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Is thinking now obsolete?

Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 3 months ago to Philosophy
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I'm leaning towards yes.
SOURCE URL: http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/is-thinking-now-obsolete/


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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years, 3 months ago
    I recommend people watch "Idiocracy", and tell me if that satire movie isn't coming to illustrate the direction our society is headed. Most tell me it seems creepily prophetic of how mindless the world is becoming, and that they see signs of it all around them.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 3 months ago
      Just added "Idiocracy" to my Netflix queue in the #2 slot. (I don't stream, I cheapskate snail mail). It has "very long wait" beside it in the queue. Never saw that before with a 2006 (any that old) DVD.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 3 months ago
    Yes, I'd say 65% of this country is on autopilot and fed the emotional reactions by mOrons (which guide their conduct or lack there of).
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    • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
      I'd say 87%.
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      • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years, 3 months ago
        I would back up your 87%, but the question is when the crap hits the fan and you either think or die how many will choose death, how many will learn to think again?

        We are fast approaching the time when our society will have Dagny with a gun asking us to choose. The gun may be famine, disease or natural disaster. It may actually be the guns of war. It most likely will be joblessness of a collapsed economy. What percentage will choose to think and live when it happens?
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        • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 3 months ago
          The ability to think is learned in childhood. If it has not been learned, by adulthood it is too late to acquire this capability. Except for a few who's parents made the special effort to protect their children or an even fever natural geniuses (or close), the rest of the current population is a wasteland. They will function as told, by whoever tells them.
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          • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years, 3 months ago
            I have seen many people around me who have lost jobs in this last downturn. Some have sunk into the abyss and live only by getting some minimum wage job or on welfare. I have seen others that I thought incapable of thinking and thus performing anything other than menial labor jobs, rise and become a thinker. One such person now owns a car wash business and has recently opened a second site. This person, and I would stat it, this couple, learned to think after both lost their non-thinking jobs to automation.

            I think the percentage that will start to think when forced is higher than zero. I think a person can learn to think as an adult, but I think most will never choose to do so.

            In the circle of people I know, or have worked with that hit hard times since 3006 its about 10% that have learned to think from the downturn. That number is not scientific but simply an observation from a group of people I have met while I too had some out of work time.
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            • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 3 months ago
              I was making a generalization; of course, there are always individual examples to the contrary, but overall, the current generation has the mentality of a slave - do as told and the master will provide. Whether individuals may re-acquire the ability to think is almost irrelevant as three hundred million people are ready-made slaves and will follow orders of whoever is the leader. It is precisely because of the mentality of individualism and self-reliance that the American Revolution became a reality. Such mentality no longer exists in America (in the mass population).
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  • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 3 months ago
    Credited to Alexander Tytler in 1787
    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
    permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until
    the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from
    the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for
    the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury,
    with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose
    fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
    "The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning
    of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these
    nations always progressed through the following sequence:
    >
    1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
    2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
    3. From courage to liberty;
    4. From liberty to abundance;
    5. From abundance to complacency;
    6. From complacency to apathy;
    7. From apathy to dependence;
    8. From dependence back into bondage "

    Whether this a true quote or made up is not relevant. We are on Step 8 in this country. Since over 51% of this country are on some kind of government assistance, (dependence) it will not be long before we are all slaves again and in bondage.

    Tennessee Ernie Ford wrote a song. 16 tons. That song was written because the coal mine company kept the workers in debt to the company store and in essence were slave to it through debt. Where are we?

    Yes thinking is completely obsolete. Here is a link to my book on thinking and you tell me if I am correct or not.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/bc0wkov3lsppz7...

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    • Posted by ewv 10 years, 3 months ago
      The quote is phony, apparently first used in the mid-20th century, with an altered version of the "steps" first appearing in 1943. http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html It resurfaced in a different form around 2000. http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/at...

      There are grains of truth in many of the "steps", but they don't account for the historical progression, and we are currently in a mixture of the last four. The sequence is profoundly anti-intellectual in its implied claim that "faith" is the foundation of human progress, while leaving out the kind of thinking that is required.

      "Faith" was the philosophy of the Dark Ages, and kept it that way for centuries. The return of Aristotelian ideas of individualism and rationality, leading to the Enlightenment with its emphasis on reason, individualism and political freedom made this country and its spectacular success possible. The counter-Enlightenment of irrationalism, collectivism and statism is bringing it down.

      The worst of the "complacency" and "apathy" we suffer from is the widespread ignoring of the importance of ideas and principles. Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason, self interest, and capitalism is required to turn it all around, but those ideas -- in accordance with the counter-Enlightenment -- are shrilly and hysterically rejected and buried in silence by most kinds of intellectuals, who were supposed to be the defenders of thinking.
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    • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 3 months ago
      Excellent write! Much like the book I'd like to write, too. And for some folks who've 'debated me' on the subject, a nice graphic on "The Scientific Method" 30-some pages in...

      (and maybe one typo I found and one compound 'word' I would have hyphenated.., but that's MY OCD speaking... :) )

      I downloaded a copy, thank you, and will read the rest in the near future.
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  • Posted by LesEolides 10 years, 3 months ago
    Oh WOW, man! Like; I think I'll go, ya know, like; watch some more TV, man!

    Nietzsche was right! I'm turning into an anarchist. We're living in a "devolution revolution."

    Or, as another "double plus incorrect" site states, America is "bat feces crazy." I cleaned the expression up a bit...

    I'm suing the stork. He brought me to Planet Bedlam. Just when you don't think it could possibly get any stupider, crazier, insane... it exceeds your expectations and produces yet more of the bat substance mentioned elsewhere...
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 3 months ago
    Professor Sowell is on target.
    Survival of the fittest used to cull some of the non-thinkers and those that remained depended upon the charity of others. Now they all thrive and reproduce sustained by monies redistributed by force of government with an ever increasing number and burden placed upon the remaining thinkers and producers.

    "Since reason is man’s basic means of survival, that which is proper to the life of a rational being is the good; that which negates, opposes or destroys it is the evil. Since everything man needs has to be discovered by his own mind and produced by his own effort, the two essentials of the method of survival proper to a rational being are: thinking and productive work."
    “The Objectivist Ethics,”
    The Virtue of Selfishness, 23

    When the burden is so great to remain a thinker that one recognizing the futility, decides it is no longer worth it, a reset will be requisite... The strike is on! The unthinking will weep, unknowing they have reaped what they have sown.
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  • Posted by TexanSolar 10 years, 3 months ago
    It is amazing how easily people can be led or mislead. We are intentionally being dumbed down.
    Liberalism is evil. It's objective is the control of the populace.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 3 months ago
      Of course it is. You can't control a people who know what freedom is and want it. But if you change the definition of freedom to mean freedom from want instead of freedom to pursue my desires, you can lull people into thinking that government handouts are the only way to go. And with those handouts comes a steep price: the loss of actual liberty.
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  • Posted by RonC 10 years, 3 months ago
    Yes, and it has been since the days of Cronkite and Rather. I remember clearly the day the President gave a speech and Dan Rather followed that speech by telling me what the President really said. He was speaking English, I didn't feel the need for an interpreter, why was Rather doing this? To shape the news to his political point of view instead of reporting the news. This has become the mold of "news reporting" today.
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    • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 3 months ago
      Yes, and I remember shouting at the TV, "Walter, shut the HELL UP" as Cronkite re-described what was happening as humans made the first footprints on the moon...
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    • Posted by Notperfect 10 years, 3 months ago
      Now this I can agree most certainly to. And that's the way it is "Cronkite' goodnight.
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      • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 3 months ago
        One thing about Cronkite, that is , and has been lacking for decades is neutrality in the Media. Cronkite by all accounts and by his own words in interviews was an ultra far left liberal, however, when addressing news, you could rarely tell what his personal political views were. He reported the news, fairly, and factually, hense his famous closing statement, "And that's the way is was, MM/DD/YEAR
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  • Posted by radical 10 years, 3 months ago
    Back in October 2009 I was featured in the Fresno Bee as letter writer of the month ( 61 letters ). In this feature was a brief biography, education,family and marital status. The major question was my chief concern in current events. My answer stated that I was (am) alarmed by the number of Americans who think that they have a right to the productive efforts of others. To the inquiry about my political beliefs I said "Libertarian, following Ayn Rand, Thomas Sowell, and Walter Williams."
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 3 months ago
    Of course the answer is yes.
    There are exceptions such as the Gulch that proves the rule. But I've seen it happen bit by bit, over the years. From education to entertainment, the word is, "You go ahead and live your life, we'll do your thinking for you." After a while certain attitudes and ideas are taken for granted as to how things should be. Equal opportunity becomes equal outcome. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, rather being something to be earned, becomes something to be given to everyone. We get, as a result, the desire to "even the playing field" in the Middle East, which to anyone who can think is totally ridiculous on the face of it. Sowell puts the problem in a form that Rand expressed many years ago when she said that the chief problem facing mankind is "To think or not to think."
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  • Posted by wiggys 10 years, 3 months ago
    the school system eliminated teaching the students how to think years and years ago. a perfect example of how far back this goes in geroldo rivera.
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  • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 3 months ago
    My business has outlawed thinking and creativity. Now we follow standard operating procedures and we are punished for thought and creativity.
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    • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 3 months ago
      "...and we are punished for thought and creativity."

      Yep, been there, done that, been punished for it.

      Short story: I met the guy who taught Motorola "6-Sigma Process Control." No, Motorola didn't invent it. My friend taught them.

      Six Sigma is a method of eliminating VARIABILITY from a process, often a manufacturing or production process.

      And it's NOT an end in itself... Until or Unless you can achieve a REPEATABLE PROCESS you will not be able to tweak or tune it to be an efficient, accurate, profitable process, and until then there's no guarantee that the OUTPUT of your process will even be what you want!

      But if you can't control it and understand what inputs control changes in output, it's a random walk towards success.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
      There's a time for both. When operating equipment, SOP's are usually better than "creativity." When solving a problem, oftentimes creativity is needed over rote rule following. Depends.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 3 months ago
        I agree. SOP's are better than creative thinking in aeronautics, surgery, laboratory medicine and other low-fault tolerance disciplines. When the problem exceeds the limitations of the SOP's, then it is necessary to be able to think creatively. It is like this: any job that can be reduced to a set of SOP's can potentially be better done by a robot than by a person. Until we get robots that capable, we humans have to sub in...with the advantage of being able to take off the 'robot hat' and put on the 'creative human' hat when the situation goes south.

        There is nothing wrong with following SOP's but if you want to be able to put on the 'creative human' had you had better understand what the SOP is trying to achieve and the theoretical structure underlying it.

        I remember one time in the lab at 2 AM, I was in blood bank and there was a super-STAT crossmatch I was trying to complete. (Crossmatches are rigorously SOP controlled!) The crossmatch was incompatible - in an odd way. In the middle of this emergency, I sat back in my chair for about 10 minutes, closed my eyes, and imagined the antigen-antibody reactions involved...several scenarios of different Ab...After 10 min I opened my eyes, pulled out a new set of reagents and proceeded to do a set of crossmatches under slightly different parameters - which got me to a place that I could find a couple of units of compatible blood. I had reached the limit that the SOP could take me, but because I understood the underlying theory I could figure out what to do de novo (and document it out the wazoo).

        Jan
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
          Part of what I do is replace human interaction with automation. You don't displace the human (at least, we don't - some do) as there are often needs to deal with exceptions to the norm. You merely take away the variation of how one human handles a set of parameters where a different human would take different action. There is only one best way, finding that and coding it into PLC's (programmable logic controllers - mini-computers) is the key.

          Your example is the exact instance of the need for humans and a proper application of "creativity" over SOP. Good for you. (I'm a B neg, btw, so you can guess that every local blood bank has my name).
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          • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 3 months ago
            Oh boy, yeah. Only thing worse is AB neg.

            I used to have to steal blood from the next day's routine surgery list if I had an emergency crossmatch on someone with B neg or AB neg blood (and then I would order replacement units from the Red X). Sometimes I did not need the replacement units (you always do more crossmatches than there are units actually used), but better safe...

            It was one of the reasons I worked graveyard shift for 17 years: I knew what was going on with an individual (as opposed to 'a rack of tubes') and I actually had occasion to think. I became famous for accidentally doing unordered tests that the doctor needed. "Hmmm, nothing abnormal there, Jan. I am going to add an amylase..." "Amylase is 432, doctor. Uh. I did it by accident." "Thanks, Jan."

            Not technically correct behavior, but it saved a half hour for the person squirming on the table in the ER.
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      • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 3 months ago
        Totally agree with you Robbie. I am in insurance and SOP's are stifling my agents' abilities to interact with the customer for optimal sales/service interactions. Now calls for into maybe 4 call types. We basically adapted 4 scripts. May as well quote over the internet.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
          What's driving that?

          I'm a process improvement guy and use tools that drive standardization, but you need to use them only where they are appropriate. Slathering them on everything does exactly what you are experiencing.

          On the other hand, I have experience with product development engineers who feel that everything they do is "unique." I tracked them and showed them that over 75% of their activity is repeatable, though the specifics are unique. We developed standard processes for those 75% which helped them free up more time for the really creative 25% (which, with the extra time grew - not sure by how much, but where guys were complaining about 60-70 hour weeks they were happy with 50 hrs and some even got down to a "normal" 40 hr wk).
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          • Posted by brando79az 10 years, 3 months ago
            It is slathered. Their job is unique. Every customer is unique and has unique customers. Insurance is not a widget. This program has been pushed for about 3 years but they made too much of it. Originally it was a "Lean" process. That is fine but they turned it into a monster. Our top sales and service agents were forced to adapt standardized behaviors that lessened their numbers, our sales, customer satisfaction and first call resolution numbers are lower. Our agents no longer know the big picture because they are trained just to follow the scripts so they make poor decisions. These standards were designed to help the poor worker but this was only necessary because proper actions to correct their behaviors or move them out the door were executed poorly. I am all for eliminating waste but people need to learn to think for themselves and use common sense.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
              I feel for you. I'd be interested in knowing who guided you, but not on a public forum. They were incompetent (but I'm guessing, cheap). You get what you pay for.

              If your leaders are interested in a partner that can help, let me know and I'll find a way to get in contact with you and we can discuss off-line.
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