The Fair Tax

Posted by CarrieK 12 years, 2 months ago to Government
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So what do you all think of this http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?p... ?


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  • Posted by JeanPaulZodeaux 12 years, 2 months ago
    It is oxymoronic to refer to any tax as "fair". Fair has nothing to do with taxation. Taxation is a necessary source of revenue for government nothing more. "Income" taxation has always been odious and existing in perpetuity, "income" taxation is flat out evil, but even if a limited "income" tax were passed with a clear and definite end to it, it still would not be "fair".

    The problem with equating taxation with fair is that it suggests that there is some kind of even exchange between government and people by this notion. The only good government is self government and it appears as if humanity is far from any hopes of self government.

    The Constitution for the United States of America is a great document for many reasons, and while it has certain flaws (the "three-fifths clause" as just one example) for the most part this document stands as a profound indictment on government. Certainly the Bill of Rights exists as a part of that indictment and what the indictment is a charge that government cannot be trusted to do the right thing.

    If we are even going to come close to determining what might be a "fair" tax I would suggest that tax is a tax where only those liable for the tax pay the tax as opposed to the remarkable mess that is Title 26 where no one, and I mean absolutely no one seems to understand a thing about that tax code. What is the subject of the so called "Personal Income Tax"? This is a question that any fair minded person would ask, isn't it? What is the subject of the tax? Few ask such a question and far too many make far too many erroneous assumptions about how the so called "income tax" functions.

    Outside of "income" taxation, there are other indirect taxes that may appear to have the characteristic of "fair" but as Chief Justice once stated; "The power to tax is the power to destroy", and there are many examples of Congress' taxation that did precisely that. The 1993 luxury tax on Yachts is a prime example as what was heralded as a "fair" tax where supposedly the rich would "finally" start paying their "fair" share of taxes, but as it is with all indirect taxes, the yachting tax was defeatable and the rich simply had to decline to purchase yachts in America and buy them elsewhere or just not buy one at all. Subsequently, Viking Yachts, America's largest manufacturer of yachts, closed two plant and laid off 1,140 of its 1,400 employees only eight months after the luxury tax was imposed. Now, how fair was that?
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 12 years, 2 months ago
    I am not a fan for 5 reasons:

    1) It provides a popular way for congress to add this sales tax without removing the other taxes. We have never seen this happen before, so it wont happen this time.

    2) It has deductions/credits for the poor

    3) Corporations would be paying taxes upon purchase of goods but would also still have corporate taxes.

    4) Investors will still pay capital gains tax, but would also be taxed on what they bought. We want to leave capital investment alone, this fact would discourage it.

    5) Self Employment Tax would need to be removed as well. Today we charge people 15% for being employed by themselves verses working for someone else. This tax discourages entrepreneurship and would still be in place.

    2-5 show this to be an unfair tax. It has potential to be fair. If you replaced all forms of federal taxation with a single fixed rate sales tax with no deductions or credits that would be fair. It would tax all people based of their spending anything short of this, is not fair but favors some group,

    If a system starts out with ways to favor anyone it will soon end up with ways to favor everyone which is not fair to anyone or for anyone and creates a system of favors rather than equality.
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    • Posted by 12 years, 2 months ago
      If the other taxes are not removed, then it isn't the Fair Tax. It has a "pre-bate" for everyone, not just the poor. Corporations will not pay corporate taxes and do not pay taxes on items that go into making their product under the fair tax scheme. The consumer of the end product pays the tax once. Used goods are not taxed. Investors will not be taxed on the purchase of stocks, options or other investment tools and there will be no capital gains tax. Self-employment tax will also be removed under the scheme. Might want to give it another read.

      You are right that it is unlikely to happen, but if implemented the way it is described on their website, I think it is very fair. Tired of millionaires and billionaires using every little loophole in the tax code to pay a smaller percentage than the average Joe? Problem solved. Tired of illegals working and living here and not contributing to the system? Problem solved. Tired of living frugally and saving money just to give it back in taxes? Problem solved.
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      • Posted by XenokRoy 12 years, 2 months ago
        Perhaps I should have been more clear. It will never be implemented the way it is on the site. It will be added in, rather than replace others if its pushed. Unless congress and the government have some very large changes occur at least.

        The few times this has come up in congress it quickly becomes a replacement for income tax only leaving all other taxes in place.

        You are correct however that if this did replace all other federal taxes as the site lays out it would be fair.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 7 months ago
    Neal Boortz, a recently retired talk show host, was one of the early leaders in the Fair Tax movement. His successor, Herman Cain, ran for president, before becoming Boortz' successor.

    I know Herman Cain had been a Federal Reserve member, but for the briefest of moments, his 999 program toward implementing a fair tax looked like it had a shot. Cain actually won a straw poll of Republican party big shots in Florida during Jan. or Feb. of 2012. Cain would have been a better vehicle for accomplishing this than most because of his having been CEO of Godfather's Pizza and an African American conservative. I thought he had a legitimate shot, but his time spent with a woman other than his wife brought him down. Whether he did anything with the other woman or not, it still brought him down. There are some similarities here to Hank Rearden. I realize Cain is no Hank Rearden, but for an actual human being instead of a fictional character, he was better than most.
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  • Posted by BambiB 12 years, 2 months ago
    I'd rather see the personal income tax eliminated and replaced with NOTHING!

    The problem is NOT an insufficient amount of tax revenue. The problem is too much government spending.

    Slash the budget by 85%-90% (that is, eliminate the unconstitutional spending), and you can eliminate the income tax right along with it.

    The last thing we need is a new tax.
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  • Posted by PalmDesertWriter 12 years, 2 months ago
    Basically a National Sales Tax, the Liberals will do all they can to crush it. A "Fair" Tax should be exactly that - everyone who buys anything pays it. But Liberals just can't handle REAL fairness.
    It would mean all those folks who pay no taxes at all (What's fair about that?) would have to start paying their REAL share.
    That's why the Liberals won't let it happen.
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