Student Invents Device that Charges Batteries with Radio and WIFI Waves

Posted by Kittyhawk 10 years, 4 months ago to Technology
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German university student, Dennis Siegel, invented a device that captures electromagnetic fields like WIFI and radio waves and converts them to stored energy in batteries.
SOURCE URL: http://www.activistpost.com/2013/02/student-invents-device-that-charges.html#!blr6nh


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 4 months ago
    I tried to do this when I was in high school by connecting my long-wire shortwave antenna to a galvanometer. I got very little current, although I didn't know anything at that point about impedance matching. Usually I saw a trickle of current, but I occasionally saw spikes. I didn't have a spectrum analyzer to work out where they were.

    I'm skeptical about how much power you can get. I'd be shocked to see 1mW developed in a 50-ohm load. That works out to 0.22V, which is VERY hard to work w/ b/c it's less than a diode drop, BUT people are working hard on it b/c many of these energy harvesting ideas produce very low voltages. Even if the boost converter were 20% efficient, you would have 67uA at 3V. That's more than enough to run a small microcontroller with a 32kHz clock running that wakes up and does something at least once a second.

    I'd love to here how Mr. Siegel boosts the voltage. That's were all the trickiness is. I love this topic.
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    • Posted by $ Your_Name_Goes_Here 10 years, 4 months ago
      As a fellow engineer, I agree with your points... The other thing I'd ask is how much degradation the field experiences that is being "tapped" . There's no such thing as a free lunch after all.

      Intel has been playing with AC-powered wireless charging for some time (at least since 2008), and Starbucks is deploying wireless charging for its customers beginning this year:

      http://www.powermat.com/announcements/na...
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 4 months ago
        "The other thing I'd ask is how much degradation the field experiences that is being "tapped" . There's no such thing as a free lunch after all."
        My non-physicist understanding goes like this. At less than a wavelength range, inductive and capacitive coupling predominate. Over one wavelength, these effects drop off and the friis path loss equation starts to work. With inductive/capacitive coupling, you're transferring power out of the circuit. With EM coupling (path loss equation), you're picking up a tiny fraction of the radiated power that was going to shoot by your antenna and either deliver energy to something else or just keep going.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 4 months ago
        My Braun toothbrush has had a wireless charging capability for at least 10 years. This is nothing new, but the efficiencies always become the obstacle. You need large arrays (at huge cost) or you need superconductors (at huge cost).
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        • Posted by $ Your_Name_Goes_Here 10 years, 4 months ago
          Understand, but your Braun toothbrush used an inductive coupling approach whereby a portion of the charging circuitry inserted (without exposed wires) into the base of your toothbrush (it formed a transformer in effect). The stuff being touted today is more a near field approach where physical location of your phone doesn't matter as much as your Braun toothbrush did.
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    • Posted by BambiB 10 years, 4 months ago
      Isn't voltage proportional to the number of windings in the coil? And isn't this essentially a "cat's whisker" receiver?

      The problem with measuring voltage with a galvanometer is that the current generated is high frequency AC. You are, after all, converting radio waves. You'd probably want to rectify the voltage to do anything useful with it.

      BTW, you can run an Atmel 8-bit core at 1 MHz on 210µA at 1.8V. Sleep mode takes just .1µA. So you could run a 30% duty cycle 1MHz processor on 67µA.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 10 years, 4 months ago
    In the book Rand describes the motor rather vaguely, something about capturing atmospheric static electricity (the fundamental mechanism of lightning). In the movie (AS1) Dagney mentions "the Casimir effect" which is a very real phenomenon and is related to the vacuum energy of space its self. If the theories are any where near correct the energy available is enormous. Billions of times greater than atomic fusion. It is also astronomically dangerous, the energy stored in a space the size of an ordinary 100 watt light bulb is enough to destroy the Earth.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 4 months ago
    we should recognize this as a corollary to Galt's motor,
    folks -- getting energy from the environment. Ben Franklin
    started this.

    except for inductive reaction (and the power company
    catching you at it), you can harvest power from overhead
    lines and never pay a cent. you can hear the sizzling
    of the capacitive reaction in moist air when you
    walk under them. just form a large loop of wire and,
    zowie, measure the current -- and convert it!

    the video on this site was withdrawn because of 3rd
    party reports of patent infringement, it said.

    if this works, with a high-frequency diode, the patent
    will not do anyone much good -- all able
    electronic tinkerers will do it. -- j

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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 4 months ago
    This is very, very close to John Galt's electrostatic motor. And by the way: our very muscles are biological examples of electrostatic motors.
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  • Posted by Ranter 10 years, 4 months ago
    When I was a boy, I built a crystal radio. It derived the power to run itself from the radio waves in the air. The crystal absorbed radio waves, used some of that energy for power, and translated the signal to vibrations that my ear picked up through a little earphone. No batteries. I assume that this invention is an extension of a similar principle.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 10 years, 4 months ago
    It's all about energy density. Watts per square meter kind of energy. Anyone that remembers crystal sets from the early days of radio knows that it is possible to build a radio receiver that is powered only by the captured energy of the radio station. Stray EM fields are everywhere. If you live near a power line the 60 HZ field is significant, so much so that they represent a troublesome loss of power to the grid. The trick is capturing enough of the energy to be useful. It takes a big antenna and a good impedance match but it is definitely doable.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 10 years, 4 months ago
    I can't believe he just got second place. I tried to watch the video but a message said youtube has received multiple third party complaints about copyright infringement. Hope those folks are talking to this kid. He may be John Galt.
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  • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 4 months ago
    I read about a guy over 50 years ago figured out how to use antenna, to capture the wavelength(s) of gravity which is a field, and the antenna rode the gravity waves up and down moving an induction coil generating a large amount of current. Ironically he disappeared never to be heard from, and his invention is also no place to be found.
    https://einstein.stanford.edu/content/re...
    http://fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/grav...
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    • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 4 months ago
      That would really be interesting, as he likely hit upon one of the fundamental concepts needed to resolve Unified Theory. If he actually figured out the wavelength of gravity, that would be a Nobel-worthy advancement.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 4 months ago
        these 2 referenced urls lead to the conclusion that
        gravity is a very-low-frequency (cycles per light-year)
        wave, which we need an Einstein to translate ... and
        I bet that there is one in here!!! -- j

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        • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 4 months ago
          It would fit with the idea of strings and identifying the tone of various strings as constituent to forming various particles, etc. Which then begs the question: could we then derive a graviton? Is the reason why gravitational forces seem to only have any real effect at astronomical distances because the wavelength of a graviton wave-particle is so long that only only truly massive objects at relatively astronomical distances have A) the mass necessary to resonate and B) the distance necessary to resonate with a perceptible difference between the two bodies that wouldn't be overcome by the standard electromagnetic forces?

          Hmmm....
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          • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 4 months ago
            What if one could alter Newton's basic gravitational interaction equation to account for the wavelength of a graviton and minimum mass? What if Newton's theory is a simplified version of the master equation which takes into account these other items?
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            • Posted by barwick11 10 years, 4 months ago
              Are you a follower of blaze labs? Xavier borg I think is the guys name that does a lot of work on that.

              Gravitational EM waves would be absurdly high frequency if he's right
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              • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 4 months ago
                I'll have to look into it. Thanks for the info.

                Ps - do you mean high frequency/long wavelength or short wavelength/low frequency. The original post by johnpe1 indicated he thought it was long-wavelength... (Wavelength * Frequency = speed of light)
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                • Posted by barwick11 10 years, 4 months ago
                  It would be exceedingly short wavelength
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                  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 4 months ago
                    So past gamma rays then on the EM chart? Okay, I was just trying to place it in relation to johnpe1's information, which would be at the opposite end of the scale.
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                    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 4 months ago
                      I think he means on the other side of the chart, below longwave (VLF) radio. The idea that gravity is an EM field does not at all ring true to me. I love it though when something unexpected turns out to be true.
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                      • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 4 months ago
                        It would be more inline with how conceptually gravity acts primarily on massive objects at astronomical distances rather than at the short (and even sub-atomic wavelength) of high-energy gamma radiation.
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                    • Posted by barwick11 10 years, 4 months ago
                      In his theory, they would be probably up somewhere near the Planck limits

                      http://www.blazelabs.com/pics/em_spectpl...

                      Here's a link to some of his writings on the topic:
                      http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-intro.asp

                      But, that said, they would be so absurdly high energy it would be comical. The only way I can conceive on how they would be interacting with everyday objects without utterly obliterating them is that they NEVER actually collide with an object like gamma rays or other wavelengths do. But rather that they would simply interact by their passing near (I don't know if this happens or not), almost like a field.

                      Basically, if his theory were true, it would be a "push" theory, which explains action at a distance and a number of other effects. And it's also testable with extremely sensitive sensors (how sensitive I don't know). In short, massive objects would be "shadowing" gravity at some very small level. So you have "pressure" from one side where the massive object isn't shadowing, and "less pressure" on the side the massive object is shadowing.

                      In this case, gravity shouldn't "stack" with other objects, but would rather have diminishing returns. So if you stacked every planet in alignment, in theory (these are made up numbers) you would *expect* to see something like this (neglecting distance from the sun as a factor):
                      Gravity "pressure" near the sun, in the direction of the sun: 1.0
                      Gravity behind Mercury: 0.9
                      Gravity behind Venus: 0.8
                      behind Earth: 0.7

                      But in reality, since each object would be shadowing gravity, you're "losing" some strength from some gravity waves as they pass through the massive object. So maybe the gravity near the sun is only 99% of the "free space" gravity "pressure". So now you go to Mercury, and instead of 100% multiplied by Mercury's expected gravity, you only have 99%. And when you get to Venus, you only have 99% + Mercury's deletion of some of the gravity strength, maybe it's now 98%, etc... So by the time you get to Pluto, you may have a significant amount of gravity waves having lost strength, and could measure a difference in *actual* gravity vs "expected" gravity from today's theories.

                      This ALSO means there is a theoretical limit to gravity. It may be near impossible to get to, and may require way more mass than even a black hole could ever have, but, in theory, there would be a limit.
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                      • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 4 months ago
                        ummmmm....... when the moon and the sun are lined
                        up during an eclipse, do we not feel the sum of the
                        gravity from both?

                        it seems to me that we can empirically dismiss the
                        "shadowing" idea...... my thought was and is that
                        gravity is a very long wavelength energy wave
                        which effectively has zero frequency in the inverse
                        square formula.

                        I just wish that we could finish what Albert went to
                        his death trying to do -- integrate gravity into his
                        equations. -- j

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                        • Posted by barwick11 10 years, 4 months ago
                          It's pretty simple if you realize everything is EM waves.
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                          • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 4 months ago
                            the "close force" holding protons and neutrons tight
                            to one another in the nucleus is EM? -- j

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                            • Posted by barwick11 10 years, 4 months ago
                              Protons and neutrons themselves are simply EM standing waves
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                              • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 4 months ago
                                Not sure I follow or agree. If it were that simple, we wouldn't have three versions of Grand Unified Theory to deal with. Hadrons such as protons and neutrons are composed of quarks, which themselves are composed of strings. Leptons (like electrons) are also composed of strings, but of different types. Electromagnetic wave-particles are energy carriers that may interact with massive particles, but the confirmation of the Higgs boson confirmed that there is a non-EM particle which imparts mass (and therefore gravity) when incorporated into a particle that is not affected by EM as we know it.

                                Maybe you can explain what you mean.
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                                • Posted by barwick11 10 years, 4 months ago
                                  I haven't followed it in some time, and am in the middle of a million other things so I'm trying not to drag my attention back to the topic of theoretical physics right now, hehe... But basically, the theory is, all matter is simply standing waves. All particles, etc.
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                • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 4 months ago
                  Note - I got them backwards. Long wavelength = LOW frequency, Short wavelength = HIGH frequency (inverse relationship). With as many times as I've had to calculate those on the fly for radio, you'd think one of these times it would actually resonate... ;)
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    • Posted by BambiB 10 years, 4 months ago
      That's effectively what tidal generators do. They're not a great source of usable energy - but they'd o exist and they do generate some power.

      A local unit (less than the size of a house) would be unlikely to generate more than enough energy to demonstrate the concept. Nothing useful.
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  • Posted by BambiB 10 years, 4 months ago
    At a rough estimate, a rechargeable AA cell holds about 1-2Wh of power. This device takes about 24 hours to charge a single AA battery so assume it provides 1.5 Wh in a 24 hour period, or about .06 watts continuous output.

    Generated electricity (from your wall socket) costs about 12 cents per kWh, +/- 6 cents. For comparison, I'll use 12 cents.

    If this device costs $8, it would take roughly 121 years using the device every day for 24 hours a day to break even on the purchase price… which is why this sort of technology isn't much used.

    Assuming 10% methane, a daily volume of about 1/2 liter and an energy content of 55.7 kJ/g of methane, even disregarding the hydrogen in the mix, the average person expels slightly more energy in the form of farts than this device captures in a day (about 1.66 Wh/day versus 1.5).

    So eat a few more beans.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 4 months ago
    I knew my son was going to be a scientist of some sort when he started fixing electronic stuff around the house at age 8. Turned out to be an engineer in (what else?) the computer field. I told him he could have whatever he fixed. I didn't know we had so much broken stuff. Hmmmm?
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  • Posted by wiggys 10 years, 4 months ago
    maybe at some time in the future this fellow will actually make an automobile engine that runs from static electricity, and if so will he change his name to John Galt?
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