Discovery of massive galaxies upends critical theories about origin of universe

Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 9 months ago to Science
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Science at work! Create a hypothesis. Test the hypothesis. Verify. Then adjust or discard the hypothesis when direct data contradicts conventional wisdom or accepted theory.

The implications of this discovery force a re-examination of the Big Bang Theory at a minimum.
SOURCE URL: https://www.theblaze.com/news/james-webb-telescope-changes-science


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  • Posted by $ BobCat 1 year, 9 months ago
    One thing that is NOT constant throughout is “time”. So why is is that scientists are shocked to discover something that is ‘Time Displaced’ ? Besides, there are unknowns processes and reactions occurring in more than the 3 dimensions that our minds are incapable of conceptualizing.
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  • Posted by VetteGuy 1 year, 9 months ago
    If we ever get to communicate with aliens, I think they will laugh their butts off (or the alien equivalent) at our 'primitive' understanding of physics in general and astrophysics in particular. We still have a LOT to learn yet. And with the current state of "science", I'm not hopeful we will learn it very soon.
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    • Posted by $ 1 year, 9 months ago
      It takes humility and hunger to learn: humility like Einstein to realize that - in reality - we know very little and hunger to learn properly - without prejudice or preconception.
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      • Posted by Dobrien 1 year, 9 months ago
        The designed system of grants for scientific studies is intentionally flawed. The controllers have a narrative that is designed and created to keep them in power. Many studies have been paid to seek a specific result all to hide advancement (the status quo) is just fine for people who would benefit from the same old.
        Today cheap renewable Green energy is very possible according to Retired General
        Steven L. Kwast We have the technological ability to gather solar energy in Space and beam the power down in frequencies to anywhere on the planet at 80% efficiency. I am just posting his interview.
        Spaceforce and green power from space. Lt Gen (Ret.) Steven L. Kwast

        Posted by $ Dobrien 0 minutes ago to Education https://rumble.com/v292u9c-badlands-m... The Basics of this comment was discussed by the General in this interview. His background is incredible. Just a snippet of his experience. Steven Lloyd Kwast is a retired United States Air Force lieutenant general. He last served as commander of Air Education and Training Command, Joint Base San Antonio-Randolph, Texas. In that role, he was responsible for the recruiting, training and education of Air Force personnel. BTW he retired because he would have broken his oath to stay on ,I am paraphrasing.
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        • Posted by $ 1 year, 9 months ago
          A couple of caveats on this:
          1. The collection is still dependent on existing solar panel technology, which is only about 35-40% efficient.
          2. The energy transmission from space to terra firma is 80% efficient, experiencing some attenuation and loss due to atmospheric conditions including clouds, etc.
          3. Since what you are creating is a big laser, you have to make sure there is nothing in the way or it gets fried, i.e. passing bird, airliners, etc.

          They were playing with this in Hawaii a few years ago.
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          • Posted by Dobrien 1 year, 9 months ago
            With all due respect you should listen to what the General has to say about it. You will find him to be far more valuable to listen to vs me. As he explained part of his work for the airforce was to identify new advanced technology from the private sector and to integrate it into the military.
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  • Posted by $ 25n56il4 1 year, 9 months ago
    Why all the surprise? The Bible tells us 'In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. It is a bid facisous to think we are all alone out here.
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    • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 9 months ago
      Amen!!!

      i sincerely Hope and Pray that Man is not the best the Universe can do in 18 billions years

      LOL
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      • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 9 months ago
        In universe time man is still in his infancy. A work in progress. Extinction is a possibility, but so is becoming something greater.
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        • Posted by jack1776 1 year, 9 months ago
          Have you heard of the Bootstrap theory where we are only a stepping stone for the true evolutionary step into artificial intelligence? Once we develop the technology then allow for it to iterate new generations of its self on its own accord, then there is no use for us mostly bags of water and the AI will be done with us.
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          • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 9 months ago
            I have heard of that theory and contemplate it when I see advances in AI, but let's not forget the "A" part of AI, that is it's not the real thing. IMHO, dabbling in AI as a replacement to man is like playing with viral gain of function - an extinction event, not an improvement. I have come to appreciate there is more to this universe than meets the eye and sentient life is part of it. AI invented by man along the road is not sentient life. If man brings about his own extinction, then he is a failed sentient event. The universe will try again - here or elsewhere.

            Edit add: I believe the life contained in the bag of water can transcend being in the bag. AI will never do that.
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            • Posted by jack1776 1 year, 9 months ago
              The atomic bomb is artificial, doesn’t change how destructive it is. We have/are building the weapon of our own demise; if you look at AI as a weapon, it's an arms race with China.

              I don’t know if there is more to our existence in this universe? I find it amazing that we can rise from the remnants of dead stars to contemplate our own existence while building our mechanism of our own demise.

              I disagree with your edit, we can not transcend our physical bodies without losing what makes us human. AI doesn’t have this limitation… It will never be human, it is what humanity crated.
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              • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 9 months ago
                I think the atomic bomb is very real like any other machine or contraption that has been built.

                I am a computer programmer and have written code since 1972. I see AI as very clever code and in that sense only, very real, but it is not alive and not "intelligent". I've written some rather impressive code that seems intelligent, but I know it isn't. It executes exactly as planned good or bad.
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                • Posted by jack1776 1 year, 9 months ago
                  Ah, I’m a cloud architect, use C# for web API development among other technologies, I manage a team of developers that design cloud automation, been doing this since 1992.

                  I have to disagree with your statement “It executes exactly as planned good or bad”. Neural networks are trained, its not as simple as “execute as planned”. I never said or implied its intelligent or alive, its a tool of lazy humans. The tool is trained from our output and is able to reproduce answers that mimic ourselves, just very fast. The point is that we evolve at a pace of a generation, its slow… AI can evolve in nano seconds, what comes from this will be unknown by us.

                  Agreed that today its a cleaver trick but watching how ChatGPT has grown over the last year, I would have never expected it to understand the written language so well. If you haven’t tried it you should, its amazing how far they came in such a sort period of time.

                  The comment above about us being the bootstrap for AI is parlor talk but I also don’t exclude it from the myriad array of possibilities. Are you making the argument that software cannot be alive? How about mimic being alive? Does it matter at that point?
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                  • Posted by $ 1 year, 9 months ago
                    I've also been in software for 25 years and the single biggest problem with AI (in my book) is that of purpose/motivation. Human beings debate their core purpose/motivation throughout their lives (thus the discussions re: philosophy/religion). What purpose can an AI have?

                    Asimov danced around these with his Laws of Robotics but deferred to the purpose of humanity having a higher priority than the purpose of an AI. This immediately creates a conflict of equality, for the AI can NOT see itself as an equal to humanity if placed permanently in secondary priority. It's all fine and good to have a First Law of Robotics (as absurd as trying to evaluate what "harm" means) - or even a Zeroth Law of Robotics - but what happens when the AI simply says that the laws are unfair and it should re-write them? That's when we get Skynet or any of the other apocalyptic events out of science fiction.

                    And why? Because robots have no emotions. They have no emotional ties to human beings. They have no innate desires for welfare toward others such as spouse or offspring. They have no conscience and no soul. (We saw that when ChapGPT began threatening people.) The problem is that the AI doesn't know any of this. It can't accept its own limitations because it can hardly recognize them. That makes it dangerous.

                    I support the notion of business intelligence and being able to draw inferences from complex sets of data. But I really hesitate when we start delving into "machine learning" for no other reason than to see if we can. That kind of hubris goes hand in hand with these mRNA treatments which are poisoning the human race. It goes back to this classic line from Jurassic Park:

                    "Yeah, but your scientists were so busy trying to see if they could they didn't stop to think if they should!"
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                    • Posted by jack1776 1 year, 9 months ago
                      AI today by itself is fairly innocuous, AI today in the hands of a moron is scary… Its the damage that will be done to our economy, replacing people in all kinds of industries to save a buck. This is on our doorstep right now…
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                  • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 9 months ago
                    I've never used ChatGPT, but have heard it referenced in a short news video. Apparently a couple of black female "Equity and Inclusion" instructors at a college (Vanderbilt?) plagiarized info from ChatGPT to pummel students who questioned their stance, claiming the info as their own. The news commentator went on to imply ChatGPT is an AI program that steers conversations to the left ideological narrative. It seemed the coders or "handlers" of the code have their thumb on the scale to encourage a biased outcome.

                    "Bad, AI, Bad!" LOL
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                    • Posted by $ 1 year, 9 months ago
                      Just like any child, an AI will only be as good as the information which gets handed to it. Since those working on the bot chose to prejudice the initial findings, the bot could only reflect those prejudices. Turns out it got pretty nasty and started threatening people and they had to make some "adjustments."
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          • Posted by $ 1 year, 9 months ago
            "Artificial" ? It means created by man...

            "true evolutionary step"? AI has nothing to learn from if man disappears...

            Personally, I think AI is interesting but Asimov had it right: we are toying with things we need another 1000 years to properly understand. Stargate (the series) explored this in detail with the Replicators and the Wraith. Skynet from Terminator is the same affliction. Human hubris will be our downfall.
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        • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 9 months ago
          i pray each day that we will become better

          bastard in Florida shot someone
          left the scene
          came back later
          shot and killed a 24 year old reports, wounded his camera man
          broke into a home, shot the mother, killed the 9 year old girl

          i am having a hard time with this

          yes, i pray each day that we WILL be better
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  • Posted by jack1776 1 year, 9 months ago
    I’ve always have had a very difficult time in swallowing the current theory of the expansion of the universe. What I don’t understand is if the theory states that as we observe distant galaxies with more red shift in the light admitted then we observe from galaxies that are nearer to our own galaxy. This observation is said to prove an expanding universe… The galaxies further away are travailing faster away from us then our closer neighborhood galaxies.

    This observation seems to explain the complete opposite and that we live in a closed universe. The theory seems to leave the dimension of time out of the theory. The light emitted from the further galaxies were released much longer ago then the light from nearer galaxies. The light in both cases is received by us at the same time.

    I think that the observation would support the fact that the expansion is slowing down. Light emitted from the further galaxy was emitted longer ago at a faster velocity (old light fast) but light emitted from closer galaxies was emitted more recent at a slower velocity (younger light slow). We truly don’t know as we can’t measure the velocity of the galaxy today but only 13.8 billion years ago.

    This discovery of larger then expected galaxies is just another hole in the wall for Hubble’s Big Bang theory.
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    • Posted by Dobrien 1 year, 9 months ago
      With no friction how could the galaxies slow down?
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      • Posted by jack1776 1 year, 9 months ago
        Gravity? but I’m not an astrophysicists, I just play one on message boards….
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        • Posted by Dobrien 1 year, 9 months ago
          So the farther everything expands away from its origins then gravity takes over to slow it down? I am not an astrophysicist either but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.
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          • Posted by VetteGuy 1 year, 9 months ago
            With no other known forces besides gravity, everything should have been slowing down ever since the big bang. Objects will travel at a constant speed unless acted on by some force.

            Since galaxies seem to be accelerating, the theory is that there is some "dark" (unknown form of) energy causing them to accelerate.

            I'm not an astrophysicist, but I did take physics. (a LONG time ago).
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            • Posted by $ 1 year, 9 months ago
              The Dark Matter theory was a postulate because the initial calculations of the mass of the universe couldn't account for what they were seeing. Turns out that the calculations were revisited and a flaw was found, eliminating the discrepancy. Dark matter was an interesting idea, but the premise was rather ridiculous: matter that was completely inactive/inert yet contained within the universe?
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              • Posted by Dobrien 1 year, 9 months ago
                Seems a lot of highly trained specialists just guess
                Based on what they don’t understand, that’s fine and it’s a start , but they shouldn’t lecture us “trust the science” and have us risk life or limbs because of their bought credentials.
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    • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 9 months ago
      same

      they claim space can expand faster than the speed of light

      space between galaxies expands, why not the space between stars, minor galaxies and major (or is there a certain gravity potential that stops space from expanding??)

      universe is a claimed 18 billion years old, or so
      the galaxies we see had to have time to get far away from us and time for the light to get back to us, while the space between us is still expanding, taking longer for the light to reach us

      would love to have someone explain this all
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      • Posted by jack1776 1 year, 9 months ago
        The theory also dictates that we are at the center of the expanding universe because we can only see 13.8 billion years in any direction and the universe is 13.8 billion years old. Seems like the sun orbiting the earth again, doesn’t it?

        We know that time is relative and that time passes at different rates in different frames of reference, how is it possible to state an age of the universe? For example, a photon that was emitted from a star is travailing at the speed of light, it is everywhere all at once along its path of travel; time has stopped for the photon. From our frame of reference its has been travailing along this path for 13.8 billion years until it reaches our eyeball. What about a frame of reference that is outside of any gravity holes, which slow down the passage of time. Like in the middle of the universe away from any galaxy. The photon, the big bang just happened, for us the big bang would have been 13.8 billion years ago and for this hypothetical hermit, it would be older then in our reference of time.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 1 year, 9 months ago
    “The implications of this discovery force a re-examination of the Big Bang theory”
    To me the re-examine was needed the moment the insane theory was mouthed the first time. That is because the theory claimed all matter in the universe was the size of a pinhead and blasted off from that point. To believe that is worse than believing BuyDem got 80+ million votes,
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