The conept of "white collar crime" as anti-capitalist hammer

Posted by WDonway 11 years, 2 months ago to Philosophy
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David Kelley: "Thank you, Roger, for a fabulous talk." Yes, it is the stuff of legend.

If you advocate laissez faire capitalism, if you join Ayn Rand in opposing the greatest persecution of a minority group in the country (big business), if you want to rise to defense of the great victims of anti-capitalist witch hunts, then you will not miss this brilliant, utterly original, deeply moving presentation. The point at which you will react with anger is when a questioner asks: What are you doing to get this message, this brilliant analysis, to a wider audience--and Roger and by implication the Atlas Society laugh off the question... David Kelley does rise and address this. Oh, may it be... As a start, in the name of justice, share this link...

SOURCE URL: http://www.atlassociety.org/as/white-collar-crime


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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 2 months ago
    Twenty percent of new companies fail because of fraud perpetrated by owners and top managers. People steal where they shop and more losses come from INTERNAL sources, than from customers. Also, people steal at their own level: stock clerks steal items; vice presidents steal budgets.

    White collar crime was differentiated to bring to light to the academic community that crime is not (just) tough guys on street corners stealing purses. That was a class-based, ideology driven view of working class people by people who were themselves not working class. They did not see criminality in their own peers and neighbors -- or in themselves.

    Academic fraud and misconduct in scientific research are also white collar crimes.
    1.20% of Scientists are Crooks here:
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2012/...

    2. Misconduct in Science and Research here:
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/...

    3. Forgery and Fraud in Numismatics here:
    http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2012/...
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    Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 2 months ago
    It took two sittings, but I finished the presentation with a few notes. Roger Donway is not a good speaker. He read a manuscript. He mumbled and swallowed key words. Also, he did not do well in the Q&A. I can relate to that. While I think that I am a good speaker and have videos to prove it, I do not think well on my feet. I need to prepare. So, I give him some margin, though, again, an accomplished public speaker would have been much better at that.

    More substantially, Roger Donway conflates several intellectual streams in misunderstanding the origins of the term"white collar crime" and its present application and misapplication. Let me say right off that he ignored - as the earliest researchers did - GOVERNMENT crime including both "state-sanctioned crime" and "state crime" itself. Criminologists now include those as white collar crimes.

    The importance of class cannot be overlooked in understanding the genesis of "white collar crime." Then as now the assumption was that crime is a problem of the lower classes, caused by poverty and a lack of civilizing education and control. Upper class people were assumed to be literally above crime, which is why the Sanford White Scandal and similar events commanded headlines. E. A. Ross, Edwin Sutherland, and others got criminology out of that presumption. Donway mentioned Ross's own racism regarding the Japanese. Again, at that time AS NOW many people assume that crime is racial: 60% of the men in prison are Black; obviously African-Americans tend toward crime. YOU as an Objectivist would argue through that logical fallacy, but many conservatives are given to it, even today. 100 years ago, it was considered scientific truth as published by Cesare Lombrusco and many others -- and TODAY some still seek "genetic" explanations, not all of which seem invalid, but which, nonetheless flatly contradict the strictly rationalist free-will theory of the "classical school" of crime. (I presented Ayn Rand's theory of Evasion as a more complete explanation of free will to my undergraduate senior class in criminology theory.)

    It is also true that Sutherland was not a professional criminologist when he first wrote his book. No one was. Famous scientists in previous ages held degrees in medicine, law, or theology, there being no such thing as a university degree in biochemistry.

    From about 1850, most police officers were political appointees rewarded for drumming up votes, which is why the police and voting booths are both organized by "precincts." The Era of Professional Policing began with August Vollmer at Berkeley, California. He got the University to create the first degree program in criminology, but, he of course, was nothing but an army veteran, not a professional criminologist.

    Donway confuses the role of academic sociology with the mechanisms of justice - something which they might also like to do. Even if no legal trial takes place, you yourself have every right and moral responsibility to identify a HARM when you discover one. "Taxation is theft" but no one goes to prison for it because no one comes to trial for it. But it is indeed a white collar state crime.

    In positing the "differential association" theory of crime, Roger Donway revealed - but without stating it explicitly - that Sutherland was only describing himself: he was socialized to be constrained. It is true by observation that children adopt the values of their homes. But not all do. Therein blossom many other theories - over 50 - to explain good people from bad homes and bad people from good ones.

    As for business trust and the ethos of reputation, I certainly take Donway's point - and his point of view. But regarding the other railroad presidents whom the railroad president would not trust, I know a similar story. Venture capitalist Tom Perkins was discussing an opportunity with his partner, Eugene Kleiner. Said Kleiner of the entrepreneur: "I would trust him with my life, but not with my money." You don't have to be a Christian socialist professor of sociology to get the message there.

    Contrary to Roger Donway, embezzlement and fraud were not always crimes. I cite a famous case I believe from 1805 in which a Bank of England employee accepted a 5-pound note from a depositor and put it in his pocket. The jury found him not guilty because the note was never actually the property of the Bank of England. So Parliament wrote a new law. Just to say...

    Also, Roger Donway opened by alluding to a claim that he implied was invalid about unsafe working conditions and the reformers of the Progressive Era. In fact, Ayn Rand suggested that offering an unsafe workplace would be a crime in a capitalist society whether or not an injury actually occurred. (See "Objectively Speaking" pg 213-214.)

    All in all, while I appreciate Roger Donway's minor thesis about the injustice of modern laws against so-called "insider trading" he failed to establish the foundation he sought.
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    • Posted by khalling 11 years, 2 months ago
      I listened to Mr. Donway's presentation and I thought it was well-organized, concise, and cogent.
      your arguments conflate Mr. Donway's presentation with what YOU want to really talk about.
      I listened to the talk and did not have trouble understanding Mr. Donway at all.
      I'm trying to follow your arguments but they're all over the map here.
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      Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 2 months ago
      Just an addendum on business law and history in general. We too easily project ourselves on the past. Until the "Carriers Case" of 1473 in which the King's Star Chamber took a perhaps unconstitutional upper hand, it was not a crime for a carrier to break open a shipment and sell out of it. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier'...)
      That might seem odd, but, consider that the folkways of commerce were different then.

      This ultimately impacts our presumptions about "intellectual property" in the information age, as our laws about that all derive directly from laws about land in the Middle Ages.
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      • Posted by khalling 11 years, 2 months ago
        to the 2nd point:On IP in the information age: not a presumption but reality. Modern IP is an understanding of Locke's recognition that all property rights are a result of creation, rather than govt grants or fiat.
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          Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 2 months ago
          Baloney. If that were true, then two people who independently invented the same thing could hold two independent patents. In fact, the USPTO and all the other government offices in the world grant EXCLUSIVE rights to just one inventor, no matter how many people create a new realization.
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          • Posted by khalling 11 years, 2 months ago
            what does this point have to do with what I said? you are confusing creation of an invention with creation of a specific instance of the invention. all property rights are exclusive. This is what a property right is. This is consistent with Locke. Just because I re-discover Calculus does not make me the discoverer. Do not say "Baloney" to my serious comments again.
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              Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 2 months ago
              More baloney. Consider Newton and Leibnitz perhaps the most famous cas of dual discovery. And you know that you cannot patent calculus, even though the USPTO grants patents to algorithms today. You confuse "discovery" with "invention."

              You cannot create your own land. You can create your own automobile.

              Since the 18th century people experimented with automobiles. Any competent mechanic who saw Daimler or Ford would be inspired to make one their own. If property rights depended solely on creation, none of the current laws would apply.
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              • Posted by khalling 11 years, 2 months ago
                I carefully used the word discovery instead of invention. To assume I am confused, is both obnoxious and shows you aren't really interested, you just want to be contrary.
                I do not suggest that discoveries or inventions cannot have near simultaneous conceptions, but only the first is the discover or the inventor.
                In the case of Newton and Leibnitz, Newton was clearly the initial discoverer, but Leibnitz discovered other parts of calculus and created the formalism. It would be a mistake to suggest that either of them discovered everything we know about Calculus today. Your example only proves my point.
                The invention is separate from an instance of the invention. The inventor is the creator of the invention. The person building an instance of the invention is the owner of that version, however the inventor has right in that as well. No different than songs, movies.
                Finally, ownership in land comes from the fact that you improved the land (see the Homestead Act). In making an auto, you aren't making your own iron ore, coal, natural rubber, etc. Everything is made from something.
                Mathematical theories vs "algorithms": I assume you are referring to software here. I have posted on the validity of software patents several times. The Supreme Court is clear one cannot patent algorithms. These patent law issues are complicated and in flux at this time.
                This has nothing to do with Roger Donway's Atlas Summit presentation and so I will not comment further on this post regarding invention vs discovery.
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