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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 10 years, 5 months ago
    I sort of liked the amusing correlation, until the last paragraph. The last paragraph is evidence this article is just a "please believe in what I believe in" article, not a serious argument.
    Once you argue that carbon emission bans and healthcare for all are somehow other necessary tenets of civilization you have exposed yourself as just another "believer", only to be distinguished from religious believers by the economic consequences of the rules you want to institute from your beliefs, versus the relatively minor social rules they want.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
      Yes. All those things are at least somewhat controversial. It makes no sense for him to say people are denied all the great benefits of a set of political opinions b/c they belief in religion. Maybe they don't those things (progressive taxation, "sensible" gun laws, etc) for other reasons. The author buys the narrative they really do want them but people are manipulating their religion. Maybe that's true sometimes, but the author makes no case whatsoever for it and make the hasty assumption that they would want those things and benefit from them.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years, 5 months ago
    I do not personally believe this to be destructive or a myth. If you want morality in a society you must have religion.

    Now to clarify what religion is to me, its not the same thing to everyone so without that clarification a study such as this is flawed at best.

    First off the second definition for religion from Dictionary.com.

    Religion: A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

    By this definition a person who believes their to be no god, but believes in the power of science and that man can one day understand everything about how the worlds works has a religion.

    Religion is a set of moral values by which a person lives there lives and people with the same moral values gathering together to practice them. This site represents a form of religion.

    Many here may disagree with me and that is OK. But if you take away some core of moral value, some idea of right and wrong from society there is no society left. Without shared moral values you cannot have a cohesive society. With a shared moral value system you have some form of religion. Some are more loose than others, but it is there.

    Our founders wrote letters to each other refering to the religion of America Benjamin Franklin desribed it with these words "I believe in one god, the creator of the universe. THe the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its contact in this. These I take to be the fundamental point in all sound religion." - Letter to Ezra Stiles, president of Yale university

    At the time the 5 points he suggests here to points every sect in America agreed upon. Today it would be said differently as not everyone would agree upon the supreme creator.

    However the basic morals outlined by Franklin are 100% valid for America or any society to practice or we will fail. That use to come from organized god centered religion, or so people think. It is my view that the moral code must ultimately come from within each of us, and religion helped that to occur but ultimately people made the choice to have a moral code and follow it. Without that code a society will fail. Franklin outlined it well.
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    • Posted by MiJo 10 years, 5 months ago
      "If you want morality in a society you must have religion."

      I don't know that such is true. I DO know that religion is frequently used to perpetrate the most heinous of crimes. Spend a month in an Iron Maiden if you don't believe me.
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      • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years, 5 months ago
        A gun, a philosophy or a religion can be used to accomplish both good and evil. Religion, just like philosophy is not inharently good or evil. It is the minds of those that use it that use it for good or evil.

        A gun accomplishes much good in the world when used correctly by mind intent on doing good. Religion is no different.

        A core common value system is required for a society to be moral. Religion has been the source of that core common value system. I know of no replacement for it.

        To say that religion is used for evil is like saying political science is used for evil or a large corporation is used for evil. All of the above have done great good and great evil and great good.

        To blame the heinous crime on the religion is foolish. Its irrational and destructive. Is its religion fault that men used it to cease power and oppress people?

        Were now using science and technology to do the same. In less obvious or barbaric ways no real difference. You have no privacy, there is very little respect of personal choice or property. Every thing you say, do and every place you go recorded to be used against you if the powers that be want to do so. Its just using science to accomplish the same thing.

        There will always be those that want to build a society that allows them to use force to stay at the top of that society. Reguardless of the age and what weapon is available (psychology, philosophy, science, religion or politics) they will be used for freedom, property rights protection, liberty and the protection of life and the opposite. This has always been the case because some men choose to make it so (on both sides). The tools of the centuries change but the two sides remain the same.

        Without something that clearly defines what behaviors are desirable, praise worthy and to be sought after you have people seeking after nothing specifically. Religion provides to the masses a definition of what is desirable, praise worthy and to be sought after. So long as it leaves people with the choice to act on it of there own mind, it will be good to have around.
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        • -1
          Posted by MiJo 10 years, 5 months ago
          I wonder…

          What would you say if there was a lie - a flat-out lie - that if told to the people of the world would make them 5% happier? Would you say, "The end justifies the means" and perpetrate the lie? Or would you say, "Dishonesty is immoral" and work to undermine it?

          Try these lies as test cases:

          1) Government loves you and only has your best interests at heart.
          2) God loves you and has only your best interests at heart.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
        There are all sorts of things that are used to perpetrate the most heinous of crimes. Been to North Korea lately? I don't think that they have any permitted religion there.
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  • Posted by $ EitherOr 10 years, 5 months ago
    I'm going to ask a question actually based on the article, without attacking the author or immediately tying political labels on things. Let's see how this goes...

    Report found:
    "clear majorities in all highly developed countries do not think belief in god to be necessary for morality, with one exception only: the USA."

    So if we use GDP per capita as a measure of development, the US is the highest-developed country in the study. Is this because capitalism combined with at least 50% "belief in god" creates a situation for success, or are we successful despite those 50%?

    In the first case the religious in America may act as a check on the GDP, keeping it at a stable (and high) point. In the second case, the economy thrives despite the correlation between GDP and religious belief. Thus America succeeds while dragging along the believes, as Rearden (early on) supports the moochers because he feels it's easy for him to do so.

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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 5 months ago
    "Interestingly, clear majorities in all highly developed countries do not think belief in god to be necessary for morality, with one exception only: the USA."

    "Only 15 percent of the French population answered in the affirmative. Spain: 19 percent. Australia: 23 percent. Britain: 20 percent. Italy: 27 percent. Canada: 31 percent. Germany 33 percent. Israel: 37 percent."

    All of these countries are Socialist. Socialism is a Religion. Morality is dictated by the State. The deeper the penetration into the society, the lower the percentage of people believing in a god/morality connection. France is arguably the most Socialist in Europe and has the lowest percentage. I'm willing to bet that same question asked in America 50 years ago would have been answered in the affirmative by 80% or higher.
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  • Posted by Lucky 10 years, 5 months ago
    That is an interesting graph on the Salon site. Unfortunately, it is from Pew so may be rigged, I'd like to see SaudiArabia, Switzerland and a few more countries on it.
    I agree with the proposition that belief in nonsense can be harmful. There is a hopeful sort of development in recent times where religious people can put such ideas into a compartment in life and function as rational except for a set of harmless rituals.
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    • Posted by MiJo 10 years, 5 months ago
      On the plus side, among the stupid, religion has the effect of creating a cosmic witness to all their criminality. At least in their own minds - which is what matters.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
      I agree. We often focus on the religious extremists, but most of them function normally, i.e. they don't hear voices telling them to tie up their kids and kill him or anything like that.
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  • Posted by bassboat 10 years, 5 months ago
    I read no mention of Reconstruction after the Civil War and how it impacted the South by setting it back decades in education. Here is a case for reparation if there ever has been one. I also read no mention of how the North has lost their vise grip hold on manufacturing to the South in automobile production. I read no mention of the lower cost of living in the South because it doesn't have the level of corruption that places like N.Y., Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, etc have. I read no mention of the fact that if the South is so bad then why do these pseudo intellectuals have to insist that their way, a $17 trillion debt, is so superior. All of the above plus a 100 other reasons make the South look pretty good. And oh, by the way, the secular are chasing the wind while faith is something that can save you.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
    Seriously, they think that it's news that a religious person believes that an atheist is living in sin? Isn't that basically the foundation of most religions? What of it? The more critical thing to understand is what are the advocated policies of the religion to those unbelievers. In most instances it is as benign as live and let live up to proselytize. In the case of Islam, it is eliminate them. Those are the ones you need to be concerned with.
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    • -1
      Posted by MiJo 10 years, 5 months ago
      The religion scam is usually perpetrated by offering you carrots - then erecting a barrier to leaving. The carrot may be "eternal life" or "social inclusion" or any number of psychological levers. The barrier is almost always a threat that you will lose things if you depart. In some cases, people are actually "cast out" to make them feel a desire to return and to threaten those who remain.

      I'm sure there are thousands of examples of psychological coercion in religion. By contrast, who has to be coerced to believe truth?
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 5 months ago
    Thanks! I followed the link to the original Pew report
    http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/03/13/worl...
    and if you goto page 2
    http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/03/13/worl...
    you can read their research methods.

    The discussion here so far exemplifies why facts do not matter. People tend to credit "experts" who agree with them and discredit those who do not, regardless of the facts presented. The test case was two sets of three artificially constructed university professors - same backgrounds, same level of work - but with essays slanted left and right. Conservatives and liberals both dismissed the credentials of the experts they disagreed with and touted the ponies they already bet on. (See here in the Gulch, "Why Evidence is Not Enough." http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/1b...

    As a criminologist, I noted this: "... atheists are thoroughly underrepresented in the places where rapists, thieves and murderers invariably end up: prisons. While atheists make upward of 15 percent of the U.S. population, they only make up 0.2 percent of the prison population." That was author Werleman's editorial insertion, not a conclusion from Pew. That being true, it remains also that many in prison find in religion the structure that their earlier lives lacked, which put them in prison in the first place.
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    • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 5 months ago
      Re: Mike Marotta,

      Based on your logic about atheist being under represented in the prison population we can also conclude that atheist are better criminals and avoid being caught.

      If you as a criminologist, if you were to make a thorough intellectually honest study of convicted criminals you might find that very few are in fact belivers in any religion especially christianity. They will of course claim to be quiorboys, one and all when standing before a judge.

      Fred Speckmann
      commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
        "They will of course claim to be quiorboys, one and all when standing before a judge."
        Mark Marotta said something similar to what you said--- maybe they find religion after they're caught. He just suggested a different possible reason. But you're both saying maybe people claim to find religion AFTER they're caught committing a crime.
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    • Posted by $ brd76 10 years, 5 months ago
      On the flip side to your assessment, it doesn't necessarily have to be religion which provides one structure in their life. Morals defined by a priest, for example, tend to often be violated by said priest. Many of the most hypocritical individuals I've known are of a faith; faith in god or faith in government. As far as I see it neither entity of man nor entity of spirit can serve my self interest better than I can myself. My point here is that it is possible to be moral and innocent of crime without serving a set of rituals prescribed by another.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 5 months ago
        brd76, I agree with you that the rehabilitation or reconition of criminals in prison _could_ (indeed, _should_) be without religion. We do not run things there. You goto a warden and tell him that you want to educate criminals with atheism and egoism and you will get laughed out of the office. It will be the best joke he's heard in years. Their view is that egoism defines the prisoners: they failed to be socialized to the common morality. If they were practicing Christians, who had given their lives to Christ, they would not be in prison. QED. At least, that is the common view in penology and corrections.
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        • Posted by $ brd76 10 years, 5 months ago
          "For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors—between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents here on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and the good is to live it."
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
            False choice. My religion, for one, does not say that my life belongs to God. I was created with free will. If my life belonged to God, I would have no choices.
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  • Posted by livefreely 10 years, 5 months ago
    Why are you on a conservative website but reading Salon? That is suspicious are you spying on Salon?
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
      Why would you consider this a conservative web-site?
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      • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 5 months ago
        re: Robbie53024,

        Re: Your comment to livefreely.

        I too consider this as a conservative website because Ayn Rand's philosophy is about the individual providing for himself and in the process being creative with their lives. It is liberalism that leads to fascism. True conservatism leads to economic and personal freedoms.

        Fred Speckmann
        commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
          Fred: If you check the Home and About pages, you will see that this site is principally devoted to promoting the movies. Those movies (and the book on which they are based) certainly supports Objectivism, Conservatism, and Libertarianism - but I would not consider it a site specifically in any of those veins. I've been to O sites, as well as C and L sites. They tend to be very narrow in their perspectives - you either are an acolyte, or you are a troll. There tends to be little in the way of intellectually honest and challenging thought on those sites.

          Those who participate in this site are more conservative and libertarian because those are traits that those who support the movies value and to which they adhere. There are also many O's here, but it seems they are not the majority (even though every new one seemingly gets on the site and starts screaming about why non-O thoughts are being discussed - most of them don't last here long).

          I appreciate your comment, and agree that libertarian thought (with conservatism being the first step) is required to turn this nation back around to the greatness that it once was.
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  • Posted by LionelHutz 10 years, 5 months ago
    To summarize the author: Religion is what is keeping the South from voting Democrat. That's the "destructiveness". If they'd only vote Democrat, we'd avoid all the destruction down there. What destruction? Poverty. Poverty=destruction.
    What does this have to do with 53% of Americans thinking that morality requires belief in God? He doesn't come right out and say it, but I have to conclude he's saying the Democrat party is filled with atheists.
    Great post, Maph. I needed a good chuckle and you came through.
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    • Posted by TheOldMan 10 years, 5 months ago
      IIRC, Jim Crow laws, the KKK, governors standing on school building steps to prevent blacks from entering, and other such things all occurred when the South was dominated by Democratic Party politicians. Hmmm, probably not the connection the author wants readers to remember, chuckle.
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  • Posted by $ brd76 10 years, 5 months ago
    "For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors—between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents here on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and the good is to live it." Ayn Rand
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  • Posted by Fountainhead24 10 years, 5 months ago
    "Majorities in all highly developed countries do not think belief in god to be necessary for morality, with one exception only: the USA."

    Do we Americans really believe that "it is necessary to believe in God in order to be a moral person?" How ignorant!
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 10 years, 5 months ago
    My husband and I were born and raised in the north but have lived and worked all over the country.

    There is a peculiar difference between the work ethic of those of us in the upper Midwest vs. the overwhelming work ethic of the folks in the South. It is comparable to the difference between Germans and Greeks. In a colder climate you have very little time to store up the fruits of your labors (farming) in order to prepare for winter. In the south, much like in Greece and Italy, the attitude toward work is "tomorrow is another day and the work will still be here then". Because of the long growing season and the heat of summer there is a tendency to "take it easy" and rightfully so. Heat stroke comes easily with overexertion.

    The "fact" that the South is "religious" has nothing to do with lack of wealth ... it has to do with their work ethic. Sometimes fishing is just more important than working.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years, 5 months ago
    Most religious people I've known don't make a point of waving their belief in your face. I can't say the same for the Atheists I've been acquainted with, as nearly all of them have been downright militant, angry people determined to declare religious people as ignorant, prejudiced boobs.

    Of course when I tell an Atheist he is a proponent of a secular form of religion, a blown emotional gasket is quick to follow. Religion is a belief system with no factual foundation, so those on both sides of the question of the existence of a supernatural deity are followers. Only Agnostics are truly areligious, and those few I've met usually don't care if their religious associates practice their favorite rituals. I've never heard of an Agnostic behind any of the lawsuits aimed at suppressing religious practices, whereas Atheists almost always are.

    I'm a Deist, based on personal experience. I have little tolerance for most organized religions, but so long as they don't impede my life practices the practitioners of those religions should be free to believe as they choose.
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  • Posted by Maxpaynya 10 years, 5 months ago
    It is also interesting to note the restrictions on business and persons liberties in the countries that believe less in the connection between religion and morality.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 5 months ago
    The problem with being a declared atheist in the USA is that you are immediately written off as someone not worthy of being listened to. No matter how well reasoned your argument or your proposal, you are categorized as: "Oh him, he's an atheist." Of course if your product or invention or service turns out to be needed, first class, better than anyone else's, then, atheism becomes less important except to the very religious.
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    • Posted by Technocracy 10 years, 5 months ago
      Same thing applies in reverse.

      Many atheists assume believers are not worth listening to either.

      Both sides do it.


      Atheists in my experience tend to be far more "prickly" over their "beliefs" than people of faith tend to be.

      You mileage may vary.

      I put "beliefs" in quotes above because I can not think of a word that better applies.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 5 months ago
        The "prickly" atheists, just like the "prickly" religionists are in the great minority. I have no data, but I'd be willing to guess 10% certainly less than 15%. They sling the mud, but everyone gets dirty. However, "atheist" is almost always treated like a swear word, where as religion is almost always given respect. That is due, of course, to thousands of years of conditioning, carried down from the shamans of the past to the priests of today. While Rand's philosophy will work for both people of faith and people of no faith, belief in religion qua religion negates much of her ideas.
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      • Posted by $ brd76 10 years, 5 months ago
        Pluck at a premise of faith in either god or government and see just how "prickly" those of faith in either respond. It's astounding how angry and vile a reaction I can create in either direction with a few simple questions. Give me five minutes or less in person and I'll have them squirming in their seats, calling me names, or wishing they had a gun. So yes, my mileage is varied and from our proverbial boxes of classification we are supposed to bicker and fight while the left and the right deny further our right to think, create, and innovate. So if you like your box that's fine by me but it's also not ever going to stop me from finding the truth and seeking answers. Answers that none of faith have ever been able to satisfy based on my own personal logic and reason. My morals are based on nature and survival without causing harm or violating my integrity. I only have trust in others who prove to me that they are of like mind in that regard, regardless of their ritual behavior or faith otherwise.
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        • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 5 months ago
          As I indicated, the vast majority couldn't care less, until some militant group on either side does something to stir things up. Personally, I am a non-militant agnostic. Formal religion, to me, seems irrational and is the cause, often, of the very things it claims to want to cure. The only reason that I'm not a total atheist is that science has way too many unanswered questions, especially in the quantum world.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
      I believe that you're wrong, Herb. It would only be relevant when the individual brings up the fact that they are atheist - and that usually only happens in order to denigrate the views of another. At that point, they lose their own credibility.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 5 months ago
        What you write is true in the circumstances you posit. Perhaps, you've not participated in as many religion vs non-religion as I have. In any case, it really doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned so long as you are rational in dealing with your fellow man and do not impede my forward progress.
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    • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 5 months ago
      Re: Herb7734,

      I'm afraid you are projecting what you believe to be true upon people of faith. While I don't doubt that there are Christians who believe as you suggest, most Christians while disagreeing with the choice that atheists have made, would not immediately dismiss their opinions on other matters.

      Fred Speckmann
      commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 5 months ago
        As I put forth, that perhaps 10 to 15% feel that way. Most Christians and Jews usually don't think about atheism until the atheists do something stupid like removing the 10 Commandments from a public place. Likewise, I rarely have heard the word atheist spoken without disdain.
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  • Posted by JAL64 10 years, 5 months ago
    I can believe that atheists are correct in that one does not have to believe in God or a god to be an ethical person. Having said that I also believe that what we call "ethics" are derived from a societal belief in the teachings of a higher being, God, Allah, Budda, whatever. One can say that they do not believe in a god but their personal ethics are surely derived from what they learn about co-existing within that society.
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    • Posted by $ puzzlelady 10 years, 5 months ago
      Objective, rational ethics came first, since they do provide for co-existing in society. These then were latched onto by religious and legal authorities to muscle them into public use and aggrandize their own powers. In time those beliefs devolved into indoctrinations detached from reality.

      Ethical and moral principles do not require sectarian enforcement. Positing an invisible bigger chief than the earthly rulers was just a clever ruse to make people obey (for their own good, of course).
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      • Posted by JAL64 10 years, 5 months ago
        This could come down to a "chicken or egg" debate. I choose to believe that in antiquity, social ethics were derived from belief in a higher being. The "objective, rational" ethics of which you speak are nothing more than self preservation behaviors that avoid being bonked on the head by someone you otherwise might have screwed..
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        • Posted by $ puzzlelady 10 years, 5 months ago
          "Choosing to believe" is the key word. It is the ultimate wildcard of human cognition. Since there is no higher being, the mind manufactures that concept out of thin air, without evidence. Self-preservation through mutual respect and interaction for mutual benefit is both the ideal and the practical. "Nothing more than self-preservation" is like saying the life is nothing more than the ultimate value. Just a mere trinket...
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          • Posted by JAL64 10 years, 5 months ago
            Thoughts on "choosing to believe": since you cannot actually prove that "...there is no higher being", it is obvious that you yourself have chosen to believe in non-existence. Yes, I know, I cannot prove that one (or more) does exist.

            Thoughts on "proof": does the fact that there is no incontrovertible proof of the existence of higher beings constitute proof that He/She/They do not exist? The dustbin of history is filled with "proof" of this and that where later discovery and illumination has rendered those proofs false.

            My choice of wording "I choose to believe" is based on my informed, voluntary choice to believe the scientific evidence. There is much proof derived from studies of anthropology that the evolution of ethical behaviors in primitive societies around the world was based on THEIR belief in higher beings. The fact that YOU choose not to believe has no bearing on THEIR belief systems and the social behaviors that evolved from that belief.
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            • Posted by amhunt 10 years, 5 months ago
              And prior to those "... primitive societies ..."? Did they get together to better protect themselves because they believed in a god?
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              • Posted by JAL64 10 years, 5 months ago
                My definition of "primitive" societies include those that predate Greco/Roman mythology by thousands of years. It includes those of today's world that reside in the tropical rainforests of South America and southern Asia who have only recently come to the attention of our own "enlightened" viewpoints. Who knows "why" they came to live in groups without killing each other. Certainly NOBODY can say for certain their belief systems had nothing to do with that decision.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
        History does not bear that out. Until Judaism, most all supreme powers were interested more in themselves and their equals and had little to do with the mere humans. The humans would beg and plead for intercessions and only rarely would their gods comply. They were petty, petulant, and self-absorbed and had little interest in mankind.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
    Correlation does not equal causation. And in this case, it clearly shows that the US and China counter the assertion.
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  • Posted by Notperfect 10 years, 5 months ago
    I also went back and read where the south should save itself from itself. Sounds like some who consider themselves more intelligent really have the answer especially when trying to fix America's problems. That quote stands out and really has worked. No deficit, no unemployment, no diseases all is a utopia and nothing but gold and silver pour from everyone's pockets. And I have some land in Arizona you should consider. Faith is all that is needed. As a grain of Mustard seed. The smallest seed there is, but grows to one of the largest plants on earth. Some will agree some not. That was given to you at birth a conscience. Right from wrong wrong from right. A choice. If that choice I made a few years back is wrong then it is mine and only mine. I was told to just tell you the truth about a man that lived over 2000 years ago that knew you before you were born. I do not think I have harmed anyone or have put to death anyone in what I have quoted. An atheist only quotes there is no God. I believe that quote blows itself out of the water. If the atheist even mentions there is no God then he is just blinded to the fact of that belief. Only God can change his belief not me or 50% or 99% of people of faith. It is a choice. I believe God has used Ayn Rand to help us here in the Gulch to understand what truth is. Why? So people like me will understand truth.
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  • Posted by FlukeMan2 10 years, 5 months ago
    I'm a Latter-day Saint (as Maphesdus, our resident ex/anti-Mormon, knows) and if I were asked whether "belief in God is essential to morality," then I would answer no. I know that atheists can be moral and that theist can be immoral. I was an atheist once and still have an over all respect for atheist belief.

    I wonder what CJ Werleman would say, if he were asked whether rejecting belief in God is essential to morality. Judging by the articles he writes (http://www.salon.com/writer/cj_werleman/...). I'd guess that he regards belief in God as fundamentally immoral.
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  • Posted by BrettScott 10 years, 5 months ago
    Some surveys conclude that Christians are happier than non-Christians. Does this mean that Christianity makes people happier than wealth?
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    • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 5 months ago
      To answer that, you'd have to go into the meaning of happiness and the generation of such. People usually don't find happiness in material goods or the acquisition of such. People on their death beds are never complaining about how much money they didn't make, but rather on the friendships they soured, the people they harmed, etc. - i.e. the happiness they chose to forego in favor of something else. Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" resonates with many.

      As to the source of happiness, there are going to be lots of opinions...
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
    I think that the study more clearly shows that those going to prison find religion. Perhaps as a guilt response to their transgressions, but more likely as a mechanism to beg protection.
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