Does Entrapment Really Make Good People Do Bad Things?

Posted by freedomforall 8 years ago to Philosophy
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Excerpt:
"Let's look at the federal side of it. Due to the rules they've put into place, undercover work and entrapment are bread and butter for their investigations. You can complain about it, rail against it, point out the shady nature of it but hey, that's the game. The choices are simple: 1) play the game, 2) change the game, or 3) refuse to be part of the game. That's it. You don't get to dictate the terms, the players' actions, or the ways that the rules change after you start playing. You definitely don't get to stop the game if your opponent starts cheating---and they do cheat in every way possible. So your only options are to play with the current rules, change the game on them, or not even get involved.

If you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. "
SOURCE URL: https://steemit.com/liberty/@audax0/does-entrapment-really-make-good-people-do-bad-things


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  • Posted by $ jdg 8 years ago
    The true corruption is to have accepted the government's word that whatever behavior it outlaws is automatically wrong. Once you have taken that step, you can be led into such evils as convicting the innocent on some judge's say-so.

    The government knows no moral restraints. We must know none in defending our freedom against their actions.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years ago
    Don't be an entrapment sucker.
    Your successful entrapment and perhaps lifelong ruination is but a feather in some government worker's war bonnet. You are his step closer to a raise and/or even promotion.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years ago
    An honest, law-abiding citizen cannot be a victim of entrapment. That being said, it is not true in our society. Because of the lack of morality on both sides of the so-called entrapment everything becomes an amorphous blob of right and wrong. Those using entrapment are supposed to be the good guys. But because of thousands of laws and regulations, many of them contradicting one another, anyone can be outside the law for any reason since black and white are both reflected in the morass of a no longer functioning judicial system.
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    • Posted by term2 8 years ago
      Getting convicted of violating one or more of their laws is insanely easy. Most of the laws are over reaching, impossible to actually understand, and contain generalities about what is forbidden instead of specifics.

      Conviction seems to be based on how things "look" more than what actually happened also. Government people are expert at making things look bad- example if you are carrying $15k in cash when you fly. They make it look like you made the money in some illegal activity.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 8 years ago
        Most leftist laws and regulations are all about emotions. How it looks or how it "feels." It doesn't have to work so long as it makes you feel good, or is a "shining example."
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        • Posted by term2 8 years ago
          Thats one of the things that lets Hillary have so much support. They "want" her, instead of looking at what she would actually DO as president
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          • Posted by 8 years ago
            You got it. The women that vote for Hitlery are irrational sexists who believe that feelings are more important than reason. Statists in America have been taking advantage of that weakness since 1920 and they always will. That was a primary reason for election of Bill Clinton and Obama.
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            • Posted by term2 8 years ago
              damn, we agree on something !!! its pretty obvious that there arent any other reasons that explain the attraction to Hillary as well as this does.

              Very scary prognosis for the country. How would we ever get control over the excesses of government with a majority of the citizens thinking like this.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 8 years ago
            Also, it is unfortunate that many women are blinded by "women issues" such as abortion. They have been fighting about that and other feminist issues for so long that they have blinded themselves to any negative baggage Hillary carries, and there surely is lots of it.
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years ago
    "You cannot cheat an honest man."

    "There's a sucker born every minute." -- P. T. Barnum

    "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." -- Abraham Lincoln

    People can be made to do things against their own better judgment or will through emotional manipulation, guilt, blackmail, the promise of something for nothing, or even misplaced good intentions. At the extreme it will cost them their lives, as with martyrs for a cause. Why can't people remember to "just say no"?
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    • Posted by 8 years ago
      Good question, puzzlelady.
      I told a few friends that I thought everyone could be corrupted, given the proper motivation. One of them, a barrister, said he couldn't be. I asked how he would respond if someone with power and connections asked him for a less than legal favor and simultaneously "offered" to help his daughter's career, and could also blackball that daughter if he refused to provide the favor. He didn't answer.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV...
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years ago
    Our government has succeeded in creating such a web of laws that it's difficult for anyone not to break one or more nearly every day, or be vulnerable to being entrapped into a violation. With the increasing pressure of a flood of regulations, fear of terrorism, and unrealistic demands for a delusional "pure" environment from an army of special interests, the temptation to use entrapment is growing stronger.

    The Ruby Ridge incident was a classic case, with the BATF and FBI badgering a gunsmith into making a shotgun barrel that was short enough to be changed into a "sawed off" configuration. The tragic fiasco that followed, with the deaths of an agent and an innocent young mother was the result of this stupidity.

    Entrapment often involves a friend or relative who's been threatened with legal action by a government agency, and are forced to cooperate in the entrapment. Money laundering by complex transactions may not be obviously illegal to the entrapped party, as one example.

    While the target of entrapment is usually already a person with an inclination toward illegal activity, it is possible to entrap people with good intentions.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 8 years ago
    Randy Weaver (of Ruby Ridge fame) fell for an entrapment scheme to keep his family from starving. Going down that path cost him the lives of his wife and son, though he was, eventually, acquitted of all charges. So...was it entrapment, or something else and how does one tell the difference?
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  • Posted by Temlakos 8 years ago
    What constitutes entrapment? If the subject actively looks for help to do a bad thing, does decoying him really constitute entrapment?
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    • Posted by strugatsky 8 years ago
      Yes, decoying does constitute entrapment. If a drug addict is seeking drugs and you provide them, you are guilty of pushing drugs. The law is quite clear on that, except, of course, when it is the law that is breaking the law.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
    I think it's awful we pay people to try to convince people to commit crimes.

    This article seems to be written from the perspective of someone involved with groups who think some kind of violent direct action against the gov't is a good idea. That's so far from my world. I actually forget such people really exist. I can kind of put myself in the author's mindset though by thinking he just has a very different threshold line between what constitutes light and transient causes and what is a long train of abuses. To me we're not even close, esp when we account for all the things that have gotten better for liberty against things that have gotten worse. From my point of view violent action is just crazy talk. It's a weird glimpse into another world.
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    • Posted by 8 years ago
      Violent action is not suggested in the article, CG. In fact the author explains that violent action would be counter-productive and that people must think for themselves and NOT be goaded into such action by unethical agents of the state (or anyone else.)
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      • Posted by term2 8 years ago
        As to violating laws, I really do make my own decisions and would never listed to someone else trying to get me to violate some law. That said, I am perfectly capable of figuring out if its worth it, or morally justified, to violate a law.
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        • Posted by strugatsky 8 years ago
          Unless you have a team of lawyers to guide you, not all laws are clear and not all violations are obvious. When an agent of the government, using his authority, tells you or suggests to you to do something, you may very well assume that it is legal. However, agents of the government are legally allowed to lie and get you entrapped.
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          • Posted by term2 8 years ago
            At this point, I dont trust any governmental agency or employee to be in MY best interest. I am forced to basically ignore them and figure it out on my own.
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            • Posted by strugatsky 8 years ago
              Unfortunately, that is now the flavor of America. The government of the people for the people is as real as the democratic republic of North Korea. I do not have rose-colored glasses and I know that corruption existed ever since any government existed, but I do think that today's level of government corruption is unprecedented in American history. So much more the reason for the government to entrap citizens because, as we all know, the government hates competition.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
        Yes. Maybe the article is talking about people who would not think of violent action unless someone goaded them into it when they're already in an upset state.

        Gov't should get out of the business of encouraging crime.
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        • Posted by term2 8 years ago
          Good example is soliciting prostitution for the purpose of trapping someone into violating their "law". There shouldnt be anything wrong with prostitution or drug smuggling, selling, or using in the first place.,
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
            Yes. It's hard enough to prevent suppliers from appearing to serve customers' needs without the gov't actually encouraging it and then prosecuting people for it.
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            • Posted by term2 8 years ago
              I never quite got the idea that we are a "free country", yet we put a higher percentage of people in jail than anywhere else. Maybe its that we are free to do what the government says is ok, but totally unfree to do anything else (except of course if you are the Clintons)
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
                It's like when you go into a company that carries on about "we're all team players here," you can be bet there's probably a lot of infighting going on.
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                • Posted by term2 8 years ago
                  I guess in this culture at this time, hidden agendas, emotional manipulation, and propaganda are king. Its like we are living in a "survivor" real world where what one gets is always taken from another.
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
                    "a "survivor" real world where what one gets is always taken from another."
                    This has been a sad fact of life throughout human history until the industrial revolution. I think this is why the world's religion say interest is evil and good people share. They were written in a time when people couldn't conceive of someone borrowing money, creating a good return for the lender, good wealth for himself, and good/services for customers that wouldn't have existed otherwise. If history shows it takes a few hundred years for the economic, political, and moral values to catch up, that's not all that bad.
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                    • Posted by term2 8 years ago
                      I am suggesting that is the standard way of thinking of the masses today. I know in our business, we make things, sell them to customers, and they pay us. They get the goods, and we get money. Its a win win for everyone
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                      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
                        " I know in our business [...] its a win win for everyone"
                        I think you're saying too few people know where value comes from, and I'm saying too few people know, but more people know than in the past. I think it's a glass half empty / half full thing.
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