Socialism will never take over America

Posted by Slick 12 years, 1 month ago to Government
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The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings;
The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Sir Winston Churchill
SOURCE URL: http://abundanttruth.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/socialism-will-never-take-over-america/


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  • Posted by WWJGD 12 years, 1 month ago
    This has been up for days. I finally clicked through to see what kind of idiot thinks that "Socialism will never take over America" when it clearly already has.

    The article is actually pretty good -- though I only skimmed so YMMV. There's a lot to like in there.
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    • Posted by overmanwarrior 12 years, 1 month ago
      Socialism is already here, but people haven't been aware of it. Now that they know it, it remains to be seen how people will deal with it. I think people will reject the term, but they've let it go too far already anyway.
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      • Posted by StarveTheBeast 12 years, 1 month ago
        Be careful. We have a long way to go before we hit REALLY hardcore socialism/communism. Technically, we still have personal property rights and free speech. Sort of.

        But if we say "it's already here", then we are going to have a LOT of people say, "well, it's not that bad! Maybe we can get MORE socialism and it will be even BETTER!"

        And that is a very bad scenario.
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    • Posted by amc2339 12 years, 1 month ago
      I disagree here - socialism has not taken over America. We are still a capitalist nation, holding many of true-capitalist ideas to heart. Yes, people may say that Obama is a socialist, but if that's the case, he was still elected by our nation, meaning the majority agree with him (don't claim he cheated or the Electoral College won him the vote. He still won the popular vote).

      Obamacare is definitely a hot topic issue but at its core, it is meant to protect those people who would otherwise be treated as slaves by big business.

      I will be hypocritical here, but I say it because its important: we need optimism. There is no reason to assume the worst and prepare to "Galt" out when things are a little rough. We need reform to bring us out of the current economic stagnation and then in times of prosperity, we can regain capitalism, where ALL people are equal.

      Winston Churchill, arguably one of the best leaders our world has ever seen, recognized the inherent inequities in capitalism. The question should not be: Why are we approaching socialism? Because socialism is simply a term with so many different definitions and connotations. We should avoid all terminology in these cases because we no longer have solid definitions of any of them. Rather than getting caught up in semantics, we should be wondering: How can we make all people equal so that our hard work is the only measure of success?
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 12 years, 1 month ago
        "How can we make all people equal..." WHAT???
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        • Posted by itisntluck 12 years, 1 month ago
          The whole post is a "WTF?". First it says, "We are still a capitalist nation...". Then it says, "we can regain capitalism..". This is all just stupid. I can't go on..................................
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          • Posted by amc2339 11 years, 11 months ago
            We are a capitalist nation, in some ways. There is not a total laissez-faire economy in place and many people see that as a flaw with our nation.

            My point is, terminology means nothing. Rather than hearing the word "socialist" and running for the hills, we should consider the ideas that are encompassed with these policies.

            If you had read what I wrote, I said that we need to make necessary reform to pull "us out of the current economic stagnation", which means we would be abandoning certain capitalistic policies. Once we are prosperous again, we can go back to total capitalism.

            On a side note, responding to something you don't understand as "stupid" is certainly not appropriate; you should ask questions or disagree with your own detailed argument.
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            • Posted by $ kathywiso 11 years, 11 months ago
              If you believe in Capitalism, you don't turn your back on it to regain whatever you are looking for, then go back to it... It will not work.. Too many people riding in the cart and the people pulling the cart are getting really, really, really tired...
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          Posted by amc2339 11 years, 11 months ago
          If people were given equal opportunity, it would be easier to relate hard work to success, therefore giving us a better measure of who are the true moochers and producers.
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          • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 11 years, 11 months ago
            Opportunity is out there for those who wish to, and are capable of, grasping it. Not all are ever going to have the mental/moral capacity to see it. Unfortunately, opportunity comes in many forms, the good, the bad and the ugly. And we all come from different socio-economic backgrounds, which frankly can have very little to do with overall success. It's the moral choices we make which determine the path of our lives: note CHOICE. I am a person guided by morals that do not allow me to subjugate other people to my will, by force or coercion. I make decisions, and I am responsible for the outcome. No one else. I don't expect others to do something for me that I am perfectly capable of doing, and plan to keep it that way.
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          • Posted by $ kathywiso 11 years, 11 months ago
            If you are an American, you have EQUAL opportunity, the only excuse for failure is you and that seems to be too hard of a reality for the 51%...
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            • Posted by amc2339 11 years, 7 months ago
              Not everybody has equal opportunity. Perhaps you've been so lucky as to have your hard work pay off but that is not always the case. It is wrong to call certain people lazy when they work hard but can't seem to succeed.

              Think about the children of single, teen moms. There was no CHOICE to be born into that situation. This child, innocent at birth, conceived as a mistake, is subjected to poverty. Perhaps this child does not get to go to school because her family needs her to work. As a child, does she have the CHOICE to not go to school? No, she's a kid.

              I agree that there is a large portion of the population that don't work hard enough to succeed, but what about the people who work hard and can't catch a break? They exist.

              The US prides itself on social mobility, but its very difficult to move classes sometimes. Its wrong and close-minded to assume all that have failed have not tried. That being said, not all people are destined to be the greatest and ability plays a role. However, there are still people disenfranchised by things out of their control. Those people, who you so kindly refer to as the '51%', should not be lumped together because they are not always sharing the same attitude.

              Racism and sexism exist and penetrate the work place. Women and minorities are given less opportunity and less respect in certain fields, discouraging their success. How do we call that equal opportunity?

              We can say we have equal opportunity when there are equal pays. Women are just as capable as men and in some cases, more capable. Mrs. Rand is a symbol of that. Yet, women are not equal yet.

              That's what I mean by equal opportunity. Not the political bullshit of the 51%.
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 7 months ago
                "Contrary to what you've been taught. Nobody owes you ANYthing!" What a bag of excuses you have. There is always a litany of excuses to not do things you don't really want to do. There IS equal opportunity, but you can't force equal individual application...yet they expect equal outcome. Some people DO have to work harder for what they want to achieve...either they want it or they don't. Sometimes it is just easier to be lazy and take the freebies.. Face it. (I know of no females who get less pay, or any who are discriminated against. Same goes for minorities. Where are you getting these statistics?) The single mother sob story is seriously getting old too. All of these excuses are to conjure up feelings and emotions of pity, guilt and compassion and to shut people up from telling the truth. Stop making excuses, buck up and get some responsibility for yourself and your existence. Nobody owes you a living, or anything else. Figure it out and do it!
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                • Posted by amc2339 11 years, 7 months ago
                  I never suggested that somebody owes anybody a living. I am suggesting that some people are never given a chance to make their own living.

                  As a female, let me tell you, I am MORE than capable of doing things a man can do. I am studying engineering at a college where I am constantly judged by my male peers; they often question my place there. And I still outperform them because I work hard. When I leave the academic field, I will be forced into a sexist field. Here are some statistics for you:

                  http://www.iwpr.org/publications/pubs/th...

                  http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/01/28/...

                  http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cutt...

                  And yes, the child who is uneducated should buck up. Unfortunately, they are not even taught what 'bucking-up' is or how to get any resources to do so.

                  I am not suggesting that people should mooch off of other people because I would never want that done to me. I am saying that people need to stop calling things 'equal opportunity' when they are not.

                  I agree that there will always be people out there with their hands out for a freebie. But its wrong to assume that all people that are poor put themselves there.
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                  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 11 years, 7 months ago
                    I am much older than you. When I wanted something I went and did it. I was the 1st women to do several things in male dominated fields including the military. I heard and saw the rude and crude and the serious efforts to block me. I did it anyway. If you don't have the ability to laugh and take it in stride you won't last.

                    As I've said before. Don't thank me for things you can do now. I didn't do it for you.

                    It's equal opportunity not a guarantee of equal success.
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                  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 7 months ago
                    The major reason for the gender gap in terms of salary has to do with interruptions in career. Women have children, they tend to reduce responsibilities or remove themselves for periods of time from the workplace during childbearing years. That is not just men making that call either. Although it is against the law to ask someone if they're pregnant, if they have kids, what their husband/partner does, those in charge of hiring will make rational decisions and try to reduce their risk. Might be unfair, but there is no way around the statistics of females to job /career interruptions. I think that 1 in 6 workers statistic on sexual harassment over the lifetime of a career isn't that big of a deal. and I would also say probably 16% of people I have worked with over the years are super sensitive about workplace banter and joking. How does one separate that out of the statistic?
                    As to your last article, written by a college professor who's wife is a college professor-what do you think the chances are these people think conservatively or base their conjectures on reason over emotion? Women tend to be the schoolmarms of pc behavior and so it follows that in a workplace environment women will get admonished for behavior that a group of men are far more accepting of. People, instead of cowering behind statistics and claiming fait au complet on on not getting ahead for this or that reason only females are subjected to bug me. Plenty of courageous females who perform well in their jobs/careers move ahead. They are resourceful and often work just as hard once they get home with their family, and they do not whine about opportunities are kept from them-they go out and get what they want. I know, because that's what I have done
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                    • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 11 years, 7 months ago
                      You're right about the sexual harassment. I had tons because I chose to be in male dominated fields. It's not much fun to the harasser if you don't freak out about it and it usually goes away. The opportunity can only be taken away if you allow it to be.
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 7 months ago
                    "some people are never given a chance" That is you're conditioned thought process... you aren't GIVEN chances. You TAKE them...it's a choice. Nobody is going to show up at your door to GIVE you a chance.
                    And...who's responsible for teaching their kids to "buck up"... it all goes right back to responsibility. If one does not learn to posses it then they won't have it, but don't think it's okay to feed off of what I've made with mine. OR try to make me feel guilty because others have chosen to not take chances or be responsible for their own lack of initiative. Sometimes these motivation decisions, throughout history, were based on necessity and survival and that part of the equation has been removed thanks to entitlements and hand outs. So this "why bother" attitude is rampant and contagious. People, adults in particular, are exactly where they are in life because of the decisions they have made that got them there...that is not 'wrong' to assume. We are all where we are because of our decisions no matter how our lives began.
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      • Posted by lostinaforest 12 years, 1 month ago
        First, you cannot make people equal; and second, hard work is not (and never will be) a measure of success. Rather, assuming all people had equal opportunities and equal abilities (which will never be the case), success would be a measure of hard work--not the other way around.

        In reality, people differ greatly in ability, and therefore while hard work and success may be correlated to some extent, you could never realistically expect a one-to-one relationship between the two.
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        • Posted by amc2339 11 years, 11 months ago
          I agree with you and realize that I have misspoken (for which I am very sorry) - I was trying to point out that many people shame the unsuccessful by claiming they are lazy. There are other things that play into success rather than just hard work.

          For instance, I am currently a student at Columbia University. My hard work and performance were factors in my acceptance, however, there are other students out there that match my abilities that are overlooked. There are people from impoverished areas, where school work is pushed aside for a job to cover the rent, etc. This is what I meant when I said I wanted people to be equal - I meant that people are given different opportunities based on their upbringing, families, location, etc. It isn't the person's fault, it is based on factors out of their control.

          I agree with you, people different greatly by ability, but it is unfair to disenfranchise certain people based on things out of their control. If people were given equal opportunity, it would be easier to relate hard work to success, therefore giving us a better measure of who are the true moochers and producers.
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