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The StingRay Is Exactly Why the 4th Amendment Was Written

Posted by Jackson 7 years, 9 months ago to Government
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I always imagined this device exists but now I feel like it's being used more often than I first believed. Thoughts? The use of the device seems legal but I can see how it can easily get out of control where the rights of US citizens are being abused.
SOURCE URL: https://fee.org/articles/the-stingray-is-exactly-why-the-4th-amendment-was-written/


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    Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 9 months ago
    I agree that using the StingRay without a warrant is a violation of the Fourth Amendment.
    In fact, that nosy take it all in device may violate the Fourth Amendment even with a warrant issued.
    Welcome to The Gulch, Jackson.
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  • 10
    Posted by edweaver 7 years, 9 months ago
    Not sure how this can be legal. It's wiretapping without the wires.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 9 months ago
      Yes. I think part of this comes from there being no expectation of privacy in public. The police are free to hire someone to follow someone around all the time. The framers of the Constitution took it as obvious that it would be impossible to hire someone to follow everyone all the time in public. Now we can. I don't think the no-expectation of privacy in public should apply to mass surveillance. Watching signals from phones, though, is so valuable I think they'll have to find a way to save that data in a vault that can only be opened with a warrant stating exactly what things are to be searched as the Fourth Amendment requires. We are not now respecting the spirit or even the letter of the Fourth Amendment.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 9 months ago
    The Stingray is only one illustration of a much larger problem: the "third party doctrine" in Fourth Amendment law, which allows government to grab your private information from companies you've entrusted it to without warrants.

    We need to appoint some justices who recognize that you still have a strong property right in data you've entrusted to fiduciaries. And that not only communications service providers but also people like your bank and utilities (whom you've told where you live and possibly some things about your finances, but who have no business sharing that info without your consent or a warrant) are in that category.

    Make this an accepted part of the common law and a lot of overpolicing can be reined in.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 9 months ago
    So one observation: the device lies in order to collect personal information, and the People are supposed to be okay with that? I can't see how this is legal at all...
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 9 months ago
    I read about fake cell towers some years ago...was called a conspiracy monger for bringing it up to see if anyone knew something I didn't.

    I have a cheap flip phone, it is Off, 99.9% of the time and most times in a metal box as well...if that turns out to be not enough, I'll pull the battery.
    Purely Innocent occurrences are often used as damming evidence these days. Especially if your on the wrong political side.
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  • Posted by chad 7 years, 9 months ago
    In a free society there should be expectation of privacy no matter where you are. There is no such place as 'public' except as described in 'the law' that is currently used to excuse the excess of monitoring. No data should be collected by the government at any time on private citizens unless there is a sufficient reason to do so which needs to be supplied first. When the government is able to determine what is public and what is private it will determine everything is public and therefore your right to be secure in your person, property and papers doesn't apply anywhere.
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  • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 9 months ago
    Good find, and very disturbing. We keep walking the line between the Liberal Loons and the Righteous Right, and both want to hammer at our personal freedom and privacy. Time to make crypto mainstream...
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  • Posted by Riftsrunner 7 years, 9 months ago
    So far every story I have read about cases involving these stingray boxes have either claimed a warrant was used and the incriminating info was accidentally captured or it was third-party activated. Our only hope is the new apps and crypto-phones that are coming to the market to thwart them, however, I have also seen mention of a federal agency attempting to get them declared illegal as a preemptive prevention.
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