OBJECTIVIST ANARCHISM
Posted by helidrvr 10 years, 3 months ago to Government
Objectivist Anarchism? If anything comes close to describing that idea, this has to be it. No semantics, just plain common sense. Maybe we can finally come together?
I'm not sure where a dualistic religion that briefly threatened Christianity and mathematical logics enters into a discussion or even thinking about the philosophy of Objectivism or the writings and art of the definer of that philosophy.
But, it remains that Anarchism takes the position that man will, given the freedom to do so, accept, live within, and flourish in a society that only has voluntary contact and trade between individuals and voluntarily will follow the nonaggression principle and that private property isn't necessary. A utopian dream, at best.
Objectivism, on the other hand, understands the reality that many individuals will not or cannot live rationally, accepting all other men's natural rights, particularly private property, and that the necessary evil of a societal or community enforcement mechanism must be and that it is by any other name or description, government. Though objectivist wish still for an absolute means to limit that government in perpetuity.
So I guess, that's my address to the idea of Objectivist Anarchism.
This is a complete fabrication, utter nonsense. Whole books have been written by leading proponents of the NAP in support of their conclusion that property is the cornerstone of social success. I for one am absolutely convinced that a society which does not recognize property rights is doomed to fail. Yet, in spite of my frequent declarations to that effect I find myself accused over and over of being "anti property". Why do I bother?
Even tolfa.us has an entire chapter on "Markets" and another on "Justice" which obviously presupposes trade in privately owned property and disputes arising from individuals' failure to adhere to the NAP.
So please, all of you who keep insisting that adherence to the NAP implies a rejection of property, quit that silly lie.
You've stated in various posts that you don't agree with patents and patent enforcement, so how can you then claim support of private property? Remember that a title or deed to real property is no different than is a patent, except for longevity. I own myself including my mind as well as what my mind produces. No one else has any right to just use any of that or take it as their own.
Butler Shaffer has written a fascinating 325 page book on the subject - "Boundaries of Order: Private Property as a Social System".
You can find it here: http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Order-P...
If that is too much for you, then the TOFLA course devotes an entire chapter to Free Market Justice, i.e. non-coercive contract enforcement.
It is available here: http://tolfa.us/L6.htm
And what is your response when presented with some seriously hard factual evidence to refute your rediculous claims about anarchism and private property? Thoroughly study it and maybe learn something? Nooo, not you. You don't need to read no 325 page book. No, you have an OPINION. And that is far more valid than mere facts.
So you'll stand by your opinion. Facts be damned.
Well, I hate break this to you, but opinions require no proof and therefore are cheap and in limitless supply. Careful my hero. You may find yourself standing all alone one day, just you and your opinion.
"some seriously hard factual evidence to refute your ridiculous claims". Still waiting to see some, rather than simply referring me to some book. That's like referring me to the Bible which I'm not going to waste my time reading either. Explain the factual evidence to me and demonstrate how it works in a logically rational manner and I might give it some attention.
"Facts be damned". Once again, I can't find any facts in any of your comments, just references to a book or so and some online propaganda nonsense.
As to opinions, an objectivist's opinions are generally based on knowledge and facts known to date but need some additional knowledge or facts to fully develop from an opinion to an acknowledged reality. And, yes, I may well find myself standing all alone one day. It won't be the first time, but then I'm not much on caring for the accolades or agreements of others to give me my sense of worth or accomplishment.
Other than that, I think the old adage applies here that 'It's often better to be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.' If you're only response to others that you disagree with is ad hominem personal attacks rather than facts, you so arrogantly claim, yet fail to elucidate, you simply demonstrate you're sophomoric level of knowledge when discussing things with serious men of the mind.
In the meantime, go back to your coloring books and devise another anarchist fantasy world in which your intellect matches your ego.
If you said this nicer you'd have a better chance of being understood.
You want to claim the intellectual high ground on the meaning of Freedom? Knock yourself out. For my part I just want to be successful at being free. So when I look at an idea, I am not interested in proving how wrong it is. I read everything with one purpose in mind - to glean from it what can help me in that quest.
Don't worry about being right about Freedom. Worry about being successful at Freedom, whatever it takes.
Anarchism teaches me that I do NOT have to obey any self-appointed ruler(s).
For myself," proving their particular interpretation of "Freedom" to be the one that trumps every one else's..."
its about property rights. I do care who "wins" these arguments, because "losing" may mean I lose rights. Supporting anarchism is a threat to my property rights.
For those who interpret human relations in terms of dominance and submission (alpha leaders, beta followers), capitalism and socialism are both dominance-submission structures. You might disagree with the premise; maybe you explain dominance and submission - titles, handshaking, modes of introduction, the McDonald's order counter as a control structure demanding obedience - in some other broader system.
Anarchist Bob Black - Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Black - asserts in THE ABOLITION OF WORK that both capitalism and socialism are all about where you work and for whom you work. No one gets to enjoy life, unless you enjoy working for other people. I mention that just to point out that there are many ways to order the facts of society. So, if you want anarchy to be a kind of government, then you need to be explicit when you discuss these topics lest other people be left uncertain about your intentions.
We're waiting on critiquing this. Tom Woods, all reasonable sounding interviewing Stephan Kinsella-a dangerous thinker. all that open source for stone axes. cannot wait.
hey on another topic, can people mint their own gold coins? Obviously not as currency, but numbered and limited?
Maybe it helps to think in terms of homesteading. You simply can't in nature come up with a legitimate way to homestead thought. This is just a matter of practical reality.
In the mean time, patent trolling has reached epidemic proportions.
http://blog.independent.org/2014/08/19/p...
I don't know why you got voted down on an old topic discussion. We go through this often here. But neither am I going to rescue it. The problem with these anarcho-whatevers is that they are mired in rationalism, i.e., theoretical suppositions lacking in evidence. Suppose I said that the world should be run by libraries; librarians should be world governors. I can cite all the positives about libraries, but then admit that nowhere in the world was this ever done; but I can point to the lawful and orderly business in libraries and bookstores; and suggest that it might work... Or maybe the world should be run by pastry chefs. Who could refuse a nice cheesecake? ...
When they do have "evidence" it is always some esoteric time and place; and always a narrow window at that, i.e., a failure mode. From that article above:
"With that out of the way…I have written about anarchic – or at least vastly decentralized – societies that have existed in our past. Two such examples include the highland people of Southeast Asia and much of the European Middle Ages (here and here). These examples are found, obviously, in a much simpler time and place – not in anything resembling a complex division-of-labor society. In other words, while the “laws” might have been friendlier to my anarchic way of thinking, the successful application within a more complex society and global economy is, at minimum, in question."
That said, the fact is that we really do have such social structures here and now. We have them in exactly the areas needed, and claimed, by the anarcho-wishers: private security; and private adjudication. The two largest security firms, Securitas of Stockholm, and G4S of London, have rosters the size of the armies of France and Germany, both competing in about 30 nations. But unlike France and Germany. few private firms fire on each other. It is a matter of culture, which is the basis for law. In Africa private armies have and do carry out horrific wars. In Europe, not so much...
Similarly, adjudication, arbitration, and negotiation, are services commonly offered by law firms. Every anarcho-person must know the fine history of the American Arbitration Association. Read your own contracts for credit cards, or home loans, or even employment. You probably have several arbitration agreements in force right now.
Moreover, private law is successful: the Uniform Commercial Code was created whole by a self-appointed committee of jurists.
The anarcho-crowd never addresses these facts, either the actual reality of the structures they claim are "possible" (someday) or their very real _failures_ here and now. Failures, really, because the UCC seems not to apply to ISIS.
Some anarcho-utopians bashfully admit that for their system to work, the whole world (or much of it) would need to be committed to their Non Initiation of Force (NIOF) principle; and antecedent to that would be a commitment to reason and rights. Others assert that left to itself, the free market would impel toward peace, as it does toward prosperity. People would be economically rewarded and punished for rational behavior. It has never worked in the past; and it seems not to be working now. Every nation in the world has a glorious-sounding constitution. Few actually have rights by our standard. Even we are losing ours. The lootiing in Ferguson, Missouri, and the looting by police officers in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, pretty much argue against the claim that external incentives shape human behavior. The door to motivation swings open from the inside.
We all honor ancient Athens as "the school of Hellas" even though they exiled Anaxagoras, tried Aspasia, and arranged the death of Socrates. We all honor the Renaissance in which glorious individualism was celebrated in wonderful new art for churches (even Protestants) that taught original sin as an unquestionable doctrine. Every radical in America puts their roots in the Revolution; except, maybe, those who were counted as 3/5 of a person. Perfection is always so hard to achieve...
Robert V. Hine's _California's Utopian Colonies_ tells of the failures of people who were highly motivated to succeed in a land that was arable, habitable, and hospitable.
The warning here, however, also applies to the Gulchers who think that they actually will live well, long, and happy with 50 of their ideologically pure comrades.