A Refutation of Primitivism
Posted by rbroberg 7 years, 8 months ago to Philosophy
Anarcho-Primitivism is anti-Objectivist to the fullest extent and anti-life to the extent that human beings are rational. The quandary is that if irrationality is making a comeback, even compounding upon itself as irrationality for the sake of irrationality, then who is to stop this from occurring? Which is to ask: To what extent is my selfishness bound up in lifting up people's minds for their betterment and therefore my own? Let me address these one by one.
Anarcho-Primitivism is the philosophic identification with pre-historic social systems. Hunter gatherer societies are the preference in this school of thought. But it was not a "primitive" man who expressed anarcho-primitivism and devised its tenets. He was instead a literate man. The view that the alteration of the natural world is negative stems from a kind of combination of Parmenides' belief that change is impossible and of Heraclitus' belief that opposites have a common base. The latter can be seen in both Marx and Nietzsche. The importation of these pre-Socratic views is a vivid illustration of how the intellectual world has willingly contributed to and sought out its own demise.
Objectivism teaches that the pinnacle of ancient thought was Aristotle and it is true that his philosophical achievements established the foundation for Rand's successive philosophic system. The enshrinement of reason is no mistake, it is absolutely necessary to expose the various Platonic and pre-Socratic mistakes attributable to modern philosophers. "To expose" and not to assuage because to assuage or placate is to compromise on principles in this context. The task of the intellectual confronted with the specter of these errors, which in this era should rightly be ascribed to their doers as deliberate, is indeed to expose and remove (cut out) irrationality from the appearance of rationality, i.e. to sever the rotten roots rationalism (i.e. rational idealism).
Regarding the last question, the motivation and goal-directed action determine the specific goals of a rational person. With the realization that Objective thought leads to philosophical, intellectual, and scientific growth, our selfish interest out to be a better world. The argument against this is "I cannot benefit beyond my lifespan". He who has perished cannot experience the wonders and miracles of future enlightenment, so to speak. Yet this view of selfishness is completely solipsistic. Do not make the mistake of Bernie Madoff. The view that immediate material reward for work is the proper definition of selfishness is NOT ACCURATE. Howard Roark worked years to perfect his craft and eventually destroyed it in order to claim it. He worked for the sake of his craft and his love of it in the same way that John Galt thought for the sake of life and his love of it. The bridge on the John Galt Line would have lasted well into the next century.
The argument against selfishness is that impermanence reduces life to meaningless robotics of reproduction of death. Since all men are mortal, then selfishness demands there is no reason to care for the world beyond one's own existence. Therefore, altruism - living for the sake of others - is the only recourse because some invisible chain linking the lives of those who sacrificed themselves to others lives on in our place. This is the god of the altruists. Yet it is clear that if each person sacrifices himself to the next, then each of the members of the human race has done so in a circle of self-sacrifice benefitting no entity but the invisible chain or god or whatever else. But this impersonal god then lives on the human sacrifice, which must be a mistake since God is supposed to be merciful and just. It is impossible to conceive of a merciful and just God that also requires every man to sacrifice himself to the interest of others while denying himself the benefit of receiving the good, even from himself!
Im summation, rationalism required supernaturalism in order to maintain the premise that consciousness precedes existence. Modernism required collectivism in order to maintain the premise that altruism trumps selfishness. Thus altruism and primacy of consciousness are corollaries. Both require the defaulting on or stealing of the concept of objective reality. This is ample argument to disprove Marx and therefore also Heraclitus. Parmenides and Heraclitus has opposite views on change and yet each of these views are smuggled into Anarcho-Primitivism. In this way, Anarcho-Primitivism, like most forms of mysticism, is without a coherent, reducible, hierarchical systematization of concepts and must therefore lead to contradictory results. Contradictions cannot exist and reality does exist, therefore, contradictory results are false. It is not a contradiction to work for a better world after we die, so long as it is in one's own rational interest.
Anarcho-Primitivism is the philosophic identification with pre-historic social systems. Hunter gatherer societies are the preference in this school of thought. But it was not a "primitive" man who expressed anarcho-primitivism and devised its tenets. He was instead a literate man. The view that the alteration of the natural world is negative stems from a kind of combination of Parmenides' belief that change is impossible and of Heraclitus' belief that opposites have a common base. The latter can be seen in both Marx and Nietzsche. The importation of these pre-Socratic views is a vivid illustration of how the intellectual world has willingly contributed to and sought out its own demise.
Objectivism teaches that the pinnacle of ancient thought was Aristotle and it is true that his philosophical achievements established the foundation for Rand's successive philosophic system. The enshrinement of reason is no mistake, it is absolutely necessary to expose the various Platonic and pre-Socratic mistakes attributable to modern philosophers. "To expose" and not to assuage because to assuage or placate is to compromise on principles in this context. The task of the intellectual confronted with the specter of these errors, which in this era should rightly be ascribed to their doers as deliberate, is indeed to expose and remove (cut out) irrationality from the appearance of rationality, i.e. to sever the rotten roots rationalism (i.e. rational idealism).
Regarding the last question, the motivation and goal-directed action determine the specific goals of a rational person. With the realization that Objective thought leads to philosophical, intellectual, and scientific growth, our selfish interest out to be a better world. The argument against this is "I cannot benefit beyond my lifespan". He who has perished cannot experience the wonders and miracles of future enlightenment, so to speak. Yet this view of selfishness is completely solipsistic. Do not make the mistake of Bernie Madoff. The view that immediate material reward for work is the proper definition of selfishness is NOT ACCURATE. Howard Roark worked years to perfect his craft and eventually destroyed it in order to claim it. He worked for the sake of his craft and his love of it in the same way that John Galt thought for the sake of life and his love of it. The bridge on the John Galt Line would have lasted well into the next century.
The argument against selfishness is that impermanence reduces life to meaningless robotics of reproduction of death. Since all men are mortal, then selfishness demands there is no reason to care for the world beyond one's own existence. Therefore, altruism - living for the sake of others - is the only recourse because some invisible chain linking the lives of those who sacrificed themselves to others lives on in our place. This is the god of the altruists. Yet it is clear that if each person sacrifices himself to the next, then each of the members of the human race has done so in a circle of self-sacrifice benefitting no entity but the invisible chain or god or whatever else. But this impersonal god then lives on the human sacrifice, which must be a mistake since God is supposed to be merciful and just. It is impossible to conceive of a merciful and just God that also requires every man to sacrifice himself to the interest of others while denying himself the benefit of receiving the good, even from himself!
Im summation, rationalism required supernaturalism in order to maintain the premise that consciousness precedes existence. Modernism required collectivism in order to maintain the premise that altruism trumps selfishness. Thus altruism and primacy of consciousness are corollaries. Both require the defaulting on or stealing of the concept of objective reality. This is ample argument to disprove Marx and therefore also Heraclitus. Parmenides and Heraclitus has opposite views on change and yet each of these views are smuggled into Anarcho-Primitivism. In this way, Anarcho-Primitivism, like most forms of mysticism, is without a coherent, reducible, hierarchical systematization of concepts and must therefore lead to contradictory results. Contradictions cannot exist and reality does exist, therefore, contradictory results are false. It is not a contradiction to work for a better world after we die, so long as it is in one's own rational interest.
Interesting read.
The only rational interest, at least as far as I'm concerned, to achieve anything lasting beyond my lifetime is the lives of my offspring and their continued well being.
I take great pleasure from my writings and my game production but I'm sure not getting rich off my novels. In time perhaps my writings will amount to something more than a a few dinners out every month but for now I'm content for the personal satisfaction and a good slice or bottle of wine. :)
Successive of Aristotle.
I do not understand how answering the question "what language did hunter gatherers speak" is relevant.
The pre-Socratics did on occasion struggle with mystical supernaturalism pervading their views. Pythagoreanism incorporated ascetic ideals, emphasizing purgation and metempsychosis. I supposed philosopher cat, in her professionalism, does not except Wikipedia as a source of "scholarship"?
I am still having trouble with your sentences, what does "does not except Wikipedia" mean?
For scholarship after you have found it on Wikipedia try the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. You will be advancing into the world of scholarship when you go to the references at the end of both and actually see where the facts and debates are in time and structure. Try writing and submitting a paper to a journal for some feedback.
I would be interested in the actual practice of Objectivism in its relation to meeting a person of unknown philosophy. Since Objectivism has ruled much of my life over many years, I find myself interested in others of the same philosophy, particularly how they act upon meeting strangers, and how they act upon meeting notables.
In the Valley, when asked what she would say to all those prior heroes were she to meet them in some afterlife paradise, Dagny said, "Thanks." What else can you say? And that is what I say when I meet a notable. Here (and elsewhere in O-land), even when I disagree, I start off by thanking other people for their work.
As far as things that last beyond our life like the Galt Line bridge, the stream of financial benefits could be amortized into a present value and sold into one big payment for the people who invested in the project. In the case of Roark's building, he didn't want money or fame from it. He just liked the building, had it been built according to his plans. I thought he liked it for himself and didn't care what happened to it after he died. I may be wrong about that.
Similar to amortizing future benefits into our lifetime, if we do something that incurs cost on people in the future, the people incurring them need to pay those amortized costs. Being dead when the effects of the theft are realized or not being able to quantify the costs with absolute certitude does not make the theft moral.
For me, the primary books on ancient Greek philosophy are the Loeb Classic Library dual language editions. In the original Greek, Aristotle's statement of Non-Contradiction is somewhat "blockier" or "chunkier" than we render it today. Our powerful English language is 2500 years more advanced than classical Greek.
For whatever the ancient philosophers claimed, I look to Diogenes Laertius's Lives. For the pre-Socratics, Hermann Diels's Fragmente der Vorsokratiker was updated and translated into English by Kathleen Freeman. Realize that all we have is fragments. Much ancient writing was lost. To gauge how extensive the Christian revolution was, the emperor Claudius wrote a history of the Etruscan people and apparently knew their language. The language and his multi-volume history are both lost to us. If a book written by the first citizen of Rome did not survive, imagine how much more was lost. Most of what we know about Parmenides, Heraclitus, Thales, et al., is second- or third-hand.
That said, I found basic truths in much of what remains. Parmenides said that the universe had no creator because something cannot come from nothing. Yes, there are many errors, but we do not condemn Benjamin Franklin for writing about electrical "fluid." It was the model that worked for them at that time. So, too, with the ancient Greeks. As much as we admire Aristotle - mostly because of Ayn Rand - realize that we know only reconstructions of his works. When the successors of Alexander fought over his empire, the Macedonian ruling family seized the books (scrolls) of Aristotle, and buried them for safe-keeping. When they were uncovered, they had been eaten by worms. The texts were riddled, and had to be reconstructed. That is why even the best translations we have such as the set by McKeon that Ayn Rand preferred have all those footnotes about possible alternatives.
Thanks, also, for taking to task our collective worship of the hunter-gatherer. Many Rand Fans believe that we should return to that condition, if only in some modern way, hunting with machine-made guns and wearing machine-made clothing while stalking deer. The City (civilization) is different from that. (And it is not agriculture, either. Agriculture was invented in the city, not the other way around. See The Economy of Cities by Jane Jacobs.)
To the contrary, Greek adheres to these basic fundamentals very well. There are words which are similar, but each different word has a distinct connotation: epimainw vs perimainw for example (really wish I could figure out how to get the actual Greek characters in here). The diction is distinct with a minimum of duplication (note: Modern Greek has mushed many of the vowel sounds together into "e" where in the ancient they were distinct) and the grammar rules have a minimum of exceptions - mostly caused by modern slurring.
Just because something is newer doesn't automatically make it better. (I tell this to my CIO all the freaking time when he asks about updates.) In language, age typically dumbs down a language - not enhances it. For a classic example, simply read several of the Federalist Papers. You don't see correspondence like that today because much of the richness in vocabulary in the English language has been abandoned by simply not being taught.
See my comments below to you and blarman.
I would also note that this word psyche predates the Greeks conversion to the Christianity offered by Constantine; it was not a religiously-inspired word. The real question (as you note from De Anima) pondered by Greeks including Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle (in that order chronologically) was how to explain the difference between a "living" person and a "dead" one.
Polis is similarly an interesting word in Greek because the connotation there is more than just a group of people conducting business, but about a way of life - a philosophy as it were. To truly be a citizen of a city one had to embrace the philosophy and political nature of that city. Americans have a very difficult time understanding that to most other cultures, religion is deeply ingrained in everything they do. It isn't casual: one doesn't simply turn it on for a few hours on Sunday and spend the rest of the week doing whatever one wants. (If you want to see the true extent, try going to Greece and getting anything out of a government office; they're closed 2 days out of every five for religious holidays. You'll laugh, but I'm not kidding.)
ALso Arisstotle studied the constitutions of Greek Polis even though we only have the text of Athens. But the Greeks created city government without the words to compare and contrast the various ideas.
Norway is also a country which has a religious infusion through its culture and politics. Imagine trying to change a Parliament, a King, and GOD. That's why there is pessimism about change. Thanks for the comments. Two days for religious holidays, Greek Orthodox?
"Its not psyche which can be translated as psychology."
I'll politely disagree based on personal and cultural knowledge (and my Greek dictionary). To the Greeks, they are one and the same word and meaning. It is the English who have put their own spin on the matter and tried to render the study of the soul to a soulless art. There is a wholly different word: nou which is used to specifically refer to the cognitive mind.
"He concluded ... Its biological not mental."
Again, I'll disagree (see comment above). What Socrates, Plato and Aristotle - Aristotle being the third generation - all pondered was the force behind the material. And contrary to what modern philosophers like to call it, it was spiritual to them - just not in a Christian religious sort as the word is commonly used now. Biology is the study of the living or living things from a technical standpoint while psychology is much more ephemeral and philosophical (psychological being the appropriate word as philosophy is broken down to be the study of the interaction between people - filos being the word for a friend). The question they pondered over and over again is what caused the true death of an individual? Was there more to it than a simply biological interaction? I would also note that none of the three were atheists according to how we use that word today. Socrates found logical problems with the Greek Pantheon and could only rationalize a single god. For his heresy he was condemned to drink hemlock. Plato argued against the Greek Pantheon in Republic in favor of a singular deity. The Epicureans are really the last of any surviving Greek philosophy but they started to go sideways IMHO. That's kind of where traditional Greek philosophy trails off and is replaced by Constantine's Christianity.
"Two days for religious holidays, Greek Orthodox?"
Yup. It would vary from week to week, of course, but I'd average things out to two in five. Easter was the whole week, but every day of the year was some Saint's day with its associated catechism (though catechism is more a Roman Catholic notion).
Let me politely disagree with your sense that the two words are the same. In "Essays on Aristotle's De Anima" there are several entire essays on the importance of how Aristotle used the two words pointing out the difference in ancient Greek and in the context in which the words are used. clearly shows the difference. He believes the soul (psuche) is what animates the body. Not what the brain does. When death occurs the body decays and it cannot be reversed. . Chris Shield translated it and wrote a long commentary also see Lennox and Gothelff on Aristotle's biology. Psyche and Psuche have different referents in reality.
Wish I spoke Greek.
I also have a project on Greek sailing and trading as the reason for language formation.
Best.
"He believes the soul (psuche) is what animates the body."
That was precisely what I was arguing as well. You seemed to intimate that it was not a "spiritual" force, however, which runs very contrary to my personal experience with the Greeks' own use of the word and their culture. The rest comes down to who one finds to represent a greater authority: a scholar in an ivory tower or the people themselves. And we don't have to agree on that.
It was said, "P-hilo-so-p-hia."
P-s-u-X-eh, not pseeXee.
My daughter's name is Selene. Modern Greeks call her as if in English "Se-lee-nee" which is not how the ancients pronounced it.
See my comments to philosophercat below (https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...)
PS - one of my daughters has the middle name Selene. Did you select it from Greek or some other source?
I look to The Pronunciation and Reading of Ancient Greek: A Practical Guide by Stephen G. Daitz and The Living Voice of Greek and Latin by the same author.
Blarman is wrong about upsilon sounding like our English long-e (ee). It does now. It did not then. U and O were closer back then. And the P and S were separate sounds, enunciated separately.
Aphrodite was not "afro-die-tee" but A-p-h-ro-di-te. Psyche was not "pseeXe" but P-s-u-X-e.
I agree also that the Greeks were inventing new understandings for which they needed new words. Old words took on subtle shifts, such as ours have and do. "Silly" originally meant "soully" i.e., head in the clouds.
On that note... What we call the "Socratic" method, they called the Milesian Way after Aspasia of Miletos, who brought it to Athens and taught it to the guys at symposia.
See "Bringing Philosophy to Athens" on my blog here http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...
I understand the problems with English. Our vocabulary is more sophisticated by 2500 years. It is a fact: we have more concepts. I do grant that classical Greece was a time of changes when new words were invented.
See my other comments to you and philosophercat below.
See my review here http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...
"Moreover, even when the disasterous flooding of the 12th century created Holland's Zuiderzee, refugees swelled the population of Amsterdam, perhaps tripling it; but rather than starvation, want, and poverty, the city enjoyed prosperity and vibrant trade and commerce."
And here:
http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...
"We are literally a bourgeois (burgher) society, a nation of cities. That is also the underlying thesis in Jane Jacobs’s The Economy of Cities."