is over the moon..???? Or maybe it's just a feel good enterprise riding the lgbtlmnop wave.
I think that just means all the other acronyms of minorities.
As for lengthening acronyms, try this one on for size: POCLGBTQQGNCTSIA. (People of color, lesbian/gay/bi/trans, queer, questioning, gender nonconforming, two-spirit, intersex, asexual.)
Agreed, but the question is why wont they make the pro traditional marriage cake? I would argue its fear of retribution rather than something they really believe in.
You say or do anything pro traditional marriage today and you are branded a gay hater and anti-gay. Then you get dragged through the streets behind the horse, and nearly drawn and quartered.
The article makes an excellent point, though it fails to address the core issue directly. There have been lawsuits in the past against bakeries that refused to provide cakes for same-sex weddings or bearing pro same-sex slogans. These have been an affront to the property rights of the bakery owners to provide service to whoever they may wish. This example raises the same issue.
One might argue a question of hate speech if someone ordered a "GOD HATES FAGS" cake or went to a Jewish bakery and demanded a cake bearing a swastika or pro-Nazi slogans. But that is not the case here.
No customer has a "right" to service from a private business. To make a vague comparison, suppose a drooling, unkempt man wearing a Charles Manson t-shirt walks into a sporting goods store and asks to buy a gun, saying that God told him to go forth and slay demons. Is he being discriminated against should the owner refuse to sell him a gun? Does he have a valid claim that he is being persecuted because of his faith?
An extreme comparison, yes. But the same principle applies.
Ah, but the courts have ruled that they do - so long as you are a "protected" or "oppressed" group. If you are mainstream, you evidently have no such protection or expectation of service.
Indeed. I trust we share the same opinion of "the courts"? The Constitution of the United States guarantees "equal protection". Unfortunately, it appears to have been altered to "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".
Sorry, can't agree to your extreme comparison. Too far over the extreme line when you add the threat of physical violence.
I agree the article doesn't get to the core issue. Yes, business owners have been turning away customers forever for varying reasons. The trend in America of making people unequal is the most troubling to me. The latest iteration of this was when a professor had to apologize for saying that all lives matter instead of black lives matter. If I find the article, I'll post it. As soon as you allow one group to be more important than the other that means you've denigrated another. I thought we were supposed to strive to be equal even if it isn't completely achievable.
Yes, but did you request something written on it that was anti-gay? What's the difference between an anti-gay and a pro-gay statement on a cake? By law there should be no difference. I believe the government has no right in getting involved in determining who a business must service, but since it is in our law now, it has to work both ways. I'm also saying that it doesn't as evidenced by the videos.
What's the difference between this and racism? Racism also seems to be a one way street, white against black is a crime. What's the law say when it's black against white? Absolutely nothing.
It's just a lot more division and to keep the people busy with trivia instead of the real issues. What will come next, blonde against brunette?
The point is, I expect anytime you ask a bakery to put something that insults them personally on a cake, you might have problems. Go to a bakery run by blacks and ask them to put anti-black sentiment on a cake, and I expect they'd have an issue with it, as would a white bakery with an anti-white sentiment on it. If I went down to my local bakery and asked them to decorate a cake glorifying Wal-mart, they'd probably show me the door (and if they didn't, I'd wonder what they might have done to the cake).
It's not gay that's the real issue here. It's a person -- in this case, the one requesting the cake -- being an ...well, I'm not sure I'm allowed to say that word here, but I expect you can guess. :)
I just loved this comment from a 'person' supporting the views of Shoebat...
"I don't want the govt deciding what speech is acceptable or not. The christian bakers had the right to refuse as do all groups and the hypocracy of the gay supporters is contemptable."
I think this guy went at this from the wrong angle.... this should be presented, not as a christian thing, but as a business owner having control over their business decisions.
This whole pro- and anti-gay commerce BS is nothing more than just that. BS. It doesn't matter if it's gay money, straight money, libtard money, rightwing money, elderly money, whatever - it pays the bills. If a bakery (not the biggest profit margin business in the world, BTW) can turn away business, then that's their business - and their right. But I can't see throwing away business - hell, if I had a "gay bakery' (meaning what - sells only maple bars, or donuts with holes, but not both? I didn't know baked goods had genders...) I'd make him his stupid cake - because I'd make money for doing it.
What I really want to know - is what the he!! is a "pro-traditional marriage cake" anyway? It all sounds like a stunt worthy of some weird leftist commie-anarchist group rather than something real. I'll give you one even better - what about someone who is both gay and Christian? Hmmm...
The thing I think is telling is that it wasn't just one bakery, but thirteen separate bakeries. One or two and one can dismiss them as outliers. Thirteen becomes a statistically-significant sample size.
As for lengthening acronyms, try this one on for size: POCLGBTQQGNCTSIA. (People of color, lesbian/gay/bi/trans, queer, questioning, gender nonconforming, two-spirit, intersex, asexual.)
You say or do anything pro traditional marriage today and you are branded a gay hater and anti-gay. Then you get dragged through the streets behind the horse, and nearly drawn and quartered.
No business wants that.
One might argue a question of hate speech if someone ordered a "GOD HATES FAGS" cake or went to a Jewish bakery and demanded a cake bearing a swastika or pro-Nazi slogans. But that is not the case here.
No customer has a "right" to service from a private business. To make a vague comparison, suppose a drooling, unkempt man wearing a Charles Manson t-shirt walks into a sporting goods store and asks to buy a gun, saying that God told him to go forth and slay demons. Is he being discriminated against should the owner refuse to sell him a gun? Does he have a valid claim that he is being persecuted because of his faith?
An extreme comparison, yes. But the same principle applies.
I agree the article doesn't get to the core issue. Yes, business owners have been turning away customers forever for varying reasons. The trend in America of making people unequal is the most troubling to me. The latest iteration of this was when a professor had to apologize for saying that all lives matter instead of black lives matter. If I find the article, I'll post it. As soon as you allow one group to be more important than the other that means you've denigrated another. I thought we were supposed to strive to be equal even if it isn't completely achievable.
What's the difference between this and racism? Racism also seems to be a one way street, white against black is a crime. What's the law say when it's black against white? Absolutely nothing.
It's just a lot more division and to keep the people busy with trivia instead of the real issues. What will come next, blonde against brunette?
It's not gay that's the real issue here. It's a person -- in this case, the one requesting the cake -- being an ...well, I'm not sure I'm allowed to say that word here, but I expect you can guess. :)
"I don't want the govt deciding what speech is acceptable or not. The christian bakers had the right to refuse as do all groups and the hypocracy of the gay supporters is contemptable."
A wonderful WTF?! comment!