Cato Paper: Work vs. Welfare Project - Galt's Gulch

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Cato Paper: Work vs. Welfare Project

Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago to Economics

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here's the beef

SOURCE URL: http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/work-versus-welfare-trade

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Posted by LionelHutz 11 years, 4 months ago

Best lines: If one compares the wage-equivalent value of welfare to median work-related income, welfare actually pays better in eight states, and nearly as well in numerous other states. Indeed, in 11 states, welfare pays more than the average pre-tax first year wage for a teacher. In 39 states it pays more than the starting wage for a secretary. And, in the three most generous states, a person on welfare can take home more money than an entry-level computer programmer.

Random thoughts: I am surprised at Illinois' position in the charts. This is the first paper I've ever read that contains a "Prebuttal"

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Posted by MikeMarotta 11 years, 4 months ago

A close look at the numbers falsifies the assertion that people from Mexico come here just for the welfare.

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  Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago
  
  You could well be right, but numbers did you compare in the study? are you looking at overall participation to qualifying numbers for states known for high populations for illegal immigrants? Because that would require bringing in outside data to support.
  anecdotal, I participated on many committees for the local food bank operation for a number of years. It was determined that illegals did not participate in programs which required signing up for them, regardless of ease. However, they did participate across the board for incentives and free food/medical clinics/dental/ etc.
  
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    Posted by MikeMarotta 11 years, 4 months ago
    
    Well if you look at gross benefits, they should all just run north and make Massachusetts and DC their new homes. Given that food for dependent children is truly more important, that explains the choices for Arizona and California. Even Texas - which mostly sucks for welfare - does dole out a bit more for WIC and SNAP.
    
    Mostly, I conjecture that immigrants go to wherever they have family and friends in place. It is community that draws them to one state or another, not a calculating market preference for more welfare.
    
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      Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago
      
      agreed
      
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        Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        I meant to add, even in the US, one has to be fairly savvy to know the numbers. We make generalizations (most in the population get) Cali, DC, MASS, etc. but ease and initial housing, etc. there are more barriers the farther away from the border you get.
        
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        Posted by Rocky_Road 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        Plus...the Rio Grande doesn't get very near to the Northern states mentioned.
        
        They are 'visiting', and mostly on foot.
        
        Their enclaves have all the information that they need to game the system, and too many cities in the West have declared themselves "Safe Zones" for illegal immigrants.
        
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        Posted by MikeMarotta 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        Well, if they did not clean the restrooms in our office buildings and make the beds in our motels, who would? You??
        
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        Posted by Rocky_Road 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        These jobs (the jobs that Americans wouldn't do) were all done by Americans before all of this.
        
        That includes fruit picking...remember the Oakies that swamped California looking to pick crops during the Depression, and Dust Bowl?
        
        I have cleaned my share of bathrooms in boot camp, and peeled potatoes for thousands of soldiers also.
        
        Lionel beat me to it...but don't claim that Americans won't do jobs that have been taken by undocumented 'visitors'. They were doing them first.
        
        Are you too proud to get your hands dirty?
        
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        Posted by LionelHutz 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        Yep - if I needed a job and it was the best one offered to me. You sound a bit like Bush 43 saying we need to clear a path for illegal immigrants because they're doing jobs "Americans WON'T do".
        
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        Posted by MikeMarotta 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        Lionel and Rocky you are failing to integrate the facts. Americans are eligible for welfare. They do not need to clean restrooms.
        
        Anecdotally, I work weekends as a security guard. (My degrees are in criminology.) My peers might be anglos or hispanics or blacks, but when we sign in the cleaners they are always hispanics. I have never since 2002 seen a mixed ethnic janitorial crew, except as by their accents, some are from southern Mexico and others from northern Mexico. Typically, they work two part-time jobs, five hours in the morning and five hours at night. I have nothing but respect for them and I welcome them.
        
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        Posted by LionelHutz 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        Well, I think you just restated the issue. It's not that these are jobs that Americans won't do then, is it? It's that the government has created a system where it is to their economic advantage not to work some jobs. And yes - some of us are raised better than to fall for this garbage and would take any job rather than the welfare.
        
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        Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        this is anecdotal. I have been at least 5 office buildings, hired cleaners at one, and they have all been entrepreneurs. None, coincidentally, Hispanic. These buildings are in a SW state, major city. While I appreciate your point, I also want to stipulate there are plenty of US citizens who run janitorial services. They are proud business owners and they are NOT Hispanic. That said, I live in a country that absolutely is vigilant about illegal workers. It is not the US
        
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        Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago
        
        I want to point out that the study concluded that the highest tax burden was on the individual (family) that moved from welfare(untaxed) into work (taxed). This isn't lazy , this is not stupid at some point. This is not an irrational, it is not illegal, and leaves the lowest income earners feeling as though to be moral, they must punish themselves. upside down. Idaho has it right. lol
        
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