Did Rand believe in Romantic Loyalty?

Posted by FlashGordon 11 years, 3 months ago to Culture
119 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

If you read Rand's novels her female heroine's always seem to just move on to a better man if one appears. In fact I thought of renaming Atlas Shrugged to "Who's Hank Rearden" because she just seems to forget about Hank when she meets John Galt. So did Rand believe if you meet someone "better" and they're interested in you, you just move on? I know she got upset with N. Branden when he picked someone else (we're all human). So those that study Rand more seriously than me, did she believe in marriage (ignore the question of children for the moment) or other forms of romantic committment?


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by Lanatomia 11 years, 3 months ago
    Please take the apostrophe out of "heroine's" because it is plural.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ Tap2Golf 11 years, 3 months ago
      Oh my! Comments are done-I think-mostly on the fly. We all make a typo or sp error occasionally. I can't find it. Did it really detract from the point? Or maybe you were joking? I saw a reply somewhere earlier today...English teacher?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by marc85901 11 years, 3 months ago
    I wish Dagny would show more loyalty to a current significant other. I am a true believer in romantic love; live without love is a cold and lonely placeā€”as I know from firsthand knowledge.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Lucky 11 years, 3 months ago
    Dagny and Hank. There was no contract or understanding in any form. Hank had a contract but it was broken by his wife's behavior.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago
      Exactly what did she do to break the contract of their wedding vows?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Lucky 11 years, 3 months ago
        1. The sexual relationship had ended.
        2. She sneered at his work on which she lived.
        3. The partnership implied by marriage had barely existed,
        take this as grounds for annulment rather than divorce perhaps.
        Marriage is a contact, in romantic love, where it is two way, what is offered and exchanged is recognition of values and support for if not active participation in each others chosen life efforts. In this Hank, a straightforward man, made a bad choice, Lilian was simply an exploiter. Old school readers of AS would expect to read how Hank (and Francisco) land on their feet and find women worthy. But AS is the story of the lead woman, not surprisingly.
        In AS, compare this with the marriage of Ragnar and (sorry forgot the name). She may not have taken part in or planned the raids or even approve. She would have given support to Ragnar and certainly would not have sneered. Ragnar's values were admired/loved. Lilian only loved Hank's money. There was no marriage. Clearly annulment is applicable.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
        • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago
          Which part of the contract specifies sex?
          There *is* a part in the contract: "for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health", then that part about "...'til death do us part".

          I'm glad to know that I can feel free to violate any contract I sign because, in my opinion, the other signer(s) of the contract aren't fulfilling their part of it.

          It might be grounds for divorce or annulment. But it's not grounds for arbitrarily violating the contract because his organ gets hard for another woman.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by Lucky 11 years, 3 months ago
            Hiraghm, I see you have a conservative viewpoint which has merits, yes I agree contracts and commitments are important tho' not being a conservative I see the story differently.
            We may differ on whether a contract agreed on false assumptions is valid. In this case, Hank was naive, Lillian was a gold digger who mislead about intentions. If I take the position of judge, which I do, there was no contract.
            "for better for worse," but for who, or for what? The words are for the couple not the individual. It got worse, but not for them both as a couple, one person inflicted humiliation on the other, made no contribution but only took. To argue otherwise is to say that allowing unexpected degradation to oneself is part of that contract. A conservative may say ok, I do not.
            Sex in marriage- an implicit part of that contract, a contract to be legal does not have to be written. I understand that in the Catholic church withdrawal is grounds for annulment, the wider society and law would concur.
            Some religions have a stricter view than that, is it the Mormons? There is no divorce, no annulment and no remarriage, ever. I take your second sentence as almost supporting that view short of recognizing death as ending the contract.
            A contract can be between unequal persons, say one rich, one poor. There again assumptions are needed as to what each must do to fulfill their bargain. In this story, Hank may not have performed well, but he could, (he was rejected as a man in all that means). Lilian would not fulfill expectations except in trivia. Therefore contract void.
            In AS, Rand gives us another example of a marriage that failed. Cheryl Brooks entered with fine intentions and views but unfortunately with limited information. James Taggert had no intentions, no views, a complete contradiction of Rand's view of romantic love. Should Cheryl have held on despite being misled? Was it her fault as she did not think hard enough before signing? Should she have accepted the role of a dish-rag? What she actually did after the real James was revealed was a tragedy as she again did not think it thru. A more logical even if not stronger person would have torn up that worthless contract.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 3 months ago
    I forgot about her abandoning Hank. She didn't care that he was married, although that could be been b/c his wife was so annoying.

    I'm interested in what other Rand readers say.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by trico827 11 years, 3 months ago
      Barbara Brandon believed that the character of Lillian Reardon was an expression of the resentment A.R. felt for her own mother. As an evil woman, she did not deserve Hank's love, thus providing a "philosophical annulment" to the Readons' marriage and therefore justifying Hank's infidelity.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago
      Are you familiar with the concept of "polyamory"? Serial monogamy is common. In fact, it is lifelong monogamy that seems rare. Some facts and figures might provide some context. Beyond that, the questions that matter are about your values, your life, your standards, and your happiness.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 3 months ago
        My wife and I first heard about it about six years ago in UU church service calling for acceptance of polyamory. (We are in Madison, WI.) We laughed that we'll accept it as our grandparents homosexuality, always a little awkwardly. Our kids, now 3 and 5, or their kids may accept it as a fact of life.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by lrbeggs 11 years, 3 months ago
    I have pondered this same question myself on occasion. I have concluded that Dagny's early relationships were imperfect and would not therefore have lasted even without the appearance of John Galt. My two cents...
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo