I First Read Atlas Shrugged This Year...Why Do So Many Hate It?

Posted by stadler178 11 years, 3 months ago to Philosophy
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I'd sort of heard of Atlas Shrugged, but the movie made me curious--particularly because I can only recall seeing one commercial for it and then I never heard anything again until I saw it in the stores. I decided I would read the book more or less at the same time as I checked out the first movie.

My first impression was that I really liked Dagny Taggart. She was, in my mind, one of the best female protagonists I'd ever read about. I kept thinking, where is this kind of female larger-than-life heroine in our popular culture? Brilliant, confident, and successful without being bound to any man or disturbed by seeming like a sort of minority amongst all the men in the business world (at least in the context of the story, I didn't see any other female characters of her sort beyond maybe the actress who disappears to Galt's Gulch).

Hank Rearden also impressed me as a man devoted to his invention and his company, the sort of executive I feel like is the man of yesteryear, with so many executives today seeming more like free agents on a football team. Also, on a personal level, his marriage seemed to remind me so much of my own that it was painful to read. Of course, I'd hardly compare my accomplishments to those of Hank Rearden; I just felt like this was a conversation I'd had before with my wife as I was reading it.

Perhaps it may seem odd, but in Francisco d'Anconia, I felt like the closest comparison I could think of was sort of a Bruce Wayne/Batman persona. Except that doesn't really fit--in his own way, he's almost obvious in what he's doing, but at the same time, nobody notices. His speech about money was just plain riveting. It totally overturned my formerly held ideas about money (the Biblical verse about the love of money being the root of all evil). His speech to Hank was also a classic and well worth reading.

Once John Galt himself showed up...and that speech...I felt like my mind was on fire. It was like somebody finally figured it out and spelled it out so eloquently.

As someone who was raised in a cult (you know, the one that hands out Watchtowers and Awakes? Well, don't ever take one, believe me), I was very skeptical of a book that said on the back cover that it was "unlike any other book you have ever read". I figured, what kind of recruitment technique is on the table this time? What's the gimmick? I'd certainly wondered if there was some sort of personality cult around Ayn Rand, some shadowy agenda thus far unknown to me. But that seems difficult to reconcile with a philosophy that says when two men of reason disagree, objective reality should decide. That man's mind is his tool of survival. This all seemed the absolute opposite of what cults do--which is tell you NOT to think, not to question, simply to obey. Hugh Akston's words to Dagny were particularly poignant on that subject, when he said that they weren't trying to get her obedience, but rather her rational conviction. Providing proof rather than merely assertions--now that, I can agree with, especially after having baseless ideas shoveled at me for most of my life that I had to obey without question.

After being so thoroughly impressed with 'Atlas Shrugged', and pleased at a pretty decent effort at turning the book into a movie, I wanted to read more of Ayn Rand's work. I'm most of the way through 'We the Living', though it's a harder read than 'Atlas', of course. I look forward to 'Anthem' and 'The Fountainhead' as well, and maybe some of the nonfiction stuff someday...

I was just floating through YouTube the other night after the President's speech, and decided to look up some stuff on Ayn Rand on there. I was particularly disturbed at how the mainstream media seemed to dismiss 'Atlas Shrugged' as juvenile, like the sort of book you read in high school or college 'and then you grow up'. There was even one particularly disturbing ad hominem report on Rand herself that seemed to take some of her interview with Mike Wallace and asserted she was some sort of sicko who fixated on a serial killer. Coincidentally, I'd just watched the Mike Wallace interview in its entirety and I realized that they cut the clip so that her statements were taken completely out of context. (As an ex-cult member, this is a HUGE red flag for my brain--that was one of the first things I learned was common in cult propaganda, quoting sources out of context. It's a form of dishonesty that particularly bothers me.) I didn't know anything about the quote from her journal, so I'd have to verify it, but given that the argument against Rand as a person (which is irrelevant to the truth content of her ideas, by the way), I didn't find it likely that that quote was presented in context, either. I'll definitely look it up sometime.

I was hoping to get an objective perspective on why people seem to have such a negative view of Rand and her books. I suppose current politicians who reference her may be some of the reason? I don't know. I tried reading the YouTube comments under the videos I watched, and that wasn't too helpful, either. A very long (look who's talking) argument back and forth between one person who incoherently used ad hominem attacks against Rand and another who pretty much held his/her ground and tried to actually get the other guy to spell out specific reasons why he disagreed. No solid ones were ever offered from what I could tell with my limited knowledge.

I don't know what to make of it. I'm planning to do a more thorough study of philosophy and economics. I'm also planning to read that 'Free Market Revolution' book because I'm curious about it. But I'm woefully uninformed about politics, economics, and so on.

It seems no one I talked to about some of the issues raised in Atlas Shrugged seemed to agree with me. I still wonder about the moral issues involved in it all. Folks earning minimum wage are upset and demanding higher wages, like say in DC with that Walmart story, or the fast food workers striking. I've wondered, should businesses be paying these workers more? And with such a concern about the concentration of wealth in recent decades, what's the alternative? Will a free market actually lead to higher wages for everyone, or would give way to the wealthiest just earning more and keeping the increased profits without offering any kind of additional reward to the workers who helped them earn it? Is it naive to think that the market can fix itself if left alone? It seems to me that greed has been the biggest problem, and the distinction to me is that greed moves a person to get all he can however he can, ignoring the risks involved, whereas a rational self-interest means pursuing one's happiness but not at the expense of others, not asking others to live for you.

Well...I guess I had to offer a full set of my thoughts so far. But the bottom line question is, what is it? Why is there such a dismissive attitude by many towards Atlas Shrugged and the idea of individual freedom? I don't get it. I thought that was the whole point of being American--freedom. Not the freedom of the many to dominate or take advantage of the few, but the freedom of each person to achieve whatever he or she wants.

With all that said, I still wonder, when do we decide to help our fellowman? Aren't there some who cannot exist by trade alone, for whatever reason?

I still have yet to speak the oath in my life...but who knows? Still have a lot to learn...


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  • Posted by Spinkane 11 years, 3 months ago
    “having baseless ideas shoveled at me”
    is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.
    My guess is they felt threatened by Atlas Shrugged.
    As a recovering alcoholic myself I know what’s it’s like to confront the idea “Everything I know is wrong” I actually muttered that to myself in early recovery. It was a very lonely moment but led me to question what kind of reality things are based in for example “Why do I rub soap on myself?” Answer; because I was taught to before I could make up my own mind. I’m happy to report I choose to continue the practice.
    As far as the needy, charity is the only thing I could come up with; if it’s sufficient what a wonderful world. The experts on this site (I am not one) they will stress the point “Of your own free will”
    I enjoyed reading your post.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 11 years, 3 months ago
    I suspect, though I can't be sure, that they are afraid of the message. To realize that you are ultimately responsible for your own satisfaction and measure of success in life goes against years of PC social codependence/reliance mantra. To learn that you've willingly permitted the usurpation of your sovereignty is pretty frightening once you realize that you don't have the courage/WILL to make course corrections. Ridicule and hatred is easier and preserves the poor excuse for dignity those people have.

    Just a guess.
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  • Posted by Wonky 11 years, 3 months ago
    I'd say jump right to "Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand" by Leonard Peikoff if you're looking for real answers without messing around.

    For me, when I first learned about the branches of the US government with all of their checks and balances, in high school, it seemed so crystal clear and perfect. The real government of today is nothing like the perfect one I learned about. Trying to understand what the government has become by slogging through news and commentary seems like it would be tedious and depressing at best.

    I present this as an analogy. I believe that by reading Ayn Rand's fully articulated philosophy, you'll be bypassing all of the crap and getting right to the heart of it. You sound ready to me.
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 11 years, 3 months ago
    Welcome to the Gulch stadler178. Are you like Stadler in the book?

    My answer to your question about the hatred for AS. You grew up in a cult and I'd think you were taught to hate anything that threatens what that cult is based on. It's the same with the irrational hatred and misrepresentation of the book. You must obey. You must not question. Danger Will Robinson, an individual with a rational thought is a threat to the collectivist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxD-5z_xH...

    You asked about wages. Remember that Rearden paid his workers more than the going rate and he had the cream of the crop working for him. They traded value for value.

    Just my 2 cents.
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  • Posted by $ johnrobert2 11 years, 3 months ago
    I echo Mike's welcome to you. While Mike and I often disagree on many items, we (I hope) still maintain a healthy respect for the other's views. Like sibling rivalry, sort of. All the questions you pose can only be answered by study, thought and polite discourse. And only to your satisfaction by your own efforts. Good luck on the journey.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years, 3 months ago
    Greetings stadler178,
    Your words are pleasing to the ear. You are embarking upon a path many of us have tread before you. The path is not yet worn enough and your presence is welcome.

    Respectfully,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by Snoogoo 11 years, 3 months ago
    I liked your post a lot because I am also an ex JW. I think the message is appealing to many people like us because it is the complete opposite of what we were forced to think growing up. That being said, I think that a lot of the hatred you speak of is a reaction provoked by the realization that everything that has been indoctrinated into them is wrong. Those who fear hate reality, those who think embrace it.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 3 months ago
    Hey, thanks for the thoughts. Of course I certainly wasn't suggesting the intellectually lazy route of just having everyone else answer my questions without having to bother to do the work on my own. I just wanted to hear some thoughts. I do have a feeling that my own efforts to learn more will be the ones that yield the most satisfying answers (as they have so far, particularly in the process of awakening from a destructive cult).

    I guess on some level maybe I am like Stadler, minus the horrible weapon-building, but...I don't know. His character got really troubling towards the end of that story. I feel more of a connection to Rearden, as I'd be more like the person who already 'gets it' but is still kind of holding out hope that there's something worth fighting for.

    Oh...I guess I should add that I certainly haven't met anyone who would be my 'Dagny' of sorts, so in that sense, I'm not like Hank...

    Anyway, I wanted to thank you all for responding. I'd be a producer on the site, but I honestly haven't been on it that much and the timing has to be just right in the rare moments I actually have extra money to contribute. But I'm glad to get a sense that maybe people do 'get it' about Atlas Shrugged.

    Funny. Just this past summer I happened to be staying someplace where a statue of Atlas was right outside the window. I couldn't help but hear Esai Morales as Francisco reciting that speech. It was pretty inspirational. Serves as a reminder of what I need to do, what code I need to fully embrace. Thanks again!
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  • Posted by jyokela 11 years, 2 months ago
    "With all that said, I still wonder, when do we decide to help our fellow man? Aren't there some who cannot exist by trade alone, for whatever reason?"

    Private charities, family, and friends would be the main places to seek aid. However, if my money was not already being stolen to give to the poor(er), I would be more willing to help a stranger. I would probably want to sit down and have a talk with them to try to find out their philosophy and that they are a good person first. In general, if my neighbor's house burns down and we are friendly, then I would want to help him out whether it be that he sleeps on my couch or help him rebuild or just give him cash. I think that when we see good people have bad things happen that were out of their control, we want to help them. Obviously, I would only give what I can afford because I don't want to sacrifice myself. If I have to not go out to eat this month to save some money to help a friend, it is really not a sacrifice if the friend is of value to you and brings you joy. It is the idea that "my money for charity has been stolen from me by the government, so go get it from them" that has caused the USA to be at its least charitable in history.
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  • Posted by lmsfinally 11 years, 3 months ago
    Hey Stadler, if you're on Facebook, head over the Ayn Rand International group. We talk about Rand a lot there. I agree with most of the other replies here. When people are threatened they lash out no on content, but on raw emotion. Think of how many people would be called out on who they really are if people stood up and recognized who the moochers and looters really are. Sure, it's the neverending welfare recipients, but it's also those people who hold power over others who are too weak to leave for fear.

    Return of the Primitive is actually my favorite nonfiction of Rand's and it's not really a hard read. I also recommend in a year go back and re-read Atlas Shrugged. I've read it 4 solid times cover to cover (and bits and pieces I've tagged) over the last 20 years and every time I do, I see more. It can become a force in your life if you let it. It has in mine.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago
    Welcome aboard. Thanks for sharing your ideas. It makes a difference. You will have to find out most of those answers for yourself, but they have been addressed. Take greed. I mean just accepting it on the terms offered without questioning the deeper roots -- which is better: laissez faire where no one's greed has political power and everyone's greeds all cancel out? Or any and every political system known where greed gets guns? Just sayin...

    The deeper issue of greed as a virtue is something else, entirely.

    You seem to have some life experience that will serve you well as you discover the works of Ayn Rand.

    Allow me to suggest that even if Ayn Rand is just another philosopher like Popper or Russell or Wittgenstein, then (as you asked), why the hatred for her ideas? No one gets worked up over the other philosophers.

    If she is just a minor author again, why care? Maybe Jacqueline Suzanne and Joyce Carol Oates are great or maybe they are trash or maybe in the middle, but no one launches Huffington Post rants to denounce them. You gotta wonder why.
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