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Viscerally Visceral, by Robert Gore

Posted by straightlinelogic 6 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
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The dictionary defines “visceral” as: “Relating to deep inward feelings rather than to the intellect.” I was trying to get the woman to define the principle supporting her assertion and perhaps extend it to other issues. She had a deep inward feeling, that’s all, no principle, a product of the intellect.

It was some years before I realized that “visceral” was a key to understanding the world. Its definition is not just a definition, it’s a description of how most people perceive and interpret reality most of the time—with their emotions rather than their intellects.

This is an excerpt. For the complete article, please click the above link.
SOURCE URL: https://straightlinelogic.com/2018/03/02/viscerally-visceral-by-robert-gore/


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  • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 9 months ago
    ' The more cowardly captains of corporate America caved.'
    Viscerally Visceral Delta airlines based in Atlanta reneged on a discount for NRA members to fly. It was an expensive emotional outburst.

    On Friday, a new Georgia tax package that removed Delta’s $40 million fuel tax break was signed into law. The move follows the announcement by Delta, which is based in Atlanta, Ga., to severe ties with the NRA, USA Today reports:

    “The Georgia legislature removed a jet-fuel tax break from a larger tax package Thursday. Lawmakers were upset that Delta, which is headquartered in Atlanta, dropped the National Rifle Association from a discount-fare program in an effort to appear neutral on gun policy.”

    “But the airline said only 13 passengers ever bought tickets with an NRA discount. That translates into each discount costing the airline about $3 million in tax breaks.”

    Meanwhile, interest in NRA membership has skyrocketed, according to Daily Mail:

    “The NRA has seen a huge surge in membership interest in recent weeks, after drawing noisy backlash over the shooting in Parkland, Florida.

    “Google searches for 'NRA membership' have risen roughly 4,900 per cent since the week before the February 14 shooting, with new members flocking to support the gun owners' rights group.”
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  • Posted by chad 6 years, 9 months ago
    I have said for a long time that perception is far more important in politics and 'the right to rule' than reality. If you can get the crowd to think objectively and rationally there are very few things anyone would dare ask of the government knowing the resulting effects of its use of force to make everyone comply.
    An observation of the herd tells me that the hope for their permission to live objectively and free is almost nil. The best we can do is live unobserved. It was after all the quest of 'the Gulch' to live where others could not observe them and employ the use of government violence to extort the property of others.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 9 months ago
      "The best we can do is live unobserved." Even that, unfortunately, is impossible, as we've learned from Edward Snowden and others the last few years. Check out the cover story, "Big Brother," on surveillance technologies in February's National Geographic.
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      • Posted by chad 6 years, 9 months ago
        What was most frightening to me about the article was the tone of the author; "1984 is here and we have survived and we are safer because of it! Nothing to worry about here!"
        Not only is the government watching without permission (warrants) it is gathering and storing intel on its people and working on storing and developing strategies based on the intel it gathers to control its citizens. The largest data center in the world is being built in Utah by the NSA (when it was first formed we deridingly referred to it as 'No Such Agency' because most agents refused to admit to its existence or that it had any kind of existence. I don't think the NSA is going to acquire this data and just store it to find if it is useful later. Real time tracking of citizens at every moment is possible through the electronic devices that are used. When the requirement for RFID's is required no one will be able to do anything without permission. Scanners have been developed that can scan a home and pick up RFID's that are there. Government officials will not be pleased when they discover that Chad and Robert are meeting together on a frequent basis.
        With the advent of secret courts it will be easy to get 'permission' to turn off their accounts making travel, eating or anything else impossible until they have compliance, or simply eliminate the bothersome pair with a secret warrant to protect America from a secret terrorist threat. (FISA courts) When the first cameras were put in use in the late 80's there was an uproar and it stopped their use for awhile. Now warrantless searches are the norm, cameras and intrusion is ubiquitous and the citizens are happy about it and distrustful of anyone who wants to be left alone.
        My children refer to me as a socially functioning misanthrope. I can get along with people but I don't trust many of them.
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        • Posted by 6 years, 9 months ago
          The National Geographic has become another propaganda organ for the establishment. The tone bothered me, too, as it does with many of their articles. I keep the subscription because it's good bathroom reading, and I like the pictures.
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  • Posted by $ gharkness 6 years, 9 months ago
    Wow. I don't even know what to say. Which line to quote. What part to say "Yes, THIS!!!" about. I can't even say "Oh, this is good," because it's so much better than "good" I don't know exactly how to describe it....I guess my only tiny contribution would be to say "Don't stop at the beginning. The really good part - or what most people will perceive as 'really good' only appears when you get down to the CNN Town Hall part."

    Not that the beginning is at all less cogent, but that most audiences these days are only interested in hearing about the "latest" exciting "disaster" to emote about, and don't care or even think about abortion until somebody shoots up an abortion clinic. THEN that will come to the forefront again. Pillar to post....that's what this new young audience does....from one thing to another, kind of like a pinball machine.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 6 years, 9 months ago
    Just what is a definition that is not about objective reality? There is no such thing as a "just a definition". If a definition is not about reality, it is not a definition. That includes mathematical definitions which define mental objects since a mind also exists in objective reality.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 9 months ago
      I did not say the definition of visceral was not about objective reality. As you assert, all definitions have a referent in reality. I said it was not just a definition, but a description of an epistemological process used by most people.
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 years, 9 months ago
    Read Scott Adams blog... We don't decide most things based on logic. We are irrational creatures 90% of the time (or more), and use a combination of lying to ourselves as justifications to confirm our biases... Way more than we use logic.

    I will give you an example. A friend of mine did a series of transactions around multiple states. He logically owes taxes on these transactions. He believes he is an honest/righteous person. Do you think he paid the taxes? Would you? Is injury on the state somehow allowed, but injury on a person not?

    Another example. A friend had a child via c-section. Found out that the insurance they had did not exist. It was a scam. The hospital stuck him with the full cost of the services rendered. Had they been illegal, it would have been free (mind you).
    This amount exceeded his annual salary. He should have negotiated down the price, but did not. Instead he started paying them $50-100/month, every month. Years later they settled the balance.

    He signed the paper that said he would be responsible for all fees, if the insurance company would not pay them for any reason. He was truly responsible for them. But it seems unfair.

    Here is the difference, IMO, one followed the letter of the law, and probably paid a lot less than was required, but it was mutually agreed upon... No one was harmed. Everyone worked through a bad situation... In the other case, I believe the answer is that "I am honest" has an asterisk that says "Only in dealing with individuals, but not our government!"

    We are VERY COMPLEX beings... And I agree with Scott Adams. Most of what we think is "Logical" is reverse engineered to look that way to keep some FAKE INTERNAL Consistency. When I confronted my friend, he said "Fxxx the government!"
    And YET I would trust him with my life!
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 6 years, 9 months ago
    As Ayn Rand so brilliantly defined, emotions are not primaries. They are value judgments, our diagnostic feedback by which to evaluate what our senses perceive as beneficial or detrimental to our survival. Trouble is, the criteria by which we evaluate them had to have been programmed into us beforehand, by values and premises selected either rationally or accepted unthinkingly from the surrounding culture. Hence Rand's frequent admonition to "check your premises".

    Emotions predate abstract reasoning, rational consciousness, and free will, which developed later on the evolutionary timeline. Emotions are the visceral function of the animal level of operation, stimulus response, instinctive reaction playing by the cause-and-effect laws of nature. That is by far how most people still function; it's built in. Who in an emergency will reflect calmly and dispassionately when the fight-or-flight adrenaline starts pumping through the veins? In fact, people who don't get rattled and emotional are looked down on as sociopaths or worse. Even those capable of rational thought do not always engage it. Not everyone is or can be an Ayn Rand hero. It may even be a case of "If you can keep your head when all about you / Are losing theirs and blaming it on you"...
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 6 years, 9 months ago
    "Reason always wins"? Would that it were so. But sometimes a hysterical mob overpowers a rational minority or individual, however irrational the mob is. Of course, in the end, the mob is going toward its
    own destruction. But this doesn't always happen soon enough to do the victim(s) any good. Still, one must fight.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 9 months ago
    It seems that progressively (pun intended) we the people, have lost touch with our intellect over the past 120 years and as a result, as you say...have become increasingly "Emotionally" Emotional, which is product of the Brain absent a mind.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 9 months ago
    "Imagine when our system, built as it is on wishful thinking, finally collapses. Imagine confronting these hysterical creatures.
    [snip]
    Collapse will have its compensations."
    When you said this before, you said it jest. Given the path irrational fearful reactions to a monetary crisis can take, though, you have a dark sense of humor I don't get. I might get the joke if you wrote "---Adolf Hitler" right after "Collapse will have its compensations," but it's too soon. In millennium it will be like the Punic Wars or something, but it's still within living memory.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 9 months ago
      I love life but am unwilling to live it on "their" terms. I will fight them with everything I have, including my life, if necessary. With such a mindset, I find a sense of humor and irony essential to preserving my sanity and retaining my optimistic (yes, optimistic, at least on a personal level) sense of life. Dark times call forth dark humor. I make no apologies.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 9 months ago
        "Dark times call forth dark humor."
        When were the good times in human history?
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        • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 9 months ago
          Good times 11/8/2016
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 9 months ago
            A year ago? Then how did we get from good times to accepting the inevitability of doom with gallows humor in one year.? That doesn't add up.
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            • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 9 months ago
              It's dark times for the corrupt ObamaClinton crime syndicate. The conspiracy to leak phony salacious Russian collusion BS to the media with the intent to influence the election. FBI. DOJ using unverified
              Clinton fake dossier to obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trumps campaign and the same toilet paper to create a special counsel to discredit a duly elected President.https://www.vox.com/2018/2/2/16957588/nunes-m...
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 9 months ago
                I agree FISA warrants are a rubber stamp, but the rest I think is partisan crap. But if if the partisan crap leads to real reforms, I'm 100% for it. I don't think it does. Politicians want "the issue", not a solution. They want to be the good guys fighting against the bad guys and nothing gets reformed. I feel like people who buy are duped, but maybe I'll discover there really were a group of a good guys wanting to limit it. I seems completely false. Well, not completely. Rand Paul called out "Get a warrant!" in the debates in response to questions of gov't powers. Almost everyone says we need to open the floodgates of money and power if there's even a suggestion it's for "security" or "the children". Rand Paul, Ron Paul, and Gary Johnson really seem like the went to bat for liberty issues, willing to take criticism, willing to face "this child might be alive if we only took more money from your paycheck or made it easier to spy on citiziens" in favor of what's right. As for the rest of it, I'm starting to see it like ewv: Philosophy. If people wanted limited gov't, politicians would pander to get it. But they're more like me washing down my blood pressure pills with a Taco Bell crunch wrap-- irrational behavior. (I'm actually getting better about that.) I'm just saying people don't always do what's good for them.
                But the partisan crap about President Obama and Secretary Clinton--- it doesn't even taste good loaded up with salt and spice like Taco Bell. I don't know why anyone not getting paid says that crap.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 9 months ago
    "I asked if the right to control one’s body implied a right to control one’s mind, and the right to control the products of one’s body and mind."
    If her visceral reaction were one's right to one's body, life, mind, and everything they create were absolute and the person used it as a starting point, this is consistent with how I see things. Ayn Rand fans tell me if I had understood Virtue of Selfishness, I would understand that human rights are not an axiom but rather flow logically from reason. I'm really fascinated by this because I don't follow it, but I like the notion. I like the notion that my belief in human rights are given by our creator or my visceral feelings but rest on reason.

    Many people who know how to derive the origin of rights think people like me who hold them as axioms are contemptible philistines. If the less philosophically sophisticated of the world just took human rights to heart for unsound reasons, that would be an improvement.
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