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Embrace Liberty of Vanish Republicans

Posted by dbhalling 10 years, 1 month ago to Politics
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Not sure if this guy is real, but if more liberty minded candidates can gain some traction (10% of vote) then the Republican Party will have to embrace them or go extinct. This one reason a vote for a 3rd party candidate is not a waste.
SOURCE URL: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/16/fed-up-voters-in-illinois-and-around-us-why-libertarian-may-tip-governor-race/#


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  • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 1 month ago
    Enough of the right wing has already turned libertarian that the GOP will indeed have to embrace liberty or vanish. "Establishment" GOP advocates such as Ann Coulter and Karl Rove have already expressed annoyance about this, but they'll never turn back the tide.

    We need to start telling them, in large numbers, that they will just have to move to us because we'll never come back to them. An "establishment" (= big-government) Republican candidate is simply an even worse choice than a Democrat, since he will spend just as much, and take just as much of our freedom away -- and the Right will get the blame. Why should we help them make that happen?
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    • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 1 month ago
      Hello jdg,
      I hope your appraisal is accurate and a trend. Many I have occasion to speak with that self identified as TEA party people (having taken a beating in the media) are trying to infiltrate the GOP in a stealthy way. It would seem that they are trying to do what the progressives did to the Democratic party. I voted for Perot twice. I often hear that I "helped elect Clinton."
      Whatever... One must vote their conscience.
      Respectfully,
      O.A.
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  • Posted by redoty09 10 years, 1 month ago
    That may be possible. But remember what happened to Ross Perot. Someone threatened his daughter and he dropped out of the race for a while. Got back in and still took 20% of the votes.
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    • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 1 month ago
      Re: Zenphamy,

      there's only one problem. Only Ross Perot made the claim about his daughter being threatened. No evidence was ever offered. keep in mind that Ross Perot, despite his business success was a very flawed candidate who didn't always make a lot of sense. No doubt, he also had a unique way sometimes of grasping a point that other politicians failed to see. The bottom line with Perot was that he simply couldn't manage to make people bellieve that he wasn't just a little crazy.

      Fred Speckmann
      commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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      • Posted by redoty09 10 years, 1 month ago
        I never heard of anyone that thought he was crazy even a little. He made more sense than any of the other crooked candidates of either party.
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        • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 1 month ago
          Granted, most of the crazy commentary came from talking heads, but if you do a little research on whether Perot was a reasonable person or not, I believe you will find hundreds of references.

          It's true, he did make sense on some of his commentaries, but when analyzed, he came up short on his solutions. I too liked his ability to cut through the stupidity of government, but his solutions seldom seemed workable.

          Did you ever truly listened to what to me often sounded like crackpot ideas. If his name wasn't preceded by the word "billionaire" no one would have ever paid any attention to him. This is not to say that other candidates were any better.

          Fred
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 1 month ago
            Perot did have his idiosyncrasies, but because he was not in the media's or the left's best interest, he was caricatured. Then an opponent found his weakness - a vulnerability to real or perceived familial attack. Most winning presidents don't have that vulnerability because they have no heart nor soul.
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            • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 1 month ago
              Re: jbrenner,
              I certainly can't disagree with the lack of heart and soul part. I would add moral compass and basic integrity as well, at least for the vast majority. he was also easy to caricature and whether we like it or not appearance, both physically and emotionally are indeed factors in winning an election.

              Just look at the way Mitt Romney was caricatured during his campaign, perfect hair, strong masculine looks and selfmade wealth. granted, he also had a somewhat privileged background, but he made most of his money on his own based on his intellect and education.

              As to Perot, no proof was ever offered for his claims of the Bush family having attempted to kidnap his daughter.

              By the way, Perot made most of his money from government contracts when he started Electronic Data systems. No doubt that when he worked for IBM he was their top salesman and saw a market that IBM ignored and he had a vision for a business that they didn't see.

              Fred speckmann
              commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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  • Posted by richrobinson 10 years, 1 month ago
    I have often felt that those voting for third party candidates would do that or stay home. I'm not sure they are siphoning votes from one or the other but the point about Americans being fed up is valid. I find it harder and harder to vot FOR someone instead of just against someone.
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    • Posted by khalling 10 years, 1 month ago
      I think one point everyone is missing is the value of the primaries. Don't think for one minute that the delegates brought to the convention by Paul did not have an impact on the Republican platform. Even if a libertarian candidate for legislature gets 10% of the vote, that is significant enough in a state for both parties to pay attention to. This was always my feeling regarding the Perot votes. Both party platforms compromised on many of the issues he ran on.
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      • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 1 month ago
        I didn't forget at all. That is why I'm still registered as a Republican. To pull them back to small government, non-intrusive mindsets.
        I think we have a better chance with this than strengthening a 3rd party. Heck, even a D wins, hopefully a strong Republican would have influenced their platform.
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        • Posted by khalling 10 years, 1 month ago
          well, I'm sorry, just got a demeaning email from "senate republicans" today, telling me they were disappointed in ME. fuck that shit. I am disappointed in THEM
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 1 month ago
            Most, but not all, Senate Republicans can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Florida is infected with a lot of RINOs. Such RINOs have actively sent each other money from their collective campaign war chest to campaign against anyone who attempts to rock the boat, even at the county commission or county delegate to the Republican Party of Florida level. This Florida election was the best opportunity to get someone with Galt values into a governorship anywhere in the US. The two parties put up an ex-governor who switched parties and a current governor with a very shady past and a RINO present. None of the above would easily win this election, if it were on the ballot. Adrian Wyllie, a libertarian, will get a sizable vote, but he just doesn't have the finances to get his name out.
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            • Posted by khalling 10 years, 1 month ago
              yea, teh sun ain't shining on florida...political-like
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              • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 1 month ago
                The sun wasn't shining, period, until a couple of weeks ago. I have never seen a summer with such frequent rain. My part of Florida is where most of the statewide Senate and House Republican leadership usually comes from. They are usually fairly conservative, but not particularly. They are definitely more conservative than your typical Florida Republican, but ...
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                • Posted by khalling 10 years, 1 month ago
                  I'm pretty out of it, living outside the country. but I am still hopeful. I have actually done some work behind the scenes to help key candidates. with my voice and phone...not money,unless we agree that our strengths can sometimes be currencies
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 1 month ago
    Illinois can really do no worse than they're doing now. I don't live in Illinois, but I do live in another "blue" State: New Jersey. If New Jersey is any guide, the Republican is probably a "reasonable Democrat" anyway.
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  • Posted by $ arthuroslund 10 years, 1 month ago
    AR pointed out in one of her letters that you cannot protect yourself with one vote. Most people know that but it puts us in a precarious position. When the constitution is ignored then tyranny commences. Why are people not doing anything about the tyrants currently in power? I suspect the same reasons that good Germans failed to stop Hitler when they had the chance and why good Muslims do not stop the radical Islamic killers. We are afraid to speak out for fear of both social and physical retaliation. Social from our peers and physical from the government. In my opinion, voting only validates a very corrupt system. In the old Soviet Union, people would spoil their ballot as a protest against a corrupt system. Voting for a third party in a “winner-take-all” system will accomplish the same thing. I personally prefer to not waste my time.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      I agree a vote in a lawless society is nothing and I don't know why people don't speak out. I think they secretly don't disagree with the goals (see the press). But AR also said something about not giving up as long as you had some semblance of freedom of speech.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 1 month ago
    One can either choose to vote FOR a candidate, or vote AGAINST another. Or one can "shrug", not vote, and have someone else determine the outcome.

    I think we all prefer to be able to vote FOR someone with whom we can identify. And I think many of us have identified that unfortunately, those candidates are few and far between - largely because of the Party apparatus which George Washington warned against but which probably was inevitable to a republican form of government.

    Me? I will vote FOR someone as much as possible, vote AGAINST someone where necessary, but in no way will I allow someone else to determine my destiny without my say.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 1 month ago
      imo, by participating I would consent to a system that purposely prevents any new candidate having the desired traits (ethics and favoring individual liberty above all else) from being able to run for national office with a chance of success.
      Voting has accomplished nothing of consequence in at least half a century.
      Someone else has already determined the outcome long before election day.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 1 month ago
        The only other option is to run for election yourself, and I agree that because of the way things are, the odds are stacked against you.

        That being said, I will continue to vote until that right and privilege is taken away from me. Fraud at the ballot box may happen, but at least I can answer myself and say that I didn't give up.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
          Politics today is defined by the philosophical and intellectual battles of 20-100 years ago. Politics can only vary in very small ranges. The one exception is a crisis, but the outcome is still defined by he philosophical and intellectual battles of 20-100 years ago.

          It you want radical change, then politics is unlikely to be a very useful area to spend your time.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 1 month ago
            Perhaps, but I would note that the general movement of politics in the past 20-100 years has been decidedly to the left. Both parties are examples of this. Democrats have now run so far to the left that they are indistinguishable from socialists. Republicans (for the most part) have abandoned any semblance of the conservative values they used to run on, which is why the rise of Libertarians and Tea Party candidates has even been made possible.

            But to me, the power apparatus is endemic of the people themselves. The people themselves in sufficient voting quantity think that they are entitled to a fat, dumb, happy life provided by others. The politicians they elect are symptomatic of this problem.
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  • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 1 month ago
    Based on his Issues, I would probably vote for him but it isn't just about issues. I dont' know if a GYM manager qualifies for a governor.

    I don't have numbers to back my claim (just trying to get this out before my work-day begins) but it "seems" most libertarians or other 3rd parties typically draw from politicians on the right side.

    I would like to see, or at least feel confident, that a 3rd party would draw equally from both parties. There are definite problems with Ds and Rs but I have always allied myself with Rs much more than Ds. Voting for a 3rd seems to hurt Rs much more than Ds and gives the Ds the advantage.
    I am registered R, but take the primarys very seriously and vote for the R closest to the 3rd party I would, otherwise vote for. It would seem, if we just pulled the R's to allign with our 3rd party we would get both the R-vote, the 3rd party vote and maybe even some D-vote.
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    • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 1 month ago
      I should also note that I typically do look for successful small business owners vs lawyers. I say small business owners because they would, hopefully, not have as many political ties and all the good-ol'-boy corruption that comes from it. But again, I make most of those decisions in the primaries.
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      • Posted by khalling 10 years, 1 month ago
        I'm married to one of the white hat lawyers. He thinks about philosophy and foundations in freedom non-stop. Mark Levin is a lawyer. Jefferson, Madison, Adams were all lawyers.
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        • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 1 month ago
          Obama was also a lecturer and a practicing lawyer before his political career. We can provide examples all day. It just seems, in my experience, business men have more executive experience than other professions. In politics those other professions seem to be law.
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        • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 1 month ago
          Re: khalling,

          No one denies that there are some good people that happen to be lawyers, but when lawyers are referred to in a disparaging manner, we are talking about the ones that become politicians who tend to be the less moral and honest ones. One of the major flaws in the electorate is that we think of lawyers as being smarter when in fact they seldom are. for the most part they are better educated in the art of prevarication as their very jobs depend upon presenting completely opposite points in an argument. furthermore, it seldom matters which side of an argument a lawyer is asked to take.

          Fred Speckmann
          commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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          • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 1 month ago
            I know plenty of ethical lawyers. Many of my close family are lawyers and my wife works for a world wide law firm. I also know of plenty of unethical lawyers.
            Regardless of their ethics, what is common, is their lack of leadership experience. They are well educated and, sure, they know the law better than most but can they lead?
            Now, look at our new ebola czar, for example. Is it coincidence that a new government position was opened to a lawyer? More politics with lawyers. No doubt, he was not appointed for his medical experience or even his leadership skills. He was appointed because they hope he will know to say and do things to prevent and/or hide scandles.
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      • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
        I use to buy the private sector, business person argument, but it has not worked out well in practice. Hoover was a businessman and Calvin Coolidge was a lawyer. Reagan was from Hollywood of all places and the head of a union. One of the problems with business people is they rarely understand that it is better to walk away from a bad deal.
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        • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 1 month ago
          A SUCCESSFUL private sector businessman should know how to and want to walk from a bad deal. I prefer business to lawyers because businessmen SHOULD better know how to budget and make difficult decisions. Lawyers, though educated, do not always have that same experience. Maybe an entrepreneurial lawyer...
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  • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 10 years, 1 month ago
    I know that I'm not voting for the R or D candidates in my states gubernatorial election. The incumbent is a typical tax the snot out of everyone because he spends too much. The R is not a constitutionalist. He's anti 2nd amendment. sigh... There are very few here worth my vote...
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  • Posted by Ranter 10 years, 1 month ago
    I think this type of third-party-spoiler-vote election should make us re-think laws that do not require a majority for election. We should probably have runoff elections in such cases. That way, the protest vote could still make its protest, but would not necessarily deny election to its natural ally.
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years, 1 month ago
    I agreed with abstaining from voting on moral principles for most of my life, but of late it seems I am voting against more than for any one candidate.
    Until the Democrat Party cleans up their act and gets rid of the Progressives, I will vote for the Republican running. Even if I have to hold my nose to do it.
    We are not a democracy, but there is a large faction in government and within the voting populous that act as if we are. If we keep ignoring this...one day we will wake up as a democracy.
    Yeah, some of the candidates on the right stink to high heaven but they are the weapon of choice to throw at this growing threat.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 1 month ago
    "To be sure, Grimm is a complicated candidate.He is pro-life, pro-gun, and anti-tax, but also pro-marijuana legalization, pro-marriage equality"
    This is not complicated.
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