One more thing...the movie poster between Dave and Chris...is that from The Hangman by any chance?

First I didn't watch this movie (yet).
Read Francisco's Money speech in Atlas. PLEASE. You guys said SO many things in this review that I wanted to discuss (I'm sure kh will say the same thing) that I was going crazy over here listening. I'll keep it short. You guys are smart! You KNOW there's something wrong and you want to know what it is. You know "nice" people who support Obama (AHHH!). This is all in the gulch and being discussed and we have some answers. We could recommend books to read (not just Atlas either), that will make things clearer and help you explain it to others. There are SO many things going on in this country at once it IS hard to keep up, but it's ALL herding us to the same place.
Okay...hoppin' off my soap box. :)
Great talk guys! :) (Nice to see the 3 of you back together.)

I haven't seen the movie. I HATE horror films, but I'm going to watch it.
Dave and Chris said some things I wanted to respond to. In the discussion about alliances with others, why does an alliance necessarily have to mean to another's detriment? in business, if two businesses align against another in the spirit of competition, this may prove to initially be a setback, but there are always ways to take advantage of unknown opportunities. Completion in a capitalistic marketplace is fierce, unpredictable at times, but hugely predictable at other times. Although there are always those with the goal of "getting ahead of others" there are also those with the goal of "to succeed, wish others success as well" after all, the more succeeding at virtuous endeavors, the more benefits for all. So, I leave you with a question to ponder, does everyone have to be greedy if they are successful?
to Dave's comment about a Darwinian principle. Darwin's principles are about species, not about individual animals within the species. Big difference.
Although Man is part of the animal Kingdom, he is the ONLY rational animal. Adapted may not be about killing another species. Think about it. You're going to be in trouble if you kill off all of your food sources. Man's existence is not a zero sum game. In order for me to get +1, does not mean you will -1. This goes directly to the heart of wealth (which is defined as those things necessary to survival or increase chances of survival). There is not a fixed amount in the world just transferring back and forth between men. Wealth is created and there is no top limit. Cooperation between humans is rational and in everyone's best interest, see David Ricardo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ricar...
thanks for the thought provoking discussion as usual!