Reading 'Free Market Revolution'...and rambling thoughts on beggars

Posted by stadler178 11 years, 2 months ago to Economics
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I would like to have a broader perspective on all this, so I certainly won't stop there, but I find the book really interesting. The explanations are very straightforward and challenge the common views of capitalism and what producers actually do. (I found the statement about how businessmen are always the villains in movies a particularly good point. It does seem like much of entertainment is left-leaning. I'm actually finding it hard to enjoy some stuff I used to, don't know if that's good or bad...)

Anyway, I feel like it helped me sort of grasp that capitalism and rational self-interest do not mean you therefore don't help anyone, ever. Just that you do so only as a trader and not in self-sacrifice.

Makes me think. I used to give to most anyone who asked for money--now I just don't have any to spare, largely because of the above taken to irrational degrees to two consecutive bad relationships. One time two years ago, a guy at a grocery store took my groceries to my car (he didn't ask my permission, apparently he hired himself? Shopping carts still work, so he kinda got replaced a really long time ago save for the very elderly...). Feeling generous and admiring someone willing to earn some money, I gave him $20. He responded as if I'd short-changed him! That really changed my mind about helping people the way I used to.
Some folks don't earn that much for 2-3 hours' sweating in a hot kitchen at restaurants, and this guy got it by walking 30 feet with some bags.

Another bizarre example of begging came from some young men (they were black, and so am I, by the way, but their words and actions were all that bothered me) on the subway. They'd come and sit next to me, one of them, and say, "I just got out of jail. Can you give me some money so I can get something to eat? I'm not trying to rob nobody, you know?" I couldn't help thinking, so was that a veiled threat, that if I don't give up some money, you'll take it all by force, which would then land you back in jail, and repeat? Also, did the jail give you a farecard so you could board the train? (Or did they just jump over the gate when the station manager wasn't looking?) Maybe you could have used that money to buy some food. Of course I'd usually give if I had the money, but mostly because I assumed they really would either rob me or someone else (which they might do anyway) otherwise.

I get that not everyone was born middle-class or what have you. My parents lived in a crappy apartment in a high-crime area before I was born, and eventually they earned enough to get somewhere better. They both came from middle-class families, but there was nothing exceptional about their intellect that enabled them to prosper. Good parents help, but they don't do your schooling or job search for you, you know? Of course I believe environment and parenting have a huge impact on one's drive to prosper, but people choose to not just accept a dismal fate every day of the week. Because they can. Everyone can succeed at their own level, but only if they resolve to actually try.


It's not that everyone who doesn't have a home or is very poor is an ungrateful bum or on drugs, but I've come to know many beggars are experts at lying about who they are or where they come from. (I know some of that is just survival instinct when you're brought up in a rough area. You say or do what it takes to survive--although I'd hardly call it survival.) Now that I appreciate the value of my money, I see that I can't just trust that their intentions are good. Also, I see the same people for days and months on end, so they're surviving without my help, heck, some of them look better fed than me! But I've got a lot more to do with my earnings and a lot less earnings to work with, so...I had to give a microscopic shrug of sorts...

Anyway, I am eager to finish the book, but I wanted to hear some of your thoughts on the Free Market book, not to replace my own investigations/conclusions, just because, well, I kinda don't have anyone to talk to about it. Or at least I've largely chosen to be isolated for reasons too cumbersome to explain without derailing an already derailed subject.

Lastly, I keep hearing Jason Beghe's voice in my head since I watched most of ASP2 recently. Anyone else have that problem? "Try pouring a ton of steel without rigid principles." Yes!



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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 2 months ago
    Uh, yeah I hear Jason Beghe's voice a lot; I heard him deliver that line again last night.

    Also, "You can't win a battle that never ends".

    And the entire trial speech....
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 11 years, 2 months ago
    You communicate extremely well, and appear to have some real stories to tell.

    My guess is that you will do this storytelling on a grand scale somewhere down the line...and I hope that I am still here to read it.

    Ironically enough, unless you publish under the pseudonym of "stadler178", I will never know!

    Keep observing, and expanding.

    My money is on you having a wondrous future...!
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 2 months ago
    " I gave him $20. He responded as if I'd short-changed him!"
    He either insane or your misunderstood. $20 is too much.
    "'I'm not trying to rob nobody, you know?' I couldn't help thinking, so was that a veiled threat,"
    It's a hardly veiled threat.

    You write a lot about wanting to help those beggars. I submit that handing them cash is not helping them. It's unlikely they are otherwise stable people who only need a small amount cash to right their lives. If you want to help them, I would save the money you would hand them for someone you actually know and can influence. When that opportunity comes around, you can give them money on the contingency that they do reasonable things with it. You can never guarantee they won't find a way to waste your money, but your odds are much better than giving it to a stranger.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 2 months ago
    welcome stadler. great post.
    in a free society, there are plenty of opportunities and most people take advantage of them, and more importantly, the whole ladder moves up. there will always be people looking for something for nothing and will scorn those with guilt offering a largesse for nothing. There will also be those who cannot take care of themselves. It is not society's job. If you as an individual want to take it on and go in with others to alleviate this suffering, go for it. Understand, this is not the MOST noble undertaking and may not be the BEST way to use your talents or to help this group of people out in the long run.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 2 months ago
      Yes, but I think it is noble to hold on to your money until such time you know someone who needs the money and you know it will really make a positive difference in their life-- maybe it's a hard-working single-parent who could you help to get to a class, get a car to get to a job, get their own tools, etc.

      That's totally different from handing cash to a stranger.

      I am not saying you _should_ do this and pretend like you enjoy it. It's just something I believe in doing.

      [pardon all the singular they/them]
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