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School absenteeism

Posted by VetteGuy 3 months, 2 weeks ago to Education
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This article goes into great detail about "incentives" to get kids to attend school. What happened to consequences for missing school? What has happened to parenting that this is allowed to continue?

I believe this is a significant indicator of the decline in the US. These kids are not going to have a clue about the national debt, dangers of socialism, or how to even think logically. These kids who have gotten used to skipping school whenever they feel like it are going to turn into workers that skip work when they feel like it. That won't end well, for them or their employers.
SOURCE URL: https://apnews.com/article/school-attendance-sick-day-chronic-absenteeism-270f6d07041760e90bf84d9f4108aa4d


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  • Posted by DrZarkov 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    The impact of the two earner family, with both parents working for greater material wealth. They've abdicated the parental role and turned it over to the schools, that have neither the time nor the legal right to enforce discipline. Teachers can't follow the kids home and make them do homework, or take personal privileges away if they don't attend school.

    Law enforcement has become sympathetic to the parents' dilemma, and less inclined to penalize them for their children's absenteeism. We're seeing a society that has abandoned personal responsibility.
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    • Posted by 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      I have noticed this as well, as the father of two daughters. With women being encouraged to enter the workforce, it has become the norm for families to have two incomes. So naturally prices for houses etc have adjusted to the point that it now requires two incomes to afford a house.

      Instead of affording women more choices, it has merely eliminated the choice of being a stay-at-home mom.

      One of my daughters has a good career [engineer] and this is the right choice for her. the other daughter would have been very happy as a stay-at-home mom, but in order to afford a house, she has to work [special ed teacher].

      Fortunately both bought houses years ago. These days, I'm not sure they could afford it even on two incomes!
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    Public education should be abolished, and turned over to private enterprise and home schooling.
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    • Posted by lrshultis 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      Because, just as government controls mandatory schooling whether private or home schooling, children would still not learn to think for themselves.
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      • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 months, 2 weeks ago
        If government-financed, government-operated schools were abolished, there would be more opportunity for children to learn to think for them-
        selves. Even in private, free-enterprise schools, this would not be guaranteed. But there would have to be intervention in the case of physical
        abuse, etc. (for instance, Dotheboys Hall in "Nicholas Nickleby".)
        ).
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        • Posted by lrshultis 3 months, 2 weeks ago
          Suppose government schools were abolished and no general government rules, would corporal punishment make students into free rational thinkers? Would the new non government daycare be better. Are you coming at the schooling problem from a libertarian or a religious freedom standpoint? I have found that those who are curious and want to understand reality will find knowledge regardless of type of the school. I was autistic and was well protected mentally from some of the teachers trying to mold me into some type of believer, government , religious, or social which made no sense to my self develop of my self. It was painful but worth it.

          Intervention by whom? Government? Private security companies? Armed teachers?
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    When I was a kid during the Fifties and Sixties, I heard of such a thing as truant officers. Never ever saw one, though.
    Harrumph! You'd think these days we'd have social workers making sure kids never miss being to be indoctrinated in public schools.
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    • Posted by bobsprinkle 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      As a child of the 60's I skipped school a lot. Never saw a truant officer. I was not on a good life path. About 3 months after I barely graduated I enlisted in the US Army rather than get drafted. This allowed me to select the training I would receive. Then, during basic, I was introduced to Sgt Best. He was a huge black man. He would chew his ever present cigar. He would get in my face and yell at me and spit cigar chunks on my glasses. That straightened my little white ass right up. US Army 1965-1970.
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      • Posted by JakeOrilley 3 months, 2 weeks ago
        Was in the late 60's, early 70's....I was too afraid to skip - the nuns would call my Mom before class started....and she would call my Dad - and there would be corporal punishment at three different places..... the school principals office, my Mom in the living room when I got home, and then the shed when Dad got home....
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        • Posted by DrZarkov 3 months, 2 weeks ago
          Born in 1944, I never skipped school, as my parents did a good job of selling the idea that education was important. As I got older, and some friends suggested skipping school, my dad's reminder played in my head: "Son, when you reach 18, you have choices: you can leave home and go to college, and we'll help you; you can leave home and go into the military, and we'll be proud of you; you can leave home and get a job, which I'll help you find; or you can just leave home. Note that none of these choices involve staying home!"
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    I believe that education of children is not a legitimate part of the proper function of government. Its proper function is to protect human individuals from force (including fraud and violence), and to punish same when it occurs. Also, education teaches thought processes, which should definitely not be turned over to the government.
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    • Posted by nonconformist 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      The proper function of government is to not exist. It is not legitimate to maintain by violence a monopoly on providing a protection service on some turf. It is also not legitimate to force someone to purchase a protection service. These activities are what the mob engages in. Punishment is not legitimate EVER. Punishment is what you do to slaves when they misbehave. The only legitimate retaliatory action in a free society may be forcing the repayment of damages and costs associated with a wrongful action.
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      • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 months, 2 weeks ago
        In a free (I mean really free) society, if a man commits (physical) assault on another man, the as-
        sailant should rightfully be punished physically.
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        • Posted by nonconformist 3 months, 2 weeks ago
          No. Punishment doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

          Punishment is when you inflict damage (at your own expense I might add) to retaliate against the infliction of damage.

          It is a lose-lose-lose proposition:
          1. The victim loses because they don't get paid back for the damage.
          2. The assailant loses but not as much as they should.
          3. The punisher spends valuable resources to apply the punishment (such as wasting money on a jail facilities, etc).

          This is the stupidest thing I have observed humans do.

          Why not make the assailant actually REPAY the damages AND costs of justice. Most of the time, this would be much worse for the assailant but it would also be fair for all parties involved. When I compare the loss to the offender that your punishments inflict, its is only a small part of what they should be be losing. However, in some cases it is the reverse. You are causing way more damage to the assailant than what they deserve to repay. So, your 'justice' system is all out of whack.

          I'll give you some examples.

          1. Person A kills person B that has a family with children. You put person A in jail where they waste their life doing busy work and nothing of any use, meanwhile, you spend other people's money on jailing person A (taxes) while person B's children and wife go hungry and suffer financially. Why don't you kill two birds with one stone and transfer the estate of person A to person B's family and put person A into a labor camp of sorts so that they work, earn a salary and have the remainder of that salary (after expenses) go towards repayment of the remaining debt person A has to person B's family? It is a win-win-win.

          2. Person A builds a black market website (silk road). You put person A in jail FOR LIFE!! What was the damage that they inflicted? Nothing. Only that they disobeyed made up laws illegitimately decreed by the state. Person A must be released immediately and be allowed to contribute to society as it is clear that they have great potential to do so. Punishing this person is actually a crime. You are stealing their life from them and you are depriving society of great deal of wealth that has the potential to be generated.
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  • Posted by term2 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    i have a novel solution. if children dont want to go to school, they shouldn't be shackled and tied to the desk, but allowed to learn how to live in the world in other ways. Let them see what its like to fend for themselves in the world. let them see how rough it will be to compete with others in life. After all, whats the purpose of learning if not to make an easier life for them. Take away the harsch reality of life without some sort of education whether book or street based, and you are taking away the reason for putting up with having to learn things.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    School? Who needs that? The government has got you covered with free stuff. The only thing you have to do is vote commie (D) to get all you need and then some. Well... maybe once in a while you'll be required to go on a looting and burning tantrum to keep the free stuff flowing - what fun! /s
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    Consequences? Last year I had a student that missed 120 days and still received credit and then he graduated. Today is the 5th day of this school year and I have a student who has already missed 3 days.

    I completely agree with your misgivings concerning this issue, but I see no solutions. Administration has no power, because this is all about the money. Yes, students in the seat equals money, so attendance is a big issue but if graduation rates fall, the money falls. Yes, the student should not receive credit if they miss too much school. What else can they do?

    School is an assembly line. New students are coming in every year and if the ones that should fail failed it would back things up to be worse than that old I Love Lucy candy line scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3axU...
    Of course they will never admit this but just think about it. A new class is coming every year. If we failed more than about 2% it makes the next year much worse and 2% isn't enough to make an impression on the students. I would estimate that over the last 5 years that I have taught that more than 30% should have failed. (mostly for attendance) Numbers like that would make the system collapse.

    Yes, if we were to clamp down and force the issue many would straighten up but...most of the offenders are minorities so you know what would be said. The whole system is racist or some other liberal BS. People would be fired and honestly most people (school staff) care more about paying their bills than the long term effects. So we go along to get along.

    The system is broken and I an insider do not believe that there is any real solution.
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    • Posted by 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      My daughter is also a teacher, so I can see your point. I think the parents are really the missing component here. If the school notified my parents that I was skipping school, there would be hell to pay at home.

      In most cases, the parents either don't care or blame the school. There seems to be a sub-culture of parenting that basically gives birth, then turns their backs.
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      • Posted by Eyecu2 3 months, 2 weeks ago
        I agree that poor parenting is a major concern but it is more than that. Society as a whole has abandoned the concepts of personal responsibility and shame. Nothing is shameful anymore. These student and parents can do literally anything and be proud of it. I have overheard conversations that would have caused utter disgust and shame from my peers when I was a child and they are proud of these things. More over they completely refuse to take responsibility for their actions. Then to aggravate the whole thing politicians at all levels answer to these parents via votes. So they pander to them and policies get adjusted such that teachers have less and less authority.

        Don't get me wrong I am part of the problem as well. I need a pay check so I rubber stamp these grades to ensure that I don't lose my job.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    I have two teenagers. Today I decided to treat myself to lunch after getting my haircut (I still have hair!). At the local town market center there's a bevy of nice eateries and a bar in the middle so I ordered a cuban sandwich and sat at the bar for my daily IPA. The bar tender was an absolutely lovely young latina. Real nice young lady. We chatted it up and she expressed how much she hated school. We talked all about the causes of this absenteeism. They treat the kids horribly. Zero consideration for the kids in public schools these days. There are a few good teachers and they are just hanging on by their fingernails. It's over. Public education has jumped the shark...And, everybody knows it.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    Public education in America today is shit. The End
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    • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      Just today?! It already seemed like that to me over
      50 years ago.
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      • Posted by term2 3 months, 2 weeks ago
        i thought it was a waste of my time when I was in government indoctrination centers. I am 79 now, and still learn from Utube, history channel, and podcasts. I made a nice life for myself and learned most of what I used to achieve that outside of formal schooling. People LEARN what they need, arent TAUGHT things government wants them to know
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    I went from a father who helped his 12yr old study for the SAT and pass it at 13 to go to University at 14.

    If my daughter were 12 today. I would 100% homeschool her. I would find (and work to create) Socializing opportunities. I would teach her about Mind, Body and Spirit. How to harmonize energy.
    I know how to teach her how to learn.
    I would enable her to go through AND COMPLETE various online courses.

    And I would have her volunteering to help others.

    But there is NEAR ZERO chance I would LET her go to a University in this day and age.

    The hard part is helping her find either the movers and shakers or the family oriented people.

    Because at some point... I have to PREPARE her to leave and be on her own. The last one is doing quite well... (And I admittedly may not have the skillset to help a fresh one as well as I helped the other one).
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  • Posted by ycandrea 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    And you think they learn those things in school now a days? If I had young children now I certainly would not allow them to step foot in a public school.
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    • Posted by 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      I agree there is probably a certain amount of indoctrination that occurs in any public school these days. Some schools and districts are much better than others, however.

      The other side of the issue is the basic concept of just learning to be where you need to be, on time and ready, whether that's school (for the children) or work (when those children grow up). These kids are being taught that 'it's ok' to be late or just skip a day.
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      • Posted by ycandrea 3 months, 2 weeks ago
        Parents, I believe, can teach their kids these things. We certainly do not need schools for this. At least not the schools of today.
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        • Posted by 3 months, 2 weeks ago
          I agree parents SHOULD teach these things. Unfortunately many parents are either poorly equipped or not inclined to teach them.

          A combination of private schools and home schooling would be a good option, but it still comes down to parents - either teaching the right things or sending them to a school that does.

          I'd like to think that all parents would do anything to do what's best for their children. Unfortunately I no longer believe that. I see too much evidence to the contrary.
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  • Posted by marktayloruk 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    I don't believe in homework.Even if I did-many posters here complain about the state of education so why get uptight about truancy? It surely depends on how they spend their time.
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    • Posted by term2 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      I have learned so much more from UTube and History Channel and Podcasts than I ever did in government indoctrination channels. I didn't like wasting time in school. I couldn't wait until school got out and I could get into the basement of my parents house and do science and electronic experiments on my own.
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