DEFENSE Defense of individual rights Defense of the people against foreign use of force Defense of the people against domestic use of force that would impede their exercise of individual rights Defense of commerce and business conducted by the people in personal or corporate form Defense
I sometimes view history through a prism of "evolution"--the attachment of property rights to individuals other than a "ruling class" was the first step to founding a limited government--Private property acts as a countervailing power to concentrated government, as does religion itself. Compare the Soviet Union, as it abolished both private property and religion. Which is why I feel corporate America has let Americans down by siding with government. I feel corporations have become whiny, cringing lobbyists instead of otherwise competitively practicing entities. Shame on cronyism!
I agree. In England at the time of the American Revolution, virtually all property was owned by the Crown and granted to the nobles, who then sold rights to use that property to individuals, but retained "title" to the property, and were thus called the "titled class". That is still true today, except that instead of selling long term (100 year) leases to property rights, now the rights to use the property are sold in perpetuity, and the owner of those rights may re-sell those rights. Pennsylvania was "granted" to William Penn, who was sole ruler (subject to the King's rule) of Pennsylvania. He chose to sell title to the property he had been granted. The same thing happened in other colonies, and the US system of deeds was born. However, even in the US, the government has the right of eminent domain, and can "take back" any land it needs for public use, provided it pays full market value to the title-holder.
I have friends in the UK who were surprised that I was historically educated enough to understand the Magna Carta and its contribution to limited powers of government. I replied that it's our history too!
No, whatever "they" decide is full market value is subject to challenge, and ultimately, by trial in court with experts presenting property valuations in support of each side. Ultimately the jury or the judge decides the value, if it is contested, depending on whether it is a jury trial or a bench trial.
But you see the problem with that whole scenario is that the only one who gets to decide what is "market value" is the owner. All others are moochers or looters of one sort or another. Just look at the instances of eminent domain being exercised against the wishes of the original owner, just to have the property seized lay dormant.
I see the problem, and I tend to agree with you; but the principle of eminent domain is established law under all governments and is enshrined in our Constitution. We can't get away from it. All governments have the power to seize property provided they pay fair market value, which is what an owner willing to sell and a buyer willing to buy would agree for the property in question under the market conditions at the time. The key to this is "willing." Even if the owner is not willing to sell, he must sell at the price he would receive under market conditions at the time if he were willing to sell.
If property is targeted to be forcefully taken without the owner's consent, then that property would be fairly worthless to the "fair-market." Force typically gets a bargain.
No. There is no "fair market price" other than that established by the seller. If the buyer (even the gov't) isn't willing to pay that price, then it is the property of the seller. Only the seller gets to establish the price. "Fair market" or not.
There is longstanding legal precedent establishing in the United States that the "fair market price" is the price for which a given property would sell as negotiated between a willing seller and a willing buyer. That is established, in the absence of a willing seller, by independent real estate appraisals based on recent sales of comparable properties in the same area. There is no way under American law, pursuant to the Constitution, to get around that. The government has the right under the constitution to take the property at a fair market price, whether the seller is willing to sell or not, provided the taking is for a legitimate public purpose. I don't have to agree with that, but I have to accept that to be the case, unless the Constitution is amended to abolish eminent domain. That has never happened in earth's history since governments have been established. There could be no "public works" construction without the government having eminent domain rights. One property owner could hold up the government for far more than "fair market value" for his land unless he could be forced to sell at a price determined by others. There would be no highways, no railways, no courthouses, no government offices, no dams, no bridges, etc. There would have been no railroad for Dagny Taggert to own were it not for the railroad's ability to use the government's eminent domain powers to acquire rail right-of-way.
Which is just bogus. The only "willing seller" of a piece of property is the title holder of the property. Otherwise, it is theft, pure and simple.
The fact that an owner of property can "hold up" the sale for the interest of "public works" is no consequence. Property ownership is sacrosanct and to overrule such is a travesty.
IMHO you are correct with the exception of Dagny's railroad. I don't believe a person of Dagny's character would us the power of government for private purposes. I know I never will.
I agree in principle with the comments from all of you; but I reiterate: All governments have always had the power of eminent domain. It is defined in our Constitution. We cannot get around that without an Amendment of the Constitution. End of story, unless you can amend the Constitution.
Correct. Without property rights there are no other rights. Without property rights you don't own yourself or any of the things your mind creates. Without property rights there is only slavery.
Control is the purpose government sees for itself, but that is not the true purpose of government, unless you mean control of anything that threatens individual rights (including property rights), threatens the external use of force against the people, or that internally threatens force against the people, or that threatens the commerce and business undertaken by the people.
Ranter, governments exist all over the world today, and have throughout history. The question didn't specify the American government, or the ideal government, so I think we need a one-word answer that applies to all governments. I agree with Solver: control. Government gives one group of people control over another group of people. Nazi Germany had a government and I don''t think anyone would argue its purpose was protection of rights.
It's a very interesting question, and that's my two cents' worth.
The game here is to find a single word that best describes the purpose of government at any level. So as I see it, there is: purpose of government as it is. purpose of government as it should be. So at least two people with the best answers can win this game. (Funny thing is that the two best answers are at opposite ends)
The two ends, in my opinion, are actually (1) the purpose of government as it sees itself, and (2) the purpose of government as defined by its "founding documents". The latter, however, only applies to governments that have founding governments. The Constitution of the English Constitutional Monarchy, for example, is not any single written document, but begins with the Magna Charta. However, the Government preceded the Magna Charta, so it is not a "founding" document. It is a "limiting" document.
Well, strictly speaking, any one word would beg an explanation. But kudos for trying. Aristotle differentiated between the "object" and the means of obtaining that "object". Could be we need to explore the logic of that.
I considered “Ownership” but big government already thinks it owns everything and it is just those free-thinking individuals out there that don't agree, thus “Control" is their higher purpose "for the greater good."
True enough by the founding documents. Unfortunately corruption has turned power into the purpose of the people running the government. In pretty much every country.
Well, I'll take my lead from George Washington. A man who could have chosen to be king had he wanted to do so. Yet, voluntarily limited himself and gave up power willingly as the right thing to do. Too few see GW as the greatest president and instead look to those who give themselves and the "people" things.
This list in the Constitution of the powers of the President is more extensive than the powers possessed at the time by King George, who was by that time a Constitutional Monarch, with most of the powers held by the Parliament. The King could appoint a commander in chief for the King's Army but was no longer allowed to command it himself. The King could not legislate by decree. The King appointed the Cabinet, which actually governed, but subject to the approval of Parliament. The King could not order taxes. The "taxation without representation" complaint made by the colonists was actually against Parliament, not the King. The King appointed the governors of each of the colonies, but, again, subject to the approval of parliament. The President has the power of prosecution for violation of laws in the US. King George did not have that power -- that power was held by Parliament, which governed the court system. In the English system, Parliament had the power to depose a king, and even to execute a king, as it did to King Charles I. The President can be removed by the impeachment process, but is not subject to execution orders from the Congress.
While it is true that the Constitution limits government power, it limits it to the powers it grants to the government. There was -- and is -- no such limitation in the British system.
True -- but in the original Constitution, there were no term limits on the Presidency, so a President could serve as long as he could keep winning elections.
Upon the surrender of Lord Cornwallis, the Continental Army proposed to name George Washington king. He declined. For that and his decision not to seek a third term, I, too, have very high regard for him.
I think that GW deserves more than "high regard." Someone who has such greatness levied upon them and willingly walks away is truly an example of humbleness.
If we set aside the improper purposes of government, I think we would try to come up with the concept that best describes the proper purpose of government. What primary concept subsumes most of the other purposes of government?
Meaning, government's purpose is to ensure and protect individual rights, since these are the only "Rights" and each and every individual is born with and keeps, as derived from reason.
I think I know what you mean but I don't think that to be true in the real definition of arbitration. I don't think you can be a far arbitrator when the arbitrator has the power of the gun. :) That is how public unions run havoc over the taxpayers.
Had to think about this one. My one word is " defend", but defend what? The precepts set forth in the constitution. It is that simple. edweaver, good question, made people think.
Thank you! That was my goal. If you want to read & learn more I place my 1 word in a new post called "Follow up - What is the single purpose of government...". There is some really good comments on it as well.
It's big, annoying, and it makes no sense.
Defense of individual rights
Defense of the people against foreign use of force
Defense of the people against domestic use of force that would impede their exercise of individual rights
Defense of commerce and business conducted by the people in personal or corporate form
Defense
Which is why I feel corporate America has let Americans down by siding with government. I feel corporations have become whiny, cringing lobbyists instead of otherwise competitively practicing entities. Shame on cronyism!
The fact that an owner of property can "hold up" the sale for the interest of "public works" is no consequence. Property ownership is sacrosanct and to overrule such is a travesty.
Since they know they are all wise and individuals must be controlled, for their own good, otherwise society will collapse.
It's a very interesting question, and that's my two cents' worth.
So as I see it, there is:
purpose of government as it is.
purpose of government as it should be.
So at least two people with the best answers can win this game.
(Funny thing is that the two best answers are at opposite ends)
Aristotle differentiated between the "object" and the means of obtaining that "object". Could be we need to explore the logic of that.
Of your rights, freedoms and property.
"Pay up or we take your rights, freedoms and property."
So I will stick with my first answer.
The only purpose you see them pursue is Power.
Instead we have his polar opposite
While it is true that the Constitution limits government power, it limits it to the powers it grants to the government. There was -- and is -- no such limitation in the British system.
Explanation: To defend property rights, the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of the people, the country if necessary.
With out LIBERTY there is only tyranny.
Cheers.
At least that is what they think.
To protect our natural individual freedoms...
"To secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers fron the consent of the governed." Thomas Jefferson.
Although I like the things subsumed by KH's "Property", too.
Meaning, government's purpose is to ensure and protect individual rights, since these are the only "Rights" and each and every individual is born with and keeps, as derived from reason.
of individual rights
of personal property
of national sovereignty
The current state of the union.
Latin for :to govern
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