To Be Or....What?
I was recently hospitalized with a near death situation. There's nothing like almost dying in order for one to confront one's own mortality. As an atheist in good standing, it caused me to do a lot of metaphysical thinking. It seems that the more we learn about the universe, the more we don't know. What happens after death? What is consciousness? Does it continue to exist somehow after 'shuffling off this mortal coil?" Does it have anything to do with dark energy or dark matter? We know they exist even though we can't detect them but we build a device 2 miles underground in order to detect neutrinos which would give i=us proof of dark matter. The same with consciousness in that we know it exists but have no concrete evidence. The subject is so ephemeral that we rarely discuss it in this forum. Perhaps because we are afraid to be scorned for delving into a subject so close to mysticism. I think it may be a subject worthy of our attention. There's an awful lot of big brains lurking in the gulch. What is death? What is consciousness? When "life" ends is it the same as turning off a light swith. I'm quite sure that there's not a Michaelangelo type fiure with a white flowing beard in white flowing robes playing with the universe like we would a bacteria colony. And, just what is real anyway?Help elucidate me.
I am very glad it was a "near death " and that you have recovered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfW4k...
Don't worry about the Birds your given...they are just showing you that their "Bow Fingers" are still working.
I guess they thought you were trying to prevent them from defending themselves with that question.
Well...let us look at this differently...This is just a thought, a theory based on what was passed on to us...doesn't make it definitive...none of us knows for sure either way.
The 500 or so that witnessed the return of Jesus relay to us that he stated; (paraphrased) that his experience was a good one, he felt no pain, the unhappiness was gone. They also relayed to us that his wounds were still visible, where he was nailed, where he was whipped and where the Romans stabbed him to make sure he was dead.
If we had to come up with a scenario of how this could be, I would offer that his return would have been Holographic in nature, a hologram with solidity and for that to be, there would have to be something left or recorded as his physical self.
Maybe a quantum representation, one that holds that which is the you we know and love.
There was the account of the bright beam of light that bust open the heavy cave door and illuminated the inside of the cave and when it stopped, the only thing left was the Shroud; which has shown us a 3D image of the person whom was wrapped within it.
So a holographic image would certainly explain what they saw, what he felt or didn't feel and also that there would have to be something of his physical self still around...even if it was his DNA which some claim is holographic in nature.
For an image, a holographic reflection is only a electrical/magnetic or digital reflection of the "Real Thing"...
Have seen documentaries and a movie, The Case for Christ, (I think) that gave all the documenting evidence and comments and references by rulers of different city states, Rome and Egypt etc.
Maybe we will find out. Maybe we won't.
Oxygen is definitely not unlikely, being the most common element of the Earth's crust at about 46%. Oxygen is the most common element in the Universe after hydrogen and helium.
I just turned 79 and living on due to evidence based medicine with stents and drugs. I do not waste time trying to understand death other than the loss of complex organizations in my body and that that 'my', self, no longer exists with the death of my body, even just the death of my brain.
My main concern with death is to find good homes for all my books and stuff. I, for selfish reasons, do not it all to go to a landfill. Also my wishes for the discarding of my corpse, only a matter that a self could worry about, just cremate it and discard the ashes with no celebration or mumble jumble prayers, not any remembrance.
As for the death of the consciousness, it is not even like going to sleep, it just no longer exists. There is nothing to be afraid of from the none existent.
Just hang in there as long as you still can enjoy life, even though at a lesser enjoyment if that is all one has.
I hope that rant was somewhat understandable.
Since I do not see any sense in prayer, I will just hope you can live more years of a comfortable conscious life.
of all the "Woulda, shoulda, couldas" involved.Remember "The butterfly effect."
It would be better to use the example of what would happen if slavery had not taken place to the extent that it did. Few if any of today's people would ever have been born since nearly all the future of that time would be different where nearly any ova would be fertilized by the same sperms, if they even existed to produce today's humans. Just one reason that, even though slavery was evil, that one should recognize that one would not exist today. That is why those who want reparations for what happened to their ancestors are really asking for reparations for their having been born and in a way wishing never to have been born.
Personally I think that our brains are similar too computers. Pull the plug and it turns off. Leave our brain cells without oxyen for enough time and the non volatile ram in our brains is gone also. Once dead, thats IT forever.
Consciousness if interesting. Given anesthesia, I dont remember a thing about what happened. Going to sleep is a similar experience. I think when you die, the lights just go out and thats that.
It would be nice if we all just went to another utopian place after we die, but I just dont think thats what happens. No one ever comes back, and if you are catholic you might be sent to a really BAD place after you die. I conclude that there is no place we go to when dead. We are just like a computer thats had its plug pulled out...
There are technical issues in that a brain is also used to sensory inputs and motor outputs, so one would have to duplicate the input nerves and motor nerves in order to get much use from the replacement brain.
Very cool to actually do this, and someday it might happen...
Later on, a month of so later, I began to wonder, as best I can express in words, where would I be had I not been born. I was absolutely certain "I" would exist somewhere in some way, even though I would not have had a body. It was a very real and life changing experience for a 9 or 10 year old.
Later, in my twenties, I explored alternate realms of consciousness (yes, psychedelics were one way to access that sort of thing, but not the only way), and came away with the certain knowledge that our ordinary consciousness is but a small part of "reality", however that may be defined.
As I approach my 76th birthday, these questions have deeper meanings to me. And I still don't "know" but I definitely "wonder" more.
Sorry, that was more than you wanted.j
I've also noticed that when I hit "reply," this forum software doesn't always position the comment where I thought it would be!
All my sessions were attended by professionals in the field, and so I did not have to worry about things that others did who mis-used it/them, in more open and uncontrolled settings. Later on, I was able to administer my own, and in very few words, my experiences were very transforming at the most, and quite penetrating at the least.
I saw aspects of my behavior and life in ways that I had not before, and while not always pleasant (some were stark terror, in fact), I was able to work through those experiences and learn a great deal from them.
I found them a great tool for learning very deeply about any issues or problems I had with my life, could see other people differently and more benignly, and my experiences ranged from the aforementioned terror to extreme bliss and satisfaction.
In a phrase, I learned, not always pleasantly, to take responsibility for my life and for my experiences, whatever they were, and to integrate them into my life so that I came out more satisfied, more appreciative, more loving, more kind, and more aware.
And I have the ability to move between those spaces and less pleasant spaces, and be in control of my experience, rather than let it control me.
Another phrase that I would use is: I learned to take responsibility for my life and for my experience.
This was a time when I had credentials of two masters degrees in engineering, had served as a naval officer during Vietnam (never at that location), had a quite responsible job in Silicon Valley before it was known as such.
One final thought: Many of the ideas that came out of Silicon Valley were hatched during or after hallucinogenic trips.
I consider psychedelics a great tool when handled knowingly and responsibly. I do not think I would be alive today were in not for those experiences. I am 75.
To answer the question that started this rambling of mine, I never did learn the answer to "where would I be had I not been born" because it is unimportant to me know. I know that I exist, and that is good enough.
By the way, my associates in these experiences jokingly called flashbacks (which no one ever experienced other than as memories, "free lunches." :-)
I wish that some bright person would get on with the answers. This is one dead-end that really needs answering.
If the value of a question is whether the need for knowledge has anything to do with living on the Earth, then I would put a very low value on a great many questions, including that one.
Inferring what happened too far way for light to have reached us to make it directly observable is the same principle as everything else in physics that requires inference of theoretical entities not directly observable. Our conceptual consciousness makes such inferences possible.
Observation creating reality is a favored "interpretation" but most physicists go about their work without regard to that.
You can imagine many very different scenarios.I have a couple of favorites.
One hundred years from now-- who knows?
Glad you didn't find out this time, Herb!
But, what if congratulations are not due?. What if it's really a "better place?" Consciousness without the burden of a body to maintain. How would it manage without senses? Humans are very mysterious creatures indeed. Wait. It just occurred to me. if death is like a dream state, that means you are creating your own universe nanosecond to nanosecond Now I wonder, whose dream am I a part of? Mine? Adams? Pardon me while I go lie down.
And to give my take on your question: if it is a better place, it'll wait. I'll agree - it's pretty much ALL a mystery.
I wake up every morning and say, "Hey, I'm still here".
That is the question..imagine Stallone reciting it:
"To be, or what?"
Socrates came to the same conclusion 2,500 years ago by stating "The more I know the less I know."
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing"
It is not mysticism: it is simply that we have no knowledge beyond death.
However, there is vast literature about our connection to the universe and the universal. That may be a worthy subject for exploration.