

- Hot
- New
- Categories...
- Producer's Lounge
- Producer's Vault
- The Gulch: Live! (New)
- Ask the Gulch!
- Going Galt
- Books
- Business
- Classifieds
- Culture
- Economics
- Education
- Entertainment
- Government
- History
- Humor
- Legislation
- Movies
- News
- Philosophy
- Pics
- Politics
- Science
- Technology
- Video
- The Gulch: Best of
- The Gulch: Bugs
- The Gulch: Feature Requests
- The Gulch: Featured Producers
- The Gulch: General
- The Gulch: Introductions
- The Gulch: Local
- The Gulch: Promotions
- Marketplace
- Members
- Store
- More...
Nadler was caught flat footed. Owens never said the word "stupid".
Doesn't Nadler strike you like someone with chronic diarrhea? His long lined face and pale complexion belong to the hospital ward.
I am glad Owens is fully equipped to defend herself against the slimy mod. They'd take her apart if they were able.
It's a typical Democrap tactic to try and slime all over people who tell the truth.
Congress badly needs people with brains and the ability to use it.
That was the part that stood out to me - his reaction to her assertion he wasn’t listening.
This is the only way to defeat these people.
According to the democrats, anyone who loves America is a nationalist.
I say. God Bless America
No one will argue this kid is “intelligent”. Sources are not required.
Separately, IQ testing is a poor measure on its own. That is just a Google away. It isn’t new news. Faith won’t help.
When you use IQ for a great many things, such as how good of a bus driver or doctor someone might be, it is a poor tool. However it is a leading predictor for many other useful things such as overall success as people mature. But like many things it isn’t a singular factor in isolation. You can have the highest IQ in existence and get nowhere without a drive to succeed. Imagine if Einstein never wrote down and shared what he thought about. Or Bohr, Curie, Ada, or von Braun. Take away their IQ and we’d never have heard of them either.
Despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth by SJW ideologues and collectivists of any stripe for what it was designed for there is no psychometric more objectively accurate than IQ. We don’t call a diesel pickup a “poor sports car” - that isn’t what it is made to be. Yet we bash on IQ for not being everything.
This discussion is about "faith" not IQ.
There are plenty of examples of under performing people with high IQs, under performing not only from work ethic or discipline, but reasoning. BTW there is no evidence Einstein ever took an IQ test. It was just estimated.
I was tested very high IQ in elementary school, and put into a "Gifted Students Program". (probably never see one of those again so we don't make other kids feel bad). I took the Mensa test in 2009 and got an almost perfect score. Wish that percentage equated to my income, but it is not contrary to it. If you like the measure, I accept the compliment.
My assertion stands: IQ or intelligence does not exist at birth, just capability. Neither does physical prowess. Faith in the unknowable and untestable is certainly one's right, but completely inappropriate for legislation, and a good reason to do nothing, since it it orthogonal to reason.
Your assertion does not stand. It withers under nearly a century of research where we've been verifying via testing that infants have intelligence. We currently have two primary test methods: visual and sensorimotor. Of the two the visual based has been shown to be more accurate. We've had it reliable be shown a strong predictor of not just performance later in life but actual IQ test performance. And I'm not referring to general statistics here, but multi-decade longitudinal study where the tests were given to infants as young as 5 months old and those exact infants were tracked throughout their scholastic life and into their early twenties and IQ tests administered.
The visual based tests are quite predictive but due to mechanics and our own limitations more difficult to do at earlier ages. At earlier ages we hav to use the slightly less consistent but still "moderately" predictive sensorimotor based tests we've had since at least the 1920s. While,less consistent and predictive, they are still predictive. This means they predict accurately more often than they do not.
If your assertion were true then we would not be able to have predictive tests at all for infants. Sensorimotor based intelligence testing has been shown to be predictive to inside of three months. While it may be hypothetically possible that infants somehow develop an intelligence between birth and three months of age, there is no evidence to suggest that is the case. Instead what we have in actual science, and scientific history, is a trend of creating better tests that reveal the intelligence at earlier and earlier ages.
You assertion is the article of faith here, not that we have an innate intelligence. We also have decades of research that indicates we have a genetic base of an upper bounds on an individual's IQ that is lowered, but not increased, by environmental factors such as cultural and nutritional. A key thing to note about this research is that there is no disagreement among the researchers that there is an innate maximum intelligence level determined by genetics - the questions are around how to more accurately measure it and what stunts it, then how to use that information to prevent that stunting.
It is difficult to overstate how strong our actual IQ testing is - though many completely fail to understand what IQ actually is. Having a high IQ is never something I’ve accepted as a compliment because I didn’t do it. I find the idea to have no more merit than complimenting someone on their height, eye color, or the color of their skin. Which is, to say, no merit. Despite nearly a century of trying we’ve found no means by which you can increase your IQ. None. On the other hand, let us look at IQ. To keep the math simple lets look at the original formulation:
IQ = 100 x (mental age/chronological age)
Mental age is determined by testing problem solving. The typical example is that you take a ten year old and have them solve problems. If they solve problems at a twelve year old level their mental age is 12. Plug that into the formula and they’d have an IQ of 120. However, IQ is - as one can clearly see - relative. Even under the newer, more accurate, formula it is relative to your age range. This is another reason that IQ testing in youth isn’t a standalone. Take that ten year old in the example. He or she may simply be ahead of the curve at that point, but that doesn’t mean he or she continues to be. In two years if you repeat the test that kid may be average because they are still solving problems at the twelve year old level. However, that doesn’t mean there isn’t something more important in IQ. Let us take your example of Einstein. True, we have no actual test records for him. However, we can reasonably estimate it based on the combination of his work and the fact that we do have tests for "modern peers”.
We can do so because no eminent physicist, chemist, astrophysicist, etc. has produced even a tenth of Einstein’s output with an IQ of, say, 80. None. Dr. Feynman, one of the preeminent scientists of our time (some may recall the Challenger O-ring problem - that was him doing the demo for Congress) had an IQ of 125 - and no I’m not joking this is the figure he himself gave. The lower bounds on physicists of note in the modern era with known test results is slightly above 115, and for minor noteworthiness 110. There are none below 110. None. The sad thing about general discussion about Feynman’s IQ is that people try to claim, ignorantly and wishfully, that 125 is “average” when it is not. Then again, once you reach a certain age your IQ becomes more difficult to measure because IQ tests were developed specifically for children. There is far more agreement on our ability to measure general intelligence in children than in adults. If you remember and understand what an IQ test does and that it is _by design* a relative measure, that makes sense. This is exacerbated by the effects of low IQ. Someone with a low IQ, such as 80 or less, isn’t winning Nobel prizes (the separate “Peace Prize” notwithstanding). Their IQ is low enough that it has meaningful impact on the rest of their lives. The more technological our basic society becomes the more this will matter.
However, above a general level of around 85 or above (on any of the various actual IQ tests) it becomes less meaningful, and the higher up the scale one is the less meaningful it is. This is because IQ is not, and can not be, designed for that end of the scale but for identifying those at the bottom - or at risk for being there when used longitudinally.
By contrast, consider height in the NBA. The average player is 6’7” and it is a tight range. Height is obviously a significant factor in playing basketball at the higher competitive levels. Sure, shorter people such as 6’2” can be successful and I’m sure we’d agree that a 5’3” person can play the game. But can they rise to the ranks of notable in the real of professional basketball? Yes. The shortest player to have achieved that level of success was 5’3”. Curiously, 5’3” is 80% of 6’7”. Interestingly, 100 is 80% of 125. Anyway, if I gave you stats on an NBA player and asked you to estimate height, and we had an “HQ”, or Height Quotient, you’d be able to roughly estimate their height based on that ratios and testing and you would conclude with a high degree of certainty that the player was not 4’7”. But even then you’d be less accurate than doing the same with IQ. Why? Because a 6’ human can improve their basketball skills, but even a human with 130 IQ can’t improve their intelligence. We can improve our knowledge, but not our intelligence.
And as to this being a discussion about “faith”, no. You don’t get to spend the entire post talking about intelligence and making baseless assertions about it, then mention faith in, literally, the last three words of the post and claim it is about faith rather than intelligence and expect that to withstand scrutiny. To that end, any decently trained psychologist could test your mythical wild-born child and argue he or she was intelligent. We can test infants, but not some “wild born” child? We can test and measure the IQ of people born deaf and the lacking auditory understanding, but not a “wild” born child because he or she has had no formal education? Preposterous. Education isn’t intelligence, but rather something requiring intelligence. To claim that infants don’t have intelligence, and that “nobody" would argue a wild, uneducated child has no intelligence despite a century of research indicating quite clearly the opposite is an expression of faith at best. Too claim that you can’t test an uneducated child for IQ, a test designed specifically to test the uneducated, is absurd. To then also claim you don’t need to back such a claim up in any way only further removes it from the realm of reasoning.
edit: ugh markdown reformatting
If the right genetic material is not present then the environment and training can not produce high intelligence, but even with good inheritance there has to be material support for intelligence to develop.
Ok I am not up-to-date in this but I am skeptical about IQ tests on babies and toddlers. It may be claimed that these are predictors, but parents who have these tests done will be the kind to provide good living conditions and mental stimulation and they will want to see their own children do well. That there is a market for predictive tests does not mean that the tests actually do predict well, it is just meeting the desire for a product - marketing.
Likewise, there are IQ enhancing training programs, are they more than marketing?
But, there are many examples of poor mental functioning in children and adults due to malnutrition and injury, obviously these are not controlled tests.
For sure, intelligence is not well understood. Charles Binet, the inventor of the IQ concept said, IQ is what IQ tests measure, this is still the best definition.
It may be claimed that these are predictors, but parents who have these tests done will be the kind to provide good living conditions and mental stimulation and they will want to see their own children do well.“
If it were a commercial attempt I’d be inclined to agree. However, these were actual research projects, and the intent as stated by the authors was to identify those who had higher results but were specifically not advantaged by way of wealth. We aren’t talking about rich parents paying for this, and certainly not a market driven study.
“Likewise, there are IQ enhancing training programs, are they more than marketing? “
Nope, just marketing. There has been no research showing one can increase one’s IQ. At best these programs will slightly and temporarily increase performance on selected non-IQ tests - usually some form of memory test. Occasionally they’ll prevent a study into saying what they want. In those cases it is usually where the study took people who had injuries or illnesses and taught them how to be better. That isn’t raising your IQ. Then they play clever with their wording, just as supplement providers do. They know if they make a medical claim they’ll have hell to pay. So they use phrases such as “supports an increase”. But don’t be fooled: no proper study has ever found a means to increase your intelligence. By proper I mean at minimum fully published and replicated. You don’t get to remove added weight from a car and claim you made the engine put out more power just because it accelerates quicker.
Ok, educate me. Your overwhelmingly long note is just more assertions. Send me a peer-reviewed paper showing the correlation of baby IQ to adult correlation. I think it is bunk. Sure, facts are not IQ, but if one doesn't exercise one's mind and learn to reason, one will not impress anyone including an IQ test.
Here is a paper suggesting the most genetics correlate to about 50%. https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits...
Here is an article (not peer reviewed, but describing considerable evidence that you can train your mind to think better, just like muscles) https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...
That took me about 5 seconds. Over to you.
As to your inability or refusal to go prove yourself wrong, I don’t know what journalism archives you have access to. So I’ll just post one link that I know is open to the public: http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~rakison/fagan.... There are plenty of references and citations for you to go explore and educate yourself with.
As for the rest of the post, if I had a car that had 800 pounds of lead bars in the trunk, would you claim that if I removed that weight then I would have increased the horsepower of the car? I’d imagine not. There is a massive difference between taking someone who is autistic and making them better, and taking someone who does not have that problem and making them actually more intelligent. Maybe you should spend more than five seconds trying to support an argument you don’t understand, and instead spend that time trying to prove yourself wrong. You’ll find far more useful
Information that way, and it’ll serve to counter confirmation bias. But you’ll have to read far more “overly long” texts of much more dense material than I’ve posted. Are you up to it?
Also if you spend more than five seconds reading your first link you’ll learn that not only is it not a peer reviewed paper, it isn’t even a paper; it is, by the text on the page, a “news release”. You’re asking me to post peer reviewed literature and you provide nothing of the sort. You’re making an assertion that intelligence doesn’t exist in infants or at birth. You’ve provided absolutely nothing to support your faith in such a notion. How about we go fair dinkum here: you post a peer reviewed paper showing babies have no intelligence. No rush, feel free to take time to find one as well as explore the link I’ve provided and it citations and references. That’ll take some time to truly understand.
And no worries on finding one with a public link. I have access to most scientific journals. But please do more than judge one based off of the synopsis. No more press releases and guest blogger posts that don’t even show what you claim they do.
No, I wound't say a car with 800 lbs less had more horsepower, and I wouldn't argue a point like this with a fallacious analogy.
Yes, I watched Feynman when it happened, and my brother is the chief mechanical engineer at NASA KSC (must be good genetics). That event was a circus, and Feynman played ringmaster, and unfortunate clown show for the end of a genius career, not far from touring with bongos, which he also did with his buddy.
+1
Newsweek's click-bait tweet: "Donald Trump Jr. praises Candace Owens for her defense of Hitler comments"
Actually Newsweek headline: "Donald Trump Jr. praises Candace Owens for her defense of Hitler comments after Ted Lieu airs clip in Congress."
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump...
Candace Owens on Her Journey From Left to Right
https://youtu.be/BSAoitd1BTQ
posted by $ Dobrien 8 months ago to Philosophy
10
Candace Owens Thinks. Her great choice.
Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 1 week ago to Culture
28 comments | Share | Edit | Delete
https://youtu.be/OYTBiwaRIkk
walkaway
Candace Owens is a role model.
The more I listen to this woman
The more impressed I am with her .
Just tremendous
5 comments | Share | Edit | Delete
She really seems to have no racism about her; (or "reverse racism" either). Man, she really knew how to put political hypocrites down!
As a white raised in rural Virginia in the '50's and '60's, I could have sympathized with her acknowledging having been a victim then. The blacks really were victims of racism and injustice. But she is younger than I, and things have changed since then.
Long may she live to continue pointing out the truth!
I replied to that as well.