CONSEQUENCES
Currently, the Left is increasingly calling for the use of force rather than negotiation. In a recent post in The Gulch, I illustrated how the forfeiture law led to violence regarding the Branch Davidian cult in Waco. The leader, David Koresh regularly left the compound and could have been arrested in the conventional manner,but by that time, the rhetoric had become quite heated. Following the federal assault, members were found to have been armed but only half as heavily as as the Texas population in general. It is also true that before the assault claims of child abuse were found to be baseless.It is speculation that the government hoped to use the Davidians as a test case to apply asset-forfeiture
laws to religious groups
The Davidians were peculiar and in some cases, their beliefs were downright repulsive. But, I fail to see why their beliefs were all that was required to justify targeting them.This type of criminal behavior by government agencies are spawned by the incitement to the use of force .in the form of paramilitary assaults against private citizens is not fiction, but a reality.
Another real-life event, that of Randy and Vicky Weaver with son Sammy moved to an isolated twenty acre property in Idaho to escape the rat race and to practice a loosely held belief in white separatism. As separatists they believe that all races should live apart. Similar beliefs are held by by some black religious cults as well. Though it is my belief that that people of such narrow views are woefully ignorant, the Constitution gives them the right to live separately if they so desire and obey the law.,
The ATF and FBI mistakenly concluded (for reasons still unclear) that Mr. Weaver was improperly informed, yet when he was not in court at the designated time, the court ordered him to be arrested and the federal agents laid siege to the Weaver property. He was wrongly indicted as a White supremacist and in August of 1992 federal agents armed with M16machine guns shot and returned fire killing 14 year old Sammy Weaver. In July of 1993an Idaho jury found Mr. Weaver innocent of murder of a U.S. Marshall. It found that you cannot kill a person just because you wear a badge.
laws to religious groups
The Davidians were peculiar and in some cases, their beliefs were downright repulsive. But, I fail to see why their beliefs were all that was required to justify targeting them.This type of criminal behavior by government agencies are spawned by the incitement to the use of force .in the form of paramilitary assaults against private citizens is not fiction, but a reality.
Another real-life event, that of Randy and Vicky Weaver with son Sammy moved to an isolated twenty acre property in Idaho to escape the rat race and to practice a loosely held belief in white separatism. As separatists they believe that all races should live apart. Similar beliefs are held by by some black religious cults as well. Though it is my belief that that people of such narrow views are woefully ignorant, the Constitution gives them the right to live separately if they so desire and obey the law.,
The ATF and FBI mistakenly concluded (for reasons still unclear) that Mr. Weaver was improperly informed, yet when he was not in court at the designated time, the court ordered him to be arrested and the federal agents laid siege to the Weaver property. He was wrongly indicted as a White supremacist and in August of 1992 federal agents armed with M16machine guns shot and returned fire killing 14 year old Sammy Weaver. In July of 1993an Idaho jury found Mr. Weaver innocent of murder of a U.S. Marshall. It found that you cannot kill a person just because you wear a badge.
Gun rights advocates, anti-government libertarians, and members of what would soon become the militia movement refused to let Waco go, seeing it as the sinister escalation of an increasingly aggressive war by the government against its own people. In self-produced documentaries like Day 51 and Waco: The Big Lie, Waco buffs made a series of startling assertions: The FBI tanks had used flamethrowers to deliberately burn down the Branch Davidians’ building. FBI snipers had fatally shot some thirty sect members as they tried to escape. Three of the four ATF agents who died in the initial raid had been killed not by Branch Davidians but by their fellow agents because, as Waco: The Big Lie implies, they had previously served on Bill Clinton’s security detail and knew too much.
The gunfire exchange started when an agent shot and killed Sammy Weaver's dog, and Sammy returned fire, wounding the agent. You forgot to mention that Vicky Weaver was also killed by an FBI sniper.
The really sad part of this is that the 1995 bombing of the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City was inspired by the out of control actions by federal law enforcement in the Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents.
If there was any justice, the FBI and the BATF would have been disbanded after that incident. They committed murder without punishment.
Instead they were emboldened to act in the same vein at Waco and burned nearly 100 innocent people alive.
Janet Reno and Bill Clinton should have been burned alive on the White House lawn since they at the time they claimed to "Take Full Responsibility." Murdering Scum.
That would have saved all the lives in Oklahoma City and Hitlery would have never had the power to be the traitor she has become.
Nothing has been done to punish the guilty to this day.
If you haven't read it, you should.
While it is fiction, it gives the reader an excellent history of firearms laws in the USA and the agencies (BATF and FBI) who have used those laws to oppress (and in some cases murder) innocent people.
It is a fantastic book and my 3rd favorite read after Atlas Shrugged and The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
The two instances that you mention are both covered in some detail in John Ross' superb book.
I agree the right to be let alone is a key point to the Constitution. I suspect most Americans (probably > two thirds) strongly support the right of people with radical or wrongheaded ideas to live freely.
I don't have a full understanding of freedom and how it relates to liberty.
We take these things way to lightly, with overconfidence that we won't really lose liberty or freedom in a way that matters. We try to teach kids not to be overconfident about risky behavior leading to accidents, but we don't take the risk of losing liberty seriously enough IMHO.
Freedom from sickness for everyone! And they’re going to kick and scream, as ordered, until they get what they want.
Thank you for posting this info. In retrospect, it provides a perspective what strategies/tactics the left uses to falsely target groups that it deems dangerous to its rule with a potential of large scale effect.
It was also under Clinton's watch that Reno sent out armed federal agents in a predawn raid to snatch Elian Gonzales and return him to his father who took him back to Cuba.
The evil of the left was obvious and in full view even then.
They became only more vicious and emboldened. Their goal obviously is to incite violence to the breaking point hoping that will yield the power they so desperately covet.
It is a risk they will lose it for a long time to come.
I'd take issue with your comment that "there is no perfect system and even the most carefully constructed government can be subverted."
Yes, it is subverted, under direct order by Hussein when he was still in power.
Why can it be subverted? The GOP is cognizant of what is happening.
Don't disappoint your supporters.